New four-volume comprehensive history of the Church to emerge next year

[Scott Lloyd]

I've not seen anything here on the board about this yet (pardon me if there has already been something) but I think it is fairly exciting news.

I've gotten an unusually high number of page views on my story so far, indicating there is keen interest.

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[Tacenda]

I posted it on another thread, haha! And I noticed it was an article written by you!

[Scott Lloyd]

2 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I posted it on another thread, haha! And I noticed it was an article written by you!

Touché.

I just got back yesterday from the Mormon HIstory Association conference in St. Louis (and a wonderful post-conference bus tour of Church historic sites in western Missouri conducted by Alex Baugh) so I've not given much attention to the board the past few days.

 

[Jeanne]

I am very interested in this..I love history anyway..happy that there will be access with no costs.  Anxious to find out all that is included and hope to visit the 185 years of women in the church. 

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Thank you Tacenda and Scott!

 

 

[JLHPROF]

I love how much data and history the Church is now making available.  This will be an excellent resource.

I will still love the original History of the Church for the record of Joseph and his scribes.

[Scott Lloyd]

It is clear to me that the Church is earnestly trying to make the new history as accessible as possible: eighth- or ninth-grade reading level, published in an inexpensive paperback binding and for free online, links to further information. It is as though it is designed to leave everyone without reasonable excuse for being unaware of things that many people have said they were blind-sided by: Joseph Smith's practice of plural marriage, his use of the seer stone, his early penchant for treasure hunting, etc.

[cinepro]

I haven't read the article, but I hope Elder Lund was involved with this.  His seminal research on the Steed family was no doubt a precursor to this effort.

[Scott Lloyd]

15 minutes ago, cinepro said:

I haven't read the article, but I hope Elder Lund was involved with this.  His seminal research on the Steed family was no doubt a precursor to this effort.

I was going to mention that another intent in the design may have been to make the new four-volume work more accessible to those who rely on The Work and the Glory for their knowledge of Church history and up to now would not trouble themselves to open a work of non-fiction.

[cinepro]

Reminds me of this classic from years ago:

Quote

Scripture-Quality Edition of Work and the Glory to Be Released By Chris Giauque

SALT LAKE CITY—On the heels of Elder Gerald N. Lund’s call to the Quorum of the Seventy this past April, this week Deseret Book announced they will re-release his wildly popular Work and the Glory series in scripture-quality editions. These editions will feature black or brown leather covers, gilt edges, extensive cross-referencing, ribbon bookmarks, chapter index tabs, and a two-column chapter/verse format. Also planned is a line of carrying cases designed to be worn as backpacks that will hold all ten volumes of the series and still have enough room for a quadruple combination. Deseret Book officials declined to comment on rumored plans for a tetradecauple combination. “We are merely attempting to make this landmark series more accessible to the LDS public by putting it into a format they are already used to reading,” said Deseret Book spokesman Mark White. “We are in no way attempting to campaign for the series to be declared a part of the standard works to boost sales. Really…we promise.” Despite this assurance, however, rumors of the series’ imminent canonization have already begun to spread. “Omigosh!” said local Beehive Mandi Meecham. “When I heard the news, I was like so excited I couldn’t even believe it! I’ve heard those books are like so totally spiritual! I mean, I couldn’t get all the way through the first book because it was so long, but I know my friend Britni’s mother read them, and they like totally helped her testimony, you know? It’s so cool they’re finally going to be scriptures now!” Further fueling the rumors is the fact that Lund’s second series, The Kingdom and the Crown, has now been renamed The Kingdom and the Crown: Another Witness of Elder Gerald N. Lund.

 

[JulieM]

23 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I was going to mention that another intent in the design may have been to make the new four-volume work more accessible to those who rely on The Work and the Glory for their knowledge of Church history and up to now would not trouble themselves to open a work of non-fiction.

From your article:

"We have a team in our department working very hard to complete a four-volume history of the Church entitled Saints. It will be written in a style similar to James Michener or David McCullough.”

Are they going to be novels (stories involving fictional characters to relate factual events) or serious histories?   It's interesting they will be written for the level of 14-16 year old teens.

Who is writing them, do you know?  

Edited June 8, 2017 by JulieM

[Johnnie Cake]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I've not seen anything here on the board about this yet (pardon me if there has already been something) but I think it is fairly exciting news.

I've gotten an unusually high number of page views on my story so far, indicating there is keen interest.

 

I did read your DesNews article on this subject however...

[rpn]

Well I hope they are getting in touch with Margaret Young and Darius Gray, and the woman who is writting a thesis to be published next year on history of blacks in the church, so that they will be thoroughly covered.   It would be important that wards always represent Green Flake in their pioneer day celebrations, and understand Jane Manning James walking (because the ship captain wouldn't honor her ticket) from Boston to Nauvoo because of her faith.

