Grateful Dead

[MiserereNobis]

17 hours ago, 3DOP said:

Coleridge reportedly wrote Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner as a regular cocaine user. It gives me pause but I tend towards scrupulosity.

I am convinced that poetry combined with music is potentially more powerful for good or bad than either alone. But I do not know what criteria to use to make a judgment on the musical side. Clearly, if lyrics are immoral the whole must be flawed. But I wonder what Coleridge would have thought about Casey Jones? And for that matter, it seems like there is recognition in the lyrics that there needs to be prudence about drugs..."Better watch your speed...trouble ahead, trouble behind..."

Coleridge struggled with laudanum (an opiate milk) addiction.  He had a vision while in a trance-like state induced by laudanum and then wrote down part of the vision in "Kubla Khan."  Here's the last lines of the poem:

Quote

And all should cry, Beware! Beware!

His flashing eyes, his floating hair!

Weave a circle round him thrice,

And close your eyes with holy dread

For he on honey-dew hath fed,

And drunk the milk of Paradise.

I like how you point out that maybe prudence is being called for in the song.  Reminds me of the line from Shakedown Street: "Maybe you had too much too fast"

 

[thesometimesaint]

Never was a "Deadhead". More of a Simon and Garfunkel type myself.

SEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og7JS8mcp3c

[Jeanne]

17 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

Never was a "Deadhead". More of a Simon and Garfunkel type myself.

SEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og7JS8mcp3c

Love this...I have everything they have ever done.  I was heartbroken when they split up!

[pogi]

19 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

 -- but without the LSD culture of 1960s San Francisco there would have been no Grateful Dead.

Maybe not, but without the drug and alcohol culture, Pigpen, many other Deadheads, and probably Jerry Garcia would still be alive today.  As much as I value good music and art, I find life so much more beautiful and valuable.

What could music look like without drugs?  (Donny Osmond's best performance of all time!!!  Check out his move at about 2:05 )

 

[MiserereNobis]

18 hours ago, 3DOP said:

Also Miserere...How do you square the circle? I have been back and forth much of my adult life about the possible spiritual liabilities of music cultures that I enjoy beginning in the 30's with early recorded music, on up to the end of the 80's (only because of Dire Straits). Otherwise I pull up in the mid 70's. Have you ever wrestled with the question of a possible conflict between your musical preferences and your spiritual life? Believe me, I am not trying to trouble your conscience, I am looking for answers and I don't know many Traditionalists who I would rather ask.

The main problem as I see it, is that with me and I suppose most of us, when we listen to music, it can rattle around in our heads for weeks until it is replaced with something else. What about St. Paul's admonition to use psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs? I am certain that at least we must never allow our popular tastes to crowd out music that is "more elevated", if you will. That said, I tend to think that there is important value in most cases for appreciating the music of one's culture. Besides wanting a clear conscience to enjoy the music of my generation and the generation before that, I would very much like to have this kind of common ground with souls who I might come across who would think it was crazy even to wonder about the popular music of our times.

This might be a lengthy post...

For starters, I'm a non-traditional traditionalist I'm a convert to Catholicism and came to the Church in a very unusual way.  I went from being agnostic (not really caring about a spiritual life) to becoming a seeker.  Probably because of my hippie background my first path was psychedelic spirituality.  Not partying, mind you, but a methodical approach to using psychedelics to explore consciousness and spirituality.  This was years and years and years ago.  I had the right convergence of circumstance to really make a go at it: I lived at the base of desert mountains surrounded by wide open space, I had cheap and easy access to high quality mushrooms grown by a friend, I had little responsibility and lots of time and I was basically by myself.  I averaged about 3 trips a week for about 6 or 7 months.  Most of them were spent sitting or wandering in the desert alone (well, sometimes my dog came along).  Afterwards I would journal about my experiences.  I also read A LOT, first about psychedelic spirituality and then about mysticism in general. 

I was initially drawn quite heavily to eastern religions because of the philosophy and focus on meditation and mystical experience and the down-playing of a personal God, which for me was a turn off at the time.  I also began to understand my psychedelic experiences more and more in terms of spiritual archetypes which I also starting paying attention to in other religions.  I came to the conclusion that a religion was just a system of cultural symbols and practices meant to convey that which was ineffable -- the mystical experience.  While for some people this might seem like a denigration of religion, for me it was quite the opposite.  I went from being an agnostic to believing firmly in Spirit and saw the value of all religions as a cultural vehicle to expand a practitioner's consciousness to a point of non-duality and unity with Spirit.

