Observing the Sabbath

[stemelbow]

SS we had a lesson the Sabbath, as perhaps some of you did too.

A man shared a story wherein he at one time had to take a really tough test for a work certification and he worried he wouldn't pass.  So he suggested he'd study a little bit on the Sabbath to which his wife replied "you sure you should do such worldly things on the Sabbath"?  And he did not study on any Sunday leading up to it and he passed.  Says he, "I can tell you with assuredly that I know I only passed because I observed the Sabbath".  Cute story, I'd say, but I'm skeptical. 

I bring this up because I chimed in saying (sometime before this above comment was made and my comment was not related, nor was it meant to be):

"During Jesus's life we have nothing from Him about the Sabbath except a bunch of effort on his part to condemn those who wished to follow certain rules about what to do on the Sabbath.  And Paul has nothing except at one point in Col. 2 he says, "Let no man therefore judge you in meal, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days" which is similar.  It feels like sometimes we're too pharisaical on this point."  I had nothing more to add, except when a few people seemed to get all concerned with my comment, I added, "I'm just pointing out what is the NT and we can do with it what we want.  I dont' really have much more to say than that about our understanding and observance of the Sabbath.  Peace."

People seemed to get a bit agitated by my comment.  Uncomfortable with the notion that our strictness of Sabbath observance is a bit misguided.  What is your take?

[HappyJackWagon]

All I can say is that yesterday, aside from attending church, I didn't follow the letter of a Traditional understanding of keeping the Sabbath day holy. But it was a fantastic day. It was one of the best Sundays my family and I have had in a very long time.

[CV75]

18 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

SS we had a lesson the Sabbath, as perhaps some of you did too.

A man shared a story wherein he at one time had to take a really tough test for a work certification and he worried he wouldn't pass.  So he suggested he'd study a little bit on the Sabbath to which his wife replied "you sure you should do such worldly things on the Sabbath"?  And he did not study on any Sunday leading up to it and he passed.  Says he, "I can tell you with assuredly that I know I only passed because I observed the Sabbath".  Cute story, I'd say, but I'm skeptical. 

I bring this up because I chimed in saying (sometime before this above comment was made and my comment was not related, nor was it meant to be):

"During Jesus's life we have nothing from Him about the Sabbath except a bunch of effort on his part to condemn those who wished to follow certain rules about what to do on the Sabbath.  And Paul has nothing except at one point in Col. 2 he says, "Let no man therefore judge you in meal, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days" which is similar.  It feels like sometimes we're too pharisaical on this point."  I had nothing more to add, except when a few people seemed to get all concerned with my comment, I added, "I'm just pointing out what is the NT and we can do with it what we want.  I dont' really have much more to say than that about our understanding and observance of the Sabbath.  Peace."

People seemed to get a bit agitated by my comment.  Uncomfortable with the notion that our strictness of Sabbath observance is a bit misguided.  What is your take?

What practices were your classmates advocating that feel too Pharisaical? In what way(s) to you think the LDS Church is too strict and misguided in her teachings on the Sabbath?

[stemelbow]

14 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

All I can say is that yesterday, aside from attending church, I didn't follow the letter of a Traditional understanding of keeping the Sabbath day holy. But it was a fantastic day. It was one of the best Sundays my family and I have had in a very long time.

That's great to hear.  my niece turned 18 recently and we all ventured to my sister's house to celebrate.  We always have a great time and last night was no different for us.  I'm glad you had such a great day.

[stemelbow]

13 minutes ago, CV75 said:

What practices were your classmates advocating that feel too Pharisaical? In what way(s) to you think the LDS Church is too strict and misguided in her teachings on the Sabbath?

No studying for upcoming tests, no getting sweaty and doing physical labor, no watching TV shows, sitting around listening to music and reading scriptures should be about what constitutes our Sabbath activity, unless you're a bishop or something.  There was some balance there was some effort to say, "well if your ox is stuck you shouldn't just leave it" type of stuff, though.

My comment about pharisaic-leaning Sabbath observance had more to do with my life-long observance of LDS view of the Sabbath and less to do with what exactly was said yesterday, though.  But I will say, I'd say most of my ward seems pretty pharisaical on this issue as eyes peer around trying to observe other's "breaking" the Sabbath. 

