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No, this is not about those who have accepted proxy ordinances ;)

The good ol' Grateful Dead have appeared in two threads now (inventing a new religion, reality and hallucinations) with a few people chiming in.  I swear I had nothing to do with it!

So, let's consolidate here -- it's our shakedown street lot scene.

What shows are you listening to now?

What shows are required listening?

What do you think of post-Jerry Dead?  Anyone going to Dead & Company this summer?

Best show memory?  Synchronicity?

Any Wharf Rats? (I'm wondering how Mormon Deadheads feel about the band's drug culture)

Anything else?

 

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I'm currently focusing my listening energy on '73 shows.  From the other thread:

Quote

I've been perusing '73 lately and was reminded of this gem of a show:  11/17 UCLA  I think it's got my favorite "Here Comes Sunshine" -- good vocals, epic Phil jams, Jerry being top-notch Jerry.  It also features this awesome double sandwich: Playin' -> UJB -> Morning Dew -> UJB -> Playin'.  Check it out! 

'73 is a sweet sometimes overlooked year.  It's got the power and rawness of '72 (minus Pigpen, of course), it's got the wall of sound which makes for some cool audience recordings and matrixes, and I feel like the band's really working the jazz side of things.  A friend of mine joked that they got the right combo of drugs -- not too much psychedelics (60's) and not too much cocaine (the disco influenced later 70s).  Humorous, yes, but a good point.  '73 has a tempered rawness, a primeval sound lurking underneath a semi-polished exterior that allows moments of sweet heavenly transcendence with simultaneous peeks into the terrifying abyss.

In addition to 11/17, I also recommend 3/24, 5/26, and 6/30.

 

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On 4/8/2017 at 11:09 PM, 3DOP said:

It would seem that it is your position that Grateful Dead lyrics make sense. I have tried without success to understand anything on Wake of the Flood because I still like the sound. I saw them at the old Paramount in Portland around '76, and again in Eugene with my wife in the 80's. That was outdoors. Autzen Stadium. It rained...and they played "Rain" by the Beatles. It was pretty fun. I was just looking for our copy of Wake of the Flood and was told by my wife that we listened to it on our last trip to guess where??? Veneta, OR! Hah. I vaguely remember from when we were going down there for a wedding last year. Hopefully it is out in the car. Anyway, I could enjoy some commentary some time if you are ever up to it...

Wake of the Flood is a great album!  Every song was a gem that the Dead cut and polished on the road for the next 20 years.  Good choice of music for going to Veneta.  Have you ever gone to the Oregon Country Fair there?  Fun times.  I'm also a big fan of Nancy's yogurt that the Kesey family started.

Robert Hunter is fantastic lyricist I think because he's able to synthesize diverse American lyrical influences into something unique.  Sometimes his words are concrete and narrative, sometimes they are nebulous and lyrical, and sometimes they are just plain whimsical.  "China Cat Sunflower" is a great example of a nonsensical song along the lines of Lewis Carrol's "Jabberwocky."  In a footnote to the song, Hunter said:  "Nobody ever asked me the meaning of this song. People seem to know exactly what I'm talking about. It's good that a few things in this world are clear to all of us." HA!

Anyways, is there a particular song you'd like to talk about?

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27 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

No, this is not about those who have accepted proxy ordinances ;)

The good ol' Grateful Dead have appeared in two threads now (inventing a new religion, reality and hallucinations) with a few people chiming in.  I swear I had nothing to do with it!

So, let's consolidate here -- it's our shakedown street lot scene.

What shows are you listening to now?

What shows are required listening?

What do you think of post-Jerry Dead?  Anyone going to Dead & Company this summer?

Best show memory?  Synchronicity?

Any Wharf Rats? (I'm wondering how Mormon Deadheads feel about the band's drug culture)

Anything else?

 

"Any Wharf Rats? (I'm wondering how Mormon Deadheads feel about the band's drug culture)" - I never really did like the Grateful Dead but I sure did like Pink Floyd. I can honestly say that I never did drugs but with the same level of honesty I can say that my friends sure did. :)

Led Zeppelin was my all-time favorite band. While don't go out of my way anymore to listen to them it's still good to catch them on the radio once in a while.

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33 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Any Wharf Rats? (I'm wondering how Mormon Deadheads feel about the band's drug culture)

 

 

It would be nice to just focus on the music, which in my opinion could be very, very good.  The culture is self destructive.

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11 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Wake of the Flood is a great album!  Every song was a gem that the Dead cut and polished on the road for the next 20 years.  Good choice of music for going to Veneta.  Have you ever gone to the Oregon Country Fair there?  Fun times.  I'm also a big fan of Nancy's yogurt that the Kesey family started.

Robert Hunter is fantastic lyricist I think because he's able to synthesize diverse American lyrical influences into something unique.  Sometimes his words are concrete and narrative, sometimes they are nebulous and lyrical, and sometimes they are just plain whimsical.  "China Cat Sunflower" is a great example of a nonsensical song along the lines of Lewis Carrol's "Jabberwocky."  In a footnote to the song, Hunter said:  "Nobody ever asked me the meaning of this song. People seem to know exactly what I'm talking about. It's good that a few things in this world are clear to all of us." HA!