So then I went looking for my cultural vehicle; in other words, I started checking out religions formally.  I went to the local Zen group, but while I liked the ideas of Zen the practice was much to structured and didn't mean much to me.  I went to a handful of peyote ceremonies with the Native American Church.  I checked out some new age/new thought churches, and a unitarian universalist.  It's funny how I was rather ignoring Christianity.  In hippie circles, spirituality is cool and everyone seems to have their spiritual practice, but poor Christianity is a pariah.  Anyways, I finally figured out that in my theory of spirit, Christianity was the way to go.  If religions are systems of cultural symbols meant to convey the ineffable, then I should use my culture's symbols, which are Christian.  I realized that the idea of Jesus meant more to my subconscious than Buddha.  Spiritual symbols have to hit us on a level deeper than intellect, and for me my understanding of other culture's symbols was purely intellectual.  But the symbols of Christianity went deeper.  The cross mean something more to me than the wheel of dharma, for example, or a statue of Shiva.

Now, if someone is looking for deep spiritual symbols in Christianity, where does one go?  Surely not to the non-denominational church operating out of a strip mall...  So yes, I first went to Catholic Mass because of my theory of spiritual symbols that I came to during an intense psychedelic phase.  Ha!  I knew basically nothing of Catholicism and was quite blown away by Mass.  This was, of course, the Novus Ordo, but for me it was incredibly powerful.  I kept going and I started studying.  I was immediately drawn to the Blessed Virgin -- I credit Her for bringing me into the Church.  I started to pray the Rosary.  At first, not because I felt like I was praying to a personal being, but because it was a spiritual practice that encapsulated all these wonderful spiritual symbols.  I kept reading and praying and going to Mass and slowly things started to change inside of me.  I fell in love with the liturgy.  And though it was hard to admit, I was actually beginning to believe.

I have to say that I super appreciated the fact when I went to Mass I was left alone.  I know some people criticize Catholicism for not being friendly to new faces at Mass, but for me it was exactly what I needed.  I didn't want people coming up, shaking my hand, asking about me, etc (yes, Mormon folk, when I've got to sacrament meeting that drives me nuts).  I started going into church to pray the rosary and the stations of the cross.  I started to go to weekday Masses.  I visited a couple of monasteries.  One Advent I decided to go to Mass everyday on the way to work.  After about two weeks the priest asked if he could chat with me.  It was the first time someone talked to me at Mass.  He had noticed, of course, that I never received communion and thought that I needed to confess.  I'll never forget the look on his face when I told him I wasn't Catholic -- what's a non-Catholic doing going to Mass everyday!

Because of my focus on symbols, I wanted to go to a Latin Mass.  The nearest Latin Mass I could find was SSPX an hour away.  I went, not knowing what to expect, and was blown away.  I couldn't believe the differences and how much more powerful the TLM was.  The irregular status of the Society didn't bother me at all -- it wasn't dogma that drew me to Catholicism, but the liturgy.  I kept going to Mass in my town at the Novus Ordo during the week and begin meeting with the priest, one-on-one, twice a week for catechism.  I'm so glad he took me under his wing and didn't leave me to the adult catechism class.  Sometimes we'd go on hikes and that was great.  We'd pray the Rosary and then talk about God.  Other times we'd meet at the brewpub.  And finally, I was baptized.  It's interesting how God and the Blessed Mother led me from psychedelics all the way to tradition.  I have to say, though, that I am much more focused on the traditional liturgy than on the other aspects of traditionalism, which is why I said in another thread that I am not a partisan SSPX.  They just happen to be the only offering of traditional liturgy nearby.

Now, to bring it back to the Grateful Dead, music, and drug culture.  Because of my history it doesn't bother me at all that the Dead came out of the 60s hippie/drug scene, since that was the path that led me to God.  I jokingly said on that inventing-your-own-religion thread that the Dead are like a religion, which is true if you use my previous definition of religion: a collection of cultural symbols and practices to lead to some sort of mystical experience.  At this point, I'm content in loving the music and its complexities and beauties and not worrying about the other parts that might not be congruent with Catholicism.  I've never felt that the music of the Grateful Dead took me away from God, even the songs that have vulgarity (such as "Wharf Rat").  But I've also never suffered from scruples.  I think God gives us beauty in many different places, and the Grateful Dead is definitely a place to find beauty.  To quote Scarlet Begonias, "Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right."