[bluebell]

I don't think we can (or should) get a complete view of the Savior's feelings about sabbath day observance just from the NT, but He seemed to keep the Sabbath day as the Mosaic law required, just not to the extreme that a faction of the Jewish people believed He should.

Can I ask, why are you skeptical of the man's story that you related in the OP?

[Rain]

My take is that when they heard you give your comment they also heard you condemning them or justifying your own actions even if you weren't. Depending on what was said before that I might have felt that too even while thinking through what you said and telling myself to take nothing more than what you said.

My take on what you said - we know we are supposed to keep the Sabbath day holy from the 10 commandments. That wasn't repealed with Christ. He condemned the nit picky rules made by man. 

Last week my son needed to go back to the church (very close). We suggested he take his bike. He didn't like that. He felt more comfortable with the idea of walking on the Sabbath. He has very wrong and right thinking and we worry about that sometimes. We explained how the Sabbath was made for man etc. Then we let him make his own choice.

My husband has anxiety. That test likely would have created a lot of anxiety for him. He also would not of studied for it on Sunday. Why? Because the Sabbath is made for man. He NEEDS the Sabbath to be free from school and work. He needs time off from those things and can't just turn the anxiety off, but on Sunday he does a pretty job of it for most of the day because, in a sense, the Lord gives him permission to not worry about those things. We were married before he cut out studying on the sabbath. It made a big difference in his life to have that time off on Sunday.

So that may seem a pharisical rule to some, but for our family it is the Sabbath being made for us.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Rain

[rongo]

35 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

No studying for upcoming tests, no getting sweaty and doing physical labor, no watching TV shows, sitting around listening to music and reading scriptures should be about what constitutes our Sabbath activity, unless you're a bishop or something.  There was some balance there was some effort to say, "well if your ox is stuck you shouldn't just leave it" type of stuff, though.

So what does Sabbath rest look like for you, if your ideal is to continue to do all of the labors of your week? 

[stemelbow]

1 minute ago, bluebell said:

I don't think we can (or should) get a complete view of the Savior's feelings about sabbath day observance just from the NT, but He seemed to keep the Sabbath day as the Mosaic law required, just not to the extreme that a faction of the Jewish people believed He should.

Oh sure.  Jesus was far more than what little snippets we get from the NT.  I'm not saying that. Just pointing out a reality.  Some view the NT as inspiring to the point of thinking what is in there is what we need to know. 

1 minute ago, bluebell said:

Can I ask, why are you skeptical of the man's story that you related in the OP?

no doubt plenty have passed that test without being LDS (I know his former field of work and have a pretty good idea what certifications he might have been going for).  We cant' replay our lives, but it's likely if he opened his books or read a thing here or there on a Sabbath leading up the test he would have passed, just the same.  So his "certainty" comment was a bit overblown.  I will add though, if he feels particularly enlightened or gets a cleared head or whatever because of his Sabbath observance, more power to him.  My ears pique up a bit when certainty type comments are applied.  I get skeptical, I admit. 

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, rongo said:

So what does Sabbath rest look like for you, if your ideal is to continue to do all of the labors of your week? 

For me, this is key.

If, other than going to church, the day is pretty much like every other day, then that's a sign to me that I'm not keeping the Sabbath day as God requires.  

[mrmarklin]

Here's what I did yesterday, Sunday May 7.  Got up and dressed before church in time to watch Media Buzzfeed on Fox News at 8.00am. Went to sacrament meeting at 9:30, leaving church at around eleven. Stopped at Panera for brunch.  Picked up wife at noon to go to my son's sacrament meeting at 12:30 as he was being made first counselor in bishopric of his ward.  After sacrament stayed and watched him get set apart.  

Went to lunch with wife at Panera again around 2:30.

At 4:00 picked up my granddaughter and her mother to go walking for around 1-1/2 hours.  After dropping daughter in law off I took granddaughter to my house. We stayed a while and she played(she's seven) then went to Japanese for dinner with both wife and her.  Finally dropping granddaughter at her house in time for her to go to bed.

It was a great family day for me.

Comments are welcome.

 

 

[stemelbow]

30 minutes ago, Rain said:

My take is that when they heard you give your comment they also heard you condemning them or justifying your own actions even if you weren't. Depending on what was said before that I might have felt that too even while thinking through what you said and telling myself to take nothing more than what you said.