Edited June 8, 2017 by rpn

[clarkgoble]

6 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I've not seen anything here on the board about this yet (pardon me if there has already been something) but I think it is fairly exciting news.

I've gotten an unusually high number of page views on my story so far, indicating there is keen interest.

I'm really excited about it. I can't wait. Sounds like a warts and all history ala the Church's Mountain Meadows Massacre book but informed by all the Joseph Smith Papers work. I was surprised at how it's coming all the way up to the future.

[clarkgoble]

3 hours ago, rpn said:

Well I hope they are getting in touch with Margaret Young and Darius Gray, and the woman who is writting a thesis to be published next year on history of blacks in the church, so that that are will be thoroughly covered.   It would be important that wards always represent Green Flake in their pioneer day celebrations, and understand Jane Manning James walking (because the ship captain wouldn't honor her ticket) from Boston to Nauvoo because of her faith.

Also those people doing the close studies of the short hand of Brigham Young's sermons. I recall their saying that the report of Brigham's infamous speech at the legislature on blacks ends up being pretty misunderstood. There's a lot of very interesting research coming out over the next few years. I think getting a lot of the information out about some our mistakes in racial issues is important. Not just with blacks, but the shabby way that a lot of Polynesian immigrants were treated when they arrived in Utah as well as other issues. I've noticed there's a lot of myths out there that maybe blacks were treated poorly but others were treated great. But that's not true. We should own our own history, warts and all. 

[Scott Lloyd]

8 hours ago, JulieM said:

From your article:

"We have a team in our department working very hard to complete a four-volume history of the Church entitled Saints. It will be written in a style similar to James Michener or David McCullough.”

Are they going to be novels (stories involving fictional characters to relate factual events) or serious histories?   It's interesting they will be written for the level of 14-16 year old teens.

Who is writing them, do you know?  

It will be serious history, not fiction. David McCullough, as far as I know, doesn't write fiction. 

And Elder Snow didn't say it would be targeted to teens. He was speaking of reading difficulty level. I'm guessing one drawback of B. H. Roberts' history may have been that some found it too difficult to understand readily, so they never read it and thus remained uninformed of some things in Church history, then later complained they were blindsided. 

Edited June 8, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

5 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

I'm really excited about it. I can't wait. Sounds like a warts and all history ala the Church's Mountain Meadows Massacre book but informed by all the Joseph Smith Papers work. I was surprised at how it's coming all the way up to the future.

Speaking of Mountain Meadows, I saw Rick Turley at the airport gate en route to St Louis. I asked him if he is still doing a sequel to Massacre at Mountain Meadows. He said it is in the proofing stage now and should be appearing shortly. Said it will cover the trials. There will be an appendix that tells what eventually happened to the perpetrators. 

ETA: Turley's first Mountain Meadows book was not Church-published, and I presume the sequel won't be either. Oxford University Press was the publisher. 

Edited June 8, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[HappyJackWagon]

14 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It is clear to me that the Church is earnestly trying to make the new history as accessible as possible: eighth- or ninth-grade reading level, published in an inexpensive paperback binding and for free online, links to further information. It is as though it is designed to leave everyone without reasonable excuse for being unaware of things that many people have said they were blind-sided by: Joseph Smith's practice of plural marriage, his use of the seer stone, his early penchant for treasure hunting, etc.

It's good to see that the church is making more information available. Hopefully it is a more complete and accurate reckoning of church history so all of those silly people who want to leave the church can no longer claim to be blind-sided be a changing narrative.

I simply want to point out that just because a more complete history will be out in 2018, and the essays were released over the past few years, people have been legitimately surprised (blind-sided) by the changing narrative of the church. I suspect there will be many more years of angst and confusion and faith crisis over these next years as people learn a more correct history and how the church teachings throughout their entire lives are proven to be inaccurate.

[JulieM]

5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It will be serious history, not fiction. David McCullough, as far as I know, doesn't write fiction. 

Yes I know, but Michener did (and that's why I asked since they named him too):

"James Albert Michener  was an American author of more than 40 books, most of which were fictional, lengthy family sagas covering the lives of many generations in particular geographic locales and incorporating solid history."

So, will these be historical novels told in story form?

I have to say that I am cautiously optimistic about these histories.  I will want to see how they deal with the details regarding Joseph's (and other's) polygamy and most specifically how inclusive they are with writing about the women involved in polygamy (Joseph's wives, etc.).  If they are transparent about those details, I'd be impressed.

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by JulieM

[Scott Lloyd]

54 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

It's good to see that the church is making more information available. Hopefully it is a more complete and accurate reckoning of church history so all of those silly people who want to leave the church can no longer claim to be blind-sided be a changing narrative.