[pogi]

37 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Love this...I have everything they have ever done.  I was heartbroken when they split up!

They were great, but I do like Paul Simon's solo stuff much better.  Paul Simon is it! 

[MiserereNobis]

26 minutes ago, pogi said:

Maybe not, but without the drug and alcohol culture, Pigpen, many other Deadheads, and probably Jerry Garcia would still be alive today.  As much as I value good music and art, I find life so much more beautiful and valuable.

What could music look like without drugs?  (Donny Osmond's best performance of all time!!!  Check out his move at about 2:05 )

 

It's an issue with a long history... how to deal with artists who create beauty but whose lives are a moral mess.

That Osmond video is hilarious!  Have you seen this classic by Bobby?

 

 

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

They were great, but I do like Paul Simon's solo stuff much better.  Paul Simon is it! 

Yeah..Garfunkel has a beautiful voice...but Simon is the real talent here..writing and everything.

[Spammer]

 

Quote

" I think the path of eternal Dead progression travels the depths of structure-breaking jams."

You'll get no argument from me.  I love that the Dead typically primed their audience with rockers and cowboy songs during Set 1, then sought to break down barriers with their excursions and flights of fancy afterward. 

Quote

"My fav is 5/22/77 -- Jerry's phrasing in the first jam builds so beautifully towards the climax and release with Keith having some great moments of syncopation."

I downloaded this show.  I have a lot of May '77, but not this one.  I'll give it a listen.

Quote

We definitely should toss The Other One in the mix, too

Indeed!  I'm sure you know the Harpur College gig in '70.  That one has one of my favorite Other Ones.  I'm going to have to put that one back in rotation.

Quote

"I've been perusing '73 lately and was reminded of this gem of a show:  11/17 UCLA  I think it's got my favorite "Here Comes Sunshine" -- good vocals, epic Phil jams, Jerry being top-notch Jerry.  It also features this awesome double sandwich: Playin' -> UJB -> Morning Dew -> UJB -> Playin'.  Check it out!

Got it downloaded!  I've been getting into some '73, too.  I've got the Madison, WI and one of the Washington, DC shows from that year (with Diickie Betts sitting in for some of the third set).  (Ha! I had to put an extra 'i' in Diickie's name, since the board censored the first four letters!  lol).   I dig both of them, but I'm more familiar with '74 wall of sound Dead than '73.  It's something I've been trying to remedy.

Quote

I'm gonna take a listen later this afternoon to that 12/28/79 show you recommend.  Terrapin->Playin'->Drums sounds pretty sweet and I dig some of that early Brent stuff; as the band tries to find its new sound there are transcendent moments (there are also, of course, some epic fails).

I hear you about Brent.  I really like his harmonies, but not his self-penned Dead tunes.  I've never really liked them that much.  They pale in comparison to the Jerry/Hunter and Weir/Barlow songs.  But on that 12/28 show, right off the bat with that gorgeous Sugaree, his backup vocals are on point and perfectly harmonic.  I think I prefer Brent on backup more than Donna, except for her signature caterwaul during Playin' in the Band, which is inseperable from the song in my mind.  I'm always waiting for it when I'm listening to Playin' from other eras. I know some Deadheads who can't stand it when she yells during Playin'.  Funny how that works.  Probably my favorite musical Brent moment was at my sole Dead show.  6/21/89 at the Shoreline Amphitheater.  He just kills it on the organ during Minglewood.  For my only Dead show, I could have done a lot worse than that one.  It was the summer solstice in California, there were technical difficulties with Bobby's rig at the beginning and Bobby (in his signature short shorts) got really mad. The crowd chanted for a Phil song and was rewarded with a rare Box of Rain; Jerry actually pulled off some great soloing during Cassidy (until he petered off at the end); we had Clarence Clemmons adding some sax to Eyes of the World; a nice Morning Dew and a gorgeous Brokedown Palace at the end.   It was also filmed for posterity and is on youtube.  I have no complaints.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Spammer

[Spammer]

Speaking of Brent, have you heard the band's 12/6/80 show at the Mill Valley Rec center?  It's a brief acoustic set, with a nice Bird Song, Cassidy and Jack a Roe.   At the end, the lady mc thanks each band member by name, but Brent had already split!  The rest of the band stuck around afterward and Bobby had to make up an excuse for him. "Brent probably doesn't even know where he is."  Someone (sounds like Phil) starts calling for him.  Funny stuff.