Well there's a history there with me and my ward.  This has more to do with me saying anything, as my past has come back to bite me in that some don't give me much of a chance when I comment.  They are seemingly already annoyed if I raise my hand or start to comment.  My wife notices a few people roll their eyes if ever I say anything.  I mostly just sit quietly these days offering a comment maybe once a month, if that. 

30 minutes ago, Rain said:

My take on what you said - we know we are supposed to keep the Sabbath day holy from the 10 commandments.

Your concept of knowledge is different than mine. 

30 minutes ago, Rain said:

 

That wasn't repealed with Christ. He condemned the nit picky rules made by man. 

I'm fine with that take.  But when in his life did he say that or something like it? 

30 minutes ago, Rain said:

Last week my son needed to go back to the church (very close). We suggested he take his bike. He didn't like that. He felt more comfortable with the idea of walking on the Sabbath. He has very wrong and right thinking and we worry about that sometimes. We explained how the Sabbath was made for man etc. Then we let him make his own choice.

My husband has anxiety. That test likely would have created a lot of anxiety for him. He also would not of studied for it on Sunday. Why? Because the Sabbath is made for man. He NEEDS the Sabbath to be free from school and work. He needs time off from those things and can't just turn the anxiety off, but on Sunday he does a pretty job of it for most of the day because, in a sense, the Lord gives him permission to not worry about those things. We were married before he cut out studying on the sabbath. It made a big difference in his life to have that time off on Sunday.

So that may seem a pharisical rule to some, but for our family it is the Sabbath being made for us.

I'm fine with that.  My voice of concern regarding pharisaical views fo the Sabbath is more about defining what specifically to do ro not do on the Sabbath.  I don't care for it, myself.  To each their own.  I tend to want to trust individuals and families in defining their own experience. 

[CV75]

49 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

No studying for upcoming tests, no getting sweaty and doing physical labor, no watching TV shows, sitting around listening to music and reading scriptures should be about what constitutes our Sabbath activity, unless you're a bishop or something.  There was some balance there was some effort to say, "well if your ox is stuck you shouldn't just leave it" type of stuff, though.

It’s nice they commented on the ox/mire teaching. It sounds like your classmates were sharing their personal ways of observing the Sabbath in alignment with the guidance in the D&C 59 lesson material. Our class mentioned a LOT of things that serve as their personal signs of devotion given to God.

53 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

My comment about pharisaic-leaning Sabbath observance had more to do with my life-long observance of LDS view of the Sabbath and less to do with what exactly was said yesterday, though.  But I will say, I'd say most of my ward seems pretty pharisaical on this issue as eyes peer around trying to observe other's "breaking" the Sabbath. 

That must be a sight!

What do you mean by "LDS view of the Sabbath"?

[bluebell]

20 minutes ago, mrmarklin said:

Here's what I did yesterday, Sunday May 7.  Got up and dressed before church in time to watch Media Buzzfeed on Fox News at 8.00am. Went to sacrament meeting at 9:30, leaving church at around eleven. Stopped at Panera for brunch.  Picked up wife at noon to go to my son's sacrament meeting at 12:30 as he was being made first counselor in bishopric of his ward.  After sacrament stayed and watched him get set apart.  

Went to lunch with wife at Panera again around 2:30.

At 4:00 picked up my granddaughter and her mother to go walking for around 1-1/2 hours.  After dropping daughter in law off I took granddaughter to my house. We stayed a while and she played(she's seven) then went to Japanese for dinner with both wife and her.  Finally dropping granddaughter at her house in time for her to go to bed.

It was a great family day for me.

Comments are welcome.

 

 

Sounds like you really like Panera.

[stemelbow]

11 minutes ago, rongo said:

So what does Sabbath rest look like for you, if your ideal is to continue to do all of the labors of your week? 

You want to know what my Sunday's consist of so you can decide whether I should be concerned about Sabbath observance?  Ok, but rest is usually not involved. 

I wake up pretty early because my kids like to get up and get going.  On non-fast Sundays I make breakfast for everyone.  We all get together and eat, enjoying light hearted conversation.  We say a prayer and often have one of the kids give a scripture or message to start the day.  We wrestle and play until Church--my wife does most of the work on our two youngest girls getting their hair ready and all that.  We are within a mile of Church (about .5 miles) so I typically take 2 or 3 kids for a walk to Church, whoever will join me.  We have a grand time on the journey.  We arrive and get ready. 