I simply want to point out that just because a more complete history will be out in 2018, and the essays were released over the past few years, people have been legitimately surprised (blind-sided) by the changing narrative of the church. I suspect there will be many more years of angst and confusion and faith crisis over these next years as people learn a more correct history and how the church teachings throughout their entire lives are proven to be inaccurate.

In an age of widespread entitlement mentality and avid victimhood I suspect there will always be those who claim they were blindsided regardless of how transparent the Church gets with its history. 

Also, I note that Elder Snow said controversial points will be presented <in context> of the full story. I predict there will be some who won't like it that the context is given. 

[Scott Lloyd]

36 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Yes I know, but Michener did (and that's why I asked since they named him too):

"James Albert Michener  was an American author of more than 40 books, most of which were fictional, lengthy family sagas covering the lives of many generations in particular geographic locales and incorporating solid history."

So, will these be historical novels told in story form?

I have to say that I am cautiously optimistic about these histories.  I will want to see how they deal with the details regarding Joseph's (and other's) polygamy and most specifically how inclusive they are with writing about the women involved in polygamy (Joseph's wives, etc.).  If they are transparent about those details, I'd be impressed.

 

I took Elder Snow's comparison to Michener and McCullough to refer to prose style, not to indicate that the work would be a historical novel. Michener wrote many non-fiction books as well, as the Wikipedia entry you cited shows. Other than the mention of Michener's name, nothing in Elder Snow's quoted remarks leads to the reasonable conclusion that what the Church will be publishing is historical fiction. 

[stemelbow]

16 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

In an age of widespread entitlement mentality and avid victimhood I suspect there will always be those who claim they were blindsided regardless of how transparent the Church gets with its history. 

Beautifully stated...oh wait.  No....the opposite.  It's ridiculous to blame those who have been blindsided by information they were not aware of because they trusted what was taught them through the Church, for being blindsided. 

We are all hoping, I'm guessing, that the Church goes with a more honest narrative so these blindsides stop. 

This book is a good sounding step in the right direction. 

16 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Also, I note that Elder Snow said controversial points will be presented <in context> of the full story. I predict there will be some who won't like it that the context is given. 

There may be some to criticize this book for.  But we'll have to wait and see.  Hopefully it gets really well done. 

[stemelbow]

9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I took Elder Snow's comparison to Michener and McCullough to refer to prose style, not to indicate that the work would be a historical novel. Michener wrote many non-fiction books as well, as the Wikipedia entry you cited shows. Other than the mention of Michener's name, nothing in Elder Snow's quoted remarks leads to the reasonable conclusion that what the Church will be publishing is historical fiction. 

Breaking the status quo should work here.  Hopefully we don't get more historical fiction posed as history from the Church. 

[JulieM]

17 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I took Elder Snow's comparison to Michener and McCullough to refer to prose style, not to indicate that the work would be a historical novel. Michener wrote many non-fiction books as well, as the Wikipedia entry you cited shows. Other than the mention of Michener's name, nothing in Elder Snow's quoted remarks leads to the reasonable conclusion that what the Church will be publishing is historical fiction. 

Yes, hopefully they won't be this.  But that they are written at a 14-16 year old level of reading, it's going to be interesting to see how they'll cover serious historical details.  It does sound like they will be more novels in story form (for that age level of reading) but historically factual.

I'll be very interested to see what they contain when they're published.  I do like that they're going to be available online for free and that an attempt is being made (as with the essays) to be more transparent about church history.

Edited June 8, 2017 by JulieM

[Tacenda]

51 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

In an age of widespread entitlement mentality and avid victimhood I suspect there will always be those who claim they were blindsided regardless of how transparent the Church gets with its history. 

Also, I note that Elder Snow said controversial points will be presented <in context> of the full story. I predict there will be some who won't like it that the context is given. 

I don't like the wording you used, it seems harsh to those that are going through being blindsided or have been. Victimhood and entitlement, hum. Edited: What if you were robbed and the news said you felt entitled and you had a victimhood mentality? How would you feel? Being robbed doesn't even compare to what people that lose faith lose. They lose faith, and sometimes their families, and even their livelihoods. Tell me how they are supposed to feel now. 

Edited June 8, 2017 by Tacenda

[Scott Lloyd]

25 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Yes, hopefully they won't be this.  But that they are written at a 14-16 year old level of reading, it's going to be interesting to see how they'll cover serious historical details.  It does sound like they will be more novels in story form (for that age level of reading) but historically factual.

I'll be very interested to see what they contain when they're published.  I do like that they're going to be available online for free and that an attempt is being made (as with the essays) to be more transparent about church history.

It's not self evident that one cannot write in an eighth- or ninth-grade reading-difficulty level without fictionalizing the content. If that were the case, it would be impossible to produce history texts for most grade-school and high school students without making them fictional. 

Edited June 8, 2017 by Scott Lloyd