[Spammer]

On 4/9/2017 at 1:09 AM, 3DOP said:

I was just looking for our copy of Wake of the Flood and was told by my wife that we listened to it on our last trip to guess where??? Veneta, OR! Hah. I vaguely remember from when we were going down there for a wedding last year. Hopefully it is out in the car.

I always have the Springfield Creamery benefit show in Veneta in heavy rotation. It's one of my favorites.  The show was filmed and it's on Youtube.  I showed my sons some of that footage when the topic of what the hippies were like came up.  I treated it like they were in a sociology class.  Man, everyone was so dirty and hairy - and some were in various states of undress.  Look for the guy who climbed one of the towers so he could dance and peer over the fence onto the stage.  I'll say no more.  My boys were simultaneously aghast and laughing. I was only 7 years old at the time and missed the hippie thing, but I'm sure that was typical. I love the music but I'm glad I missed the least savory trappings.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Spammer

[pogi]

3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

It's an issue with a long history... how to deal with artists who create beauty but whose lives are a moral mess.

I think your approach is about right, embrace the complexity of it and find the good in it.  Like the Grateful Dead's music, a person's life can be complex in beauty, goodness, imperfection, structure (and lack thereof), improvisation, immorality, and even ugliness at times, but there are always things to celebrate and even be inspired by.  Even with the vulgarity in Wharf Rat there is a messages of redemption - "But I'll get back on my feet someday, the good Lord willing if He says I may.  'Cause I know the life I'm livin's no good, I'll get a new start, live the life I should."

I absolutely love the line you quote, "Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right."  There is so much truth to that and speaks to the power of perspective and the light that shines even in the darkness.  It sounds very much like something Joseph Smith said:

"We seek for truth(light) wherever we may find it… The first and fundamental principle of our holy religion is, that we believe that we have a right to embrace all, and every item of truth, without limitation or … being … prohibited by the creeds or superstitious notions of men.” 

4 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

That Osmond video is hilarious!  Have you seen this classic by Bobby?

It wouldn't be an 80's music video without a ripping saxophone solo on the beach! That is an awesome video.

 

[3DOP]

9 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

This might be a lengthy post...

For starters, I'm a non-traditional traditionalist I'm a convert to Catholicism and came to the Church in a very unusual way.  I went from being agnostic (not really caring about a spiritual life) to becoming a seeker.  Probably because of my hippie background my first path was psychedelic spirituality.  Not partying, mind you, but a methodical approach to using psychedelics to explore consciousness and spirituality.  This was years and years and years ago.  I had the right convergence of circumstance to really make a go at it: I lived at the base of desert mountains surrounded by wide open space, I had cheap and easy access to high quality mushrooms grown by a friend, I had little responsibility and lots of time and I was basically by myself.  I averaged about 3 trips a week for about 6 or 7 months.  Most of them were spent sitting or wandering in the desert alone (well, sometimes my dog came along).  Afterwards I would journal about my experiences.  I also read A LOT, first about psychedelic spirituality and then about mysticism in general. 

I was initially drawn quite heavily to eastern religions because of the philosophy and focus on meditation and mystical experience and the down-playing of a personal God, which for me was a turn off at the time.  I also began to understand my psychedelic experiences more and more in terms of spiritual archetypes which I also starting paying attention to in other religions.  I came to the conclusion that a religion was just a system of cultural symbols and practices meant to convey that which was ineffable -- the mystical experience.  While for some people this might seem like a denigration of religion, for me it was quite the opposite.  I went from being an agnostic to believing firmly in Spirit and saw the value of all religions as a cultural vehicle to expand a practitioner's consciousness to a point of non-duality and unity with Spirit.