For instance, yesterday we were there 15 minutes early, so I suggested to my 8 year old that he should go and say good morning to some of the old couples and old ladies (we have a number in our ward) that were sitting there.  He was reluctant but did approach a couple without my assistance.  My younger girls also went up to some older couples and smirked, said hi, hugged them.  My wife and older kids came and we all sat in the back where we usually sit, and the circus of Church began.  Anyway, Church ended and my 5 year old and I walked home while the rest drove or whatever.  We had a delightful chat about Church.  She didn't learn anything she said but she was the stinkiest (which she used as best) eater of the snacks (even though it was fast Sunday yesterday they were given snacks).  We got home and I made some dips for chips (my niece's birthday and my sister was making a taco bar) and they were excellent (my favorite is my tomatillo salsa). 

Then before we left I headed down stairs where everyone was lounging and we picked up a scriptures and read a bit, before our 1 hour drive to my sister's.  We arrived and immediately I hopped out and grabbed a few of the nieces and nephews because as it were they were all gathered out front as we pulled up.  The youngest of the bunch is a 3 year old and he and I have a special bond.  he gets particularly giddy with me, so he and I played around in the front for a while when everyone went inside.  Anyway, it was pretty party-like the rest of the time.  The kids played games, traveled a couple of blocks to a park to play and came back, played some more in the yard, which I got involved in, while the adults talked on various topics.  It got late and we got on the road for another hour arriving at home way past the kids' bed time.  Tossed them to bed as they were exhausted and my wife and I and oldest sat up and chatted about his life.  His girlfriend is being sketchy, says he.  He had indicated when he goes away to school that he'll break up with her before he goes.  But lately I guess he doesn't want to let go of her.  Anyway, she's gone out with other guys but tells him she wants to stay together and make their long distance relationship work.  But apparently he doesn't believe her and thinks she's getting ready for him to leave so she can date other guys, or something.   Anyway, we chatted some about that.  He got ready for bed, as did we.  My wife laid down and was reading while I cleaned the rest of the house (I've been renovating for the past couple of months and am on my last bathroom.)  The tools were still a little out and about, a bit messy.  So I organized and cleaned up.  Then I headed to bed, quite exhausted. 

[The Nehor]

My first goal is to try to free the laborer from oppression which means try to live my day such that people do not have to labor economically due to my actions as much as possible. Then I try to do good.

[rongo]

28 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

You want to know what my Sunday's consist of so you can decide whether I should be concerned about Sabbath observance? 

No, I was curious because you had listed things like "studying for upcoming tests, getting sweaty and doing physical labor, watching TV shows, sitting around listening to music," etc. as things that you think many Mormons are pharisaical about. Your description of yesterday as an example didn't have you doing yardwork, watching TV, studying for tests, etc. Your description of yesterday sounded okay to me, for what that's worth.

I have found value in setting the Sabbath aside as a different day from the other six, as a rest from my non-Sabbath life. So, no work, no commerce, no TV, etc. I personally equate the exercise of faith here as similar to tithing: try it and see if tangible blessings flow into your life. Using studying as an example (the example the guy gave in your class), I believe that if one decides to test this and see, one would find that one does better than if one didn't have the faith and decided to study on the Sabbath (a six-day activity). My family has found for ourselves that, as Heber C. Kimball taught, the Lord's blessings don't operate on the principle of 2+2=4. That is, God can expand capacity and even (to us apparently) manipulate time if we have faith and test his promises. People's mileage will vary on this, based on their faith. Some won't even try it because they don't believe there will be any real blessing or effect. 

I think this goes back to your thread about the "magic" of scripture study. I think there is a divide between Mormons who look for and expect to find "magic" (i.e., providential blessings), and those who don't. Sabbath Day is one of these things. Scripture study is another. Temple worship and temple work is yet another. Etc.

[stemelbow]

8 minutes ago, rongo said:

No, I was curious because you had listed things like "studying for upcoming tests, getting sweaty and doing physical labor, watching TV shows, sitting around listening to music," etc. as things that you think many Mormons are pharisaical about. Your description of yesterday as an example didn't have you doing yardwork, watching TV, studying for tests, etc. Your description of yesterday sounded okay to me, for what that's worth.