Anyways, is there a particular song you'd like to talk about?

China/Rider is a must listen to.  Jack Straw, Peggy-O, Loser, Sugar Magnolia, Lady with a Fan, Me and My Uncle...could keep going on.

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8 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

70 to 75 is the best time.  75 to 79 has some good things as well.  I'll only listen to live shows, I really don't like any of the studio albums.  I'm also not a big fan of Brent Mydland.  His keyboards were fine, his backing vocals ok, but when he takes lead vocals I hit the next song button.

https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead

I hear what you're saying about Brent ("I Will Take You Home," "Just A Little Light," bleh...) but he has his moments.  "Dear Mr. Fantasy"!! I can get down with "We Can Run" if I semi-ignore the lyrics.  "Tons of Steel" can put a smile on my face.  Check out this version from 4/11/87.  It's particularly sweet when Phil comes in high harmony on the second half of the second verse and you can hear the crowd's reaction.

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17 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

It would be nice to just focus on the music, which in my opinion could be very, very good.  The culture is self destructive.

How do you square the circle that without drugs there would have been none of the music?  Obviously the music is incredible on its own -- no need for drugs to listen to it -- but without the LSD culture of 1960s San Francisco there would have been no Grateful Dead.

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26 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

How do you square the circle that without drugs there would have been none of the music?  Obviously the music is incredible on its own -- no need for drugs to listen to it -- but without the LSD culture of 1960s San Francisco there would have been no Grateful Dead.

I'm not sure that I need to.  There have been many musicians/authors/artists who's work was influenced by drugs or other illicit substances.  Does one need to square any sort of circle to enjoy the poetry of Lord Byron?  I will say that the song Casey Jones isn't one of my favorites.

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One of my favorites is Row Jimmy...If I could follow the story, I would like it a lot better. Who is Jimmy and who is Julie? She's happy about catching a rabbit and expecting it go home? What's Jimmy doing in this boat and why should he need encouragement to keep rowing? The key has to be "seems a common way to go". Rowing a boat, (the common way to go) is allegorical for something?

 

Julie catch a rabbit by his hair
Come back steppin' like to walk on air
Get back home where you belong
And don't you run off no more.

Don't hang your head, let the two time roll
Grass shack nailed to a pine wood floor
Ask the time baby I don't know
Come back later, gonna let it show.

I say row jimmy row, gonna get there, I don't know,
Seems a common way to go, get out and row, row, row, row, row.

 

Also Miserere...How do you square the circle? I have been back and forth much of my adult life about the possible spiritual liabilities of music cultures that I enjoy beginning in the 30's with early recorded music, on up to the end of the 80's (only because of Dire Straits). Otherwise I pull up in the mid 70's. Have you ever wrestled with the question of a possible conflict between your musical preferences and your spiritual life? Believe me, I am not trying to trouble your conscience, I am looking for answers and I don't know many Traditionalists who I would rather ask.

The main problem as I see it, is that with me and I suppose most of us, when we listen to music, it can rattle around in our heads for weeks until it is replaced with something else. What about St. Paul's admonition to use psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs? I am certain that at least we must never allow our popular tastes to crowd out music that is "more elevated", if you will. That said, I tend to think that there is important value in most cases for appreciating the music of one's culture. Besides wanting a clear conscience to enjoy the music of my generation and the generation before that, I would very much like to have this kind of common ground with souls who I might come across who would think it was crazy even to wonder about the popular music of our times.

If you find my question to be a little too controversial for Social Hall, or you just never even thought about the question, I understand. I still want to be able to appreciate Row Jimmy. In fact, if there is some meaning to the poetry, it helps me to see much more value to the music as something that would more likely deserve attention and preservation.

Thanks, Rory   

Edited by 3DOP
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55 minutes ago, cacheman said:

I'm more of a Dylan and Neil Young kind of guy, but I've always enjoyed hearing the Grateful Dead.  I did get to see the Dead and Company last summer with my daughter.  We had a great time!

And I just saw Neil Young last summer:)

Edited by pogi
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4 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

One of my favorites is Row Jimmy...If I could follow the story, I would like it a lot better. Who is Jimmy and who is Julie? She's happy about catching a rabbit and expecting it go home? What's Jimmy doing in this boat and why should he need encouragement to keep rowing? The key has to be "seems a common way to go". Rowing a boat, (the common way to go) is allegorical for something?

 

Julie catch a rabbit by his hair
Come back steppin' like to walk on air
Get back home where you belong
And don't you run off no more.

Don't hang your head, let the two time roll
Grass shack nailed to a pine wood floor
Ask the time baby I don't know
Come back later, gonna let it show.

I say row jimmy row, gonna get there, I don't know,
Seems a common way to go, get out and row, row, row, row, row.