So then I went looking for my cultural vehicle; in other words, I started checking out religions formally.  I went to the local Zen group, but while I liked the ideas of Zen the practice was much to structured and didn't mean much to me.  I went to a handful of peyote ceremonies with the Native American Church.  I checked out some new age/new thought churches, and a unitarian universalist.  It's funny how I was rather ignoring Christianity.  In hippie circles, spirituality is cool and everyone seems to have their spiritual practice, but poor Christianity is a pariah.  Anyways, I finally figured out that in my theory of spirit, Christianity was the way to go.  If religions are systems of cultural symbols meant to convey the ineffable, then I should use my culture's symbols, which are Christian.  I realized that the idea of Jesus meant more to my subconscious than Buddha.  Spiritual symbols have to hit us on a level deeper than intellect, and for me my understanding of other culture's symbols was purely intellectual.  But the symbols of Christianity went deeper.  The cross mean something more to me than the wheel of dharma, for example, or a statue of Shiva.

Now, if someone is looking for deep spiritual symbols in Christianity, where does one go?  Surely not to the non-denominational church operating out of a strip mall...  So yes, I first went to Catholic Mass because of my theory of spiritual symbols that I came to during an intense psychedelic phase.  Ha!  I knew basically nothing of Catholicism and was quite blown away by Mass.  This was, of course, the Novus Ordo, but for me it was incredibly powerful.  I kept going and I started studying.  I was immediately drawn to the Blessed Virgin -- I credit Her for bringing me into the Church.  I started to pray the Rosary.  At first, not because I felt like I was praying to a personal being, but because it was a spiritual practice that encapsulated all these wonderful spiritual symbols.  I kept reading and praying and going to Mass and slowly things started to change inside of me.  I fell in love with the liturgy.  And though it was hard to admit, I was actually beginning to believe.

I have to say that I super appreciated the fact when I went to Mass I was left alone.  I know some people criticize Catholicism for not being friendly to new faces at Mass, but for me it was exactly what I needed.  I didn't want people coming up, shaking my hand, asking about me, etc (yes, Mormon folk, when I've got to sacrament meeting that drives me nuts).  I started going into church to pray the rosary and the stations of the cross.  I started to go to weekday Masses.  I visited a couple of monasteries.  One Advent I decided to go to Mass everyday on the way to work.  After about two weeks the priest asked if he could chat with me.  It was the first time someone talked to me at Mass.  He had noticed, of course, that I never received communion and thought that I needed to confess.  I'll never forget the look on his face when I told him I wasn't Catholic -- what's a non-Catholic doing going to Mass everyday!

Because of my focus on symbols, I wanted to go to a Latin Mass.  The nearest Latin Mass I could find was SSPX an hour away.  I went, not knowing what to expect, and was blown away.  I couldn't believe the differences and how much more powerful the TLM was.  The irregular status of the Society didn't bother me at all -- it wasn't dogma that drew me to Catholicism, but the liturgy.  I kept going to Mass in my town at the Novus Ordo during the week and begin meeting with the priest, one-on-one, twice a week for catechism.  I'm so glad he took me under his wing and didn't leave me to the adult catechism class.  Sometimes we'd go on hikes and that was great.  We'd pray the Rosary and then talk about God.  Other times we'd meet at the brewpub.  And finally, I was baptized.  It's interesting how God and the Blessed Mother led me from psychedelics all the way to tradition.  I have to say, though, that I am much more focused on the traditional liturgy than on the other aspects of traditionalism, which is why I said in another thread that I am not a partisan SSPX.  They just happen to be the only offering of traditional liturgy nearby.

Now, to bring it back to the Grateful Dead, music, and drug culture.  Because of my history it doesn't bother me at all that the Dead came out of the 60s hippie/drug scene, since that was the path that led me to God.  I jokingly said on that inventing-your-own-religion thread that the Dead are like a religion, which is true if you use my previous definition of religion: a collection of cultural symbols and practices to lead to some sort of mystical experience.  At this point, I'm content in loving the music and its complexities and beauties and not worrying about the other parts that might not be congruent with Catholicism.  I've never felt that the music of the Grateful Dead took me away from God, even the songs that have vulgarity (such as "Wharf Rat").  But I've also never suffered from scruples.  I think God gives us beauty in many different places, and the Grateful Dead is definitely a place to find beauty.  To quote Scarlet Begonias, "Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right."

You used peyote so I know you must have read Carlos Castaneda too. It sounds like neither of us had any religion growing up. I think there were probably a lot of us who wanted light, but not necessarily the Light of the World. I just wanted to know things. I wanted insight and what I thought wisdom was. But there was a conflict. I had also seen this guy on TV one night who made me scared that the Bible and Christianity was true. As I remember, I was reading the BIble already when I was still a little more desirous of light without the Light. I did a foolish thing by appealing to Darkness for light instead. I had reasoned that if I became certain that the Darkness was real, I would know that the Light was real, and I could make the right choice. Anyway, the Darkness became more real to me and it seemed like I was getting light, as I had asked for.