I'm not opposed to doing yard work though, or studying for tests, or watching TV shows, or getting some good exercise.  It just so happens yesterday I didn't fit that in.  Is gathering up the kids and running off to a comfortable restaurant out of the question? 

8 minutes ago, rongo said:

 

I have found value in setting the Sabbath aside as a different day from the other six, as a rest from my non-Sabbath life. So, no work, no commerce, no TV, etc. I personally equate the exercise of faith here as similar to tithing: try it and see if tangible blessings flow into your life. Using studying as an example (the example the guy gave in your class), I believe that if one decides to test this and see, one would find that one does better than if one didn't have the faith and decided to study on the Sabbath (a six-day activity). My family has found for ourselves that, as Heber C. Kimball taught, the Lord's blessings don't operate on the principle of 2+2=4. That is, God can expand capacity and even (to us apparently) manipulate time if we have faith and test his promises. People's mileage will vary on this, based on their faith. Some won't even try it because they don't believe there will be any real blessing or effect. 

I think this goes back to your thread about the "magic" of scripture study. I think there is a divide between Mormons who look for and expect to find "magic" (i.e., providential blessings), and those who don't. Sabbath Day is one of these things. Scripture study is another. Temple worship and temple work is yet another. Etc.

Woo...God has manipulated time on your behalf?  what does that mean? 

[stemelbow]

21 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

My first goal is to try to free the laborer from oppression which means try to live my day such that people do not have to labor economically due to my actions as much as possible. Then I try to do good.

Ahh...hooey...people have to work anyways, whether you get off your lazy butt or not. 

My first goal remains the same for Sunday or any other day--survive and look for ways to help someone. 

[The Nehor]

7 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Ahh...hooey...people have to work anyways, whether you get off your lazy butt or not. 

My first goal remains the same for Sunday or any other day--survive and look for ways to help someone. 

Some do but I want to live so that if everyone lived like I do there would be almost no one working on the Sabbath. I want to get invited to live in such a world some day and I want to live so they do not reject my application because I would ruin the place.

Edited May 8, 2017 by The Nehor

[stemelbow]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

For me, this is key.

If, other than going to church, the day is pretty much like every other day, then that's a sign to me that I'm not keeping the Sabbath day as God requires.  

I'm the opposite.  If I have a goal on Sunday that is different then the other days, then I have my goals mixed up.  I know Pres Monson mocks it, but to me all I need is love.  If I have a goal of loving others, I should have that each day.  So I try to make the priority numero uno for me.  And Sunday means nothing to me if I don't have the same goal.  In that way, Sunday is the same as any other day, and church sometimes, as at result, becomes a pain the butt much like some activities I gotsta do other days. 

[stemelbow]

12 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Some do but I want to live so that if everyone lived like I do there would be almost no one working on the Sabbath. I want to get invited to live in such a world some day and I want to live so they do not reject my application because I would ruin the place.

Imagine all the people....I gotcha. 

[stemelbow]

Made a reference to the BeaTitudles and Lenon's song.  Championship's over. 

[bluebell]

20 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I'm the opposite.  If I have a goal on Sunday that is different then the other days, then I have my goals mixed up.  I know Pres Monson mocks it, but to me all I need is love.  If I have a goal of loving others, I should have that each day.  So I try to make the priority numero uno for me.  And Sunday means nothing to me if I don't have the same goal.  In that way, Sunday is the same as any other day, and church sometimes, as at result, becomes a pain the butt much like some activities I gotsta do other days. 

Love for God should be our priority numero uno.   The sabbath is a holy day, different than the other six, per God's commandment.  But I agree that there are many things we can do on sunday that we should be doing every other day of the week as well.

[HappyJackWagon]

38 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Some do but I want to live so that if everyone lived like I do there would be almost no one working on the Sabbath. I want to get invited to live in such a world some day and I want to live so they do not reject my application because I would ruin the place.

A lot of people are thankful to get work hours, whether it's on Sunday or any other day. If I say I don't want anyone to work means many wouldn't "get" to work even if they wanted to for the support of their families.

I wonder what would happen to the job market and the economy if no one worked on Sunday. Would that be more utopian or dystopian?