 

The lyrics to Row Jimmy seem to be influenced by other early 20th century folk songs, which were themselves probably influenced by earlier songs.  I think a lot of times words just sound good together and evoke an interesting mental image.  "Grass shack nailed to a pine wood floor."  What doe that mean?  Really nothing, but the words flow off the tongue well and go with the tune.  The words themselves really don't seem to have a consistent, coherent meaning.  But the colors look good next to each other and all go together to form a beautiful painting.

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47 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

I'm not sure that I need to.  There have been many musicians/authors/artists who's work was influenced by drugs or other illicit substances.  Does one need to square any sort of circle to enjoy the poetry of Lord Byron?  I will say that the song Casey Jones isn't one of my favorites.

Coleridge reportedly wrote Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner as a regular cocaine user. It gives me pause but I tend towards scrupulosity.

I am convinced that poetry combined with music is potentially more powerful for good or bad than either alone. But I do not know what criteria to use to make a judgment on the musical side. Clearly, if lyrics are immoral the whole must be flawed. But I wonder what Coleridge would have thought about Casey Jones? And for that matter, it seems like there is recognition in the lyrics that there needs to be prudence about drugs..."Better watch your speed...trouble ahead, trouble behind..."

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No contributions to the thread besides this that might be interesting:

http://artsites.ucsc.edu/GDead/agdl/gdhome.html

I did have a brother in law for about 10? Years who was a Deadhead and made me a great selection of the songs, but it is on cassette tape so forgot about them awhile back.  Only name I remember is Terrapin Station. Maybe I will collect some for my IPad.

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33 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

 And for that matter, it seems like there is recognition in the lyrics that there needs to be prudence about drugs..."Better watch your speed...trouble ahead, trouble behind..."

True, but  the constant repetition of the word "cocaine," especially in live shows, turns me off of that song. 

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2 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I have a cousin that for years traveled with the Grateful Dead and did sign language to all of their songs.  He still does this for a living.

 

Jeanne, hi.

I do not know how to understand that after admitting that I like the sound but have a little trouble with the words. Sign language can only deal with words, right? Others have only the words without the sound? Anyway...very interesting...Thanks for the contribution to my confusion!!! Heh.

Rory

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24 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

 

Jeanne, hi.

I do not know how to understand that after admitting that I like the sound but have a little trouble with the words. Sign language can only deal with words, right? Others have only the words without the sound? Anyway...very interesting...Thanks for the contribution to my confusion!!! Heh.

Rory

Hey Rory,

I'll get to your other more important post later, because this one is a quick answer.  For many years the Dead have had an area where the deaf can enjoy the music.  This may seem like a paradox (which is the best way to understand the Dead!) but I was near that section for one New Year's Eve show.  The deaf Deadheads all were holding balloons, beach balls, etc, close to their bodies while dancing, I'm guessing to amplify the feeling of the music (I bet they got more out of Drums then almost anyone else there!). The sign language interpreter would not only translate the lyrics, but would also move her hands along with the jam to visually show what Jerry was doing. It was quite amazing to see and also showed that what the Dead were doing was greater than just audible music: it was an inclusive family, so much so that those who couldn't fully hear the music still were able to have experiences through feeling and sight that brought them back for more.

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11 hours ago, 3DOP said:

 

Jeanne, hi.

I do not know how to understand that after admitting that I like the sound but have a little trouble with the words. Sign language can only deal with words, right? Others have only the words without the sound? Anyway...very interesting...Thanks for the contribution to my confusion!!! Heh.

Rory

it is kind of strange..but for some who can hear partialy..or just high or low notes.it is kind of cool.  If one is traveling with a deaf person..they can feel the beat!!

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17 hours ago, 3DOP said:

One of my favorites is Row Jimmy...If I could follow the story, I would like it a lot better. Who is Jimmy and who is Julie? She's happy about catching a rabbit and expecting it go home? What's Jimmy doing in this boat and why should he need encouragement to keep rowing? The key has to be "seems a common way to go". Rowing a boat, (the common way to go) is allegorical for something?

I think "Row Jimmy" is not really about telling a coherent story, but instead focuses on images, sound, and phrases.  This means that interpretations can be vastly different from person to person and I doubt anyone  interpretation can truly incorporate all that is going on in the song.  It's a great example of the idea from Eyes of the World: "Sometimes the songs that we sing are just songs of our own."  The nebulousness of "Row Jimmy" allows for each of us to make it our own song.

My own thoughts on the song have been rather Taoist.  In life we're just rowing a boat, just moving along with the currents.  Are we going to get there?  Doesn't really matter, since we don't even know where we are going.  Just row.  It may be common and ordinary, but that's where life is found.  Never mind the type A personalities, the go-getters.  Instead, be common and simple.  Rock your baby, but not too fast and not too slow.  Take the middle path.  Do some dancing (double twist and the do-paso).  Forget about the time.  I think the feel of the music matches these ideas, too.  This ain't no barn-burner song -- it's relaxed, melodic, and flowy.

I see depression-era images in my mind, probably due to references to a shack, a levee, the do-paso, rowing, two-bit pieces, etc.

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