I was at a friend's apartment up at the Univ. of Washington and we were smoking some pot, ordinary stuff, "dirt weed" as we called it, but it lately had been affecting me much more than it ever had for the four or five years I had been using. It got late. He and his girl friend went to bed and I just stayed high all night long...without any stimulant. Darkness was revealing himself to me all through the morning hours as my slave master, saying that I belonged to him, and I could never escape. That was the last time I ever took that kind of drug. 

I suppose it was just human respect, but I was ashamed to reveal to anyone that I was beginning to believe in God and in Christ. Like you said, "poor Christianity is a pariah". My family was irreligious so I didn't know how they would take it. I think I finally got a few hours of sleep that night, but when I woke up, the waking nightmare was with me again. This oppression stayed with me as I made my way down Interstate 5. It was right in front of the old Olympia brewery in Tumwater, WA that I had a flat tire. I don't remember all the details of that cold and wet February morning. I remember the heavy road spray as I numbly trudged up the shoulder to a find a jack or a new tire, maybe both. Later, I think the car wouldn't start after I had stopped for snacks somewhere. I must have gotten a push start or a jump. I didn't care much. The oppression was still there telling me I would never get away. Such malice. I don't remember the reasoning process, but I remember that in my misery, while I was driving, I know I was driving again, I think the rain had stopped, I told God that if I were deliverable, would He please help me, and that if He helped me, I would tell people that I believed in Him...and I was freed! I was crying for joy by myself knowing that I was free. 

God loves hippies for sure, as well as curious and foolish kids. Heh. Its overused...but what long strange trips?!?!  It makes me happy now to recall that day over forty years ago. I don't think about it very much anymore. It could have been my imagination, but I doubt it. In any case, I eventually kept my end of the bargain, telling incredulous family and friends. I don't believe because of this experience. I didn't need to know the Darkness to have faith. For obvious reasons, I am afraid for those who might be seeking for light the way I did. I couldn't have lived with that oppression very long. But I am also sure that whoever might get into such trouble, so long as they do live, can always be freed of the entangling snares and lies of Darkness, and be made free to walk in and with "the Light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world." That is what Darkness fears and why he works day and night to continually try to make sure that when the Light comes, the souls who are made for that Light will be ashamed.

I do not know Jesse, if you ever sensed any darkness in your search for light as I think I did, but that is maybe why I sometimes have concerns about the music that accompanied my close brush with spiritual death. Beauty, created by God or the creature made in His image, is assuredly good subject matter for contemplation. Do you believe that "beauty in the eye of the beholder thing"? You seem sympathetic to bukowski's way. I guess I am too Thomistic for that. I think there must be principles that apply to all things that are truly beautiful. I just need to find out what they are. Heh.

Anyway..."once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places..."! Thanks for sharing your own strange places my brother. Enjoy the music unless you get something in your conscience about it like I occasionally do...and a very Blessed Holy Week and Happy Easter to you and yours.

Regards,

Rory

 

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by 3DOP

[Stargazer]

On 4/10/2017 at 0:48 PM, MiserereNobis said:

No, this is not about those who have accepted proxy ordinances

The good ol' Grateful Dead have appeared in two threads now (inventing a new religion, reality and hallucinations) with a few people chiming in.  I swear I had nothing to do with it!

So, let's consolidate here -- it's our shakedown street lot scene.

What shows are you listening to now?

What shows are required listening?

What do you think of post-Jerry Dead?  Anyone going to Dead & Company this summer?

Best show memory?  Synchronicity?

Any Wharf Rats? (I'm wondering how Mormon Deadheads feel about the band's drug culture)

Anything else?

 

What's this about Jerry Garcia being dead?

 

[MiserereNobis]

8 hours ago, Stargazer said:

What's this about Jerry Garcia being dead?

 

[MiserereNobis]

13 hours ago, 3DOP said:

You used peyote so I know you must have read Carlos Castaneda too. It sounds like neither of us had any religion growing up. I think there were probably a lot of us who wanted light, but not necessarily the Light of the World. I just wanted to know things. I wanted insight and what I thought wisdom was. But there was a conflict. I had also seen this guy on TV one night who made me scared that the Bible and Christianity was true. As I remember, I was reading the BIble already when I was still a little more desirous of light without the Light. I did a foolish thing by appealing to Darkness for light instead. I had reasoned that if I became certain that the Darkness was real, I would know that the Light was real, and I could make the right choice. Anyway, the Darkness became more real to me and it seemed like I was getting light, as I had asked for.

I was at a friend's apartment up at the Univ. of Washington and we were smoking some pot, ordinary stuff, "dirt weed" as we called it, but it lately had been affecting me much more than it ever had for the four or five years I had been using. It got late. He and his girl friend went to bed and I just stayed high all night long...without any stimulant. Darkness was revealing himself to me all through the morning hours as my slave master, saying that I belonged to him, and I could never escape. That was the last time I ever took that kind of drug. 

I suppose it was just human respect, but I was ashamed to reveal to anyone that I was beginning to believe in God and in Christ. Like you said, "poor Christianity is a pariah". My family was irreligious so I didn't know how they would take it. I think I finally got a few hours of sleep that night, but when I woke up, the waking nightmare was with me again. This oppression stayed with me as I made my way down Interstate 5. It was right in front of the old Olympia brewery in Tumwater, WA that I had a flat tire. I don't remember all the details of that cold and wet February morning. I remember the heavy road spray as I numbly trudged up the shoulder to a find a jack or a new tire, maybe both. Later, I think the car wouldn't start after I had stopped for snacks somewhere. I must have gotten a push start or a jump. I didn't care much. The oppression was still there telling me I would never get away. Such malice. I don't remember the reasoning process, but I remember that in my misery, while I was driving, I know I was driving again, I think the rain had stopped, I told God that if I were deliverable, would He please help me, and that if He helped me, I would tell people that I believed in Him...and I was freed! I was crying for joy by myself knowing that I was free. 

God loves hippies for sure, as well as curious and foolish kids. Heh. Its overused...but what long strange trips?!?!  It makes me happy now to recall that day over forty years ago. I don't think about it very much anymore. It could have been my imagination, but I doubt it. In any case, I eventually kept my end of the bargain, telling incredulous family and friends. I don't believe because of this experience. I didn't need to know the Darkness to have faith. For obvious reasons, I am afraid for those who might be seeking for light the way I did. I couldn't have lived with that oppression very long. But I am also sure that whoever might get into such trouble, so long as they do live, can always be freed of the entangling snares and lies of Darkness, and be made free to walk in and with "the Light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world." That is what Darkness fears and why he works day and night to continually try to make sure that when the Light comes, the souls who are made for that Light will be ashamed.

I do not know Jesse, if you ever sensed any darkness in your search for light as I think I did, but that is maybe why I sometimes have concerns about the music that accompanied my close brush with spiritual death. Beauty, created by God or the creature made in His image, is assuredly good subject matter for contemplation. Do you believe that "beauty in the eye of the beholder thing"? You seem sympathetic to bukowski's way. I guess I am too Thomistic for that. I think there must be principles that apply to all things that are truly beautiful. I just need to find out what they are. Heh.

Anyway..."once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places..."! Thanks for sharing your own strange places my brother. Enjoy the music unless you get something in your conscience about it like I occasionally do...and a very Blessed Holy Week and Happy Easter to you and yours.

Regards,

Rory

Thanks for sharing your story, Rory.  I've never had a brush with darkness like you describe, though I've definitely had moments of darkness and moments of intense awareness of my own spiritual death, were it not for Our Savior.  

Like you, I believe that there are principles that apply to all things beautiful.  The Good, the True, and the Beautiful all lead us towards God.  I also think there is a good amount of wiggle room in there for personal preferences.  The role of art in religion is a deeply complex one.  Deus gratias that we are not puritans and iconoclasts!

Happy Easter to you, too!

[MiserereNobis]

17 hours ago, Spammer said:

You'll get no argument from me.  I love that the Dead typically primed their audience with rockers and cowboy songs during Set 1, then sought to break down barriers with their excursions and flights of fancy afterward. 

Yes, they certainly knew how to structure a show.  It was kinda strange after Jerry's death how they started to change that.  I'm thinking of The Dead tours of like '03 and '04 where second set songs would end up in the first set.  I'm not ready for Dark Star the third song in!

Quote

I hear you about Brent.  I really like his harmonies, but not his self-penned Dead tunes.  I've never really liked them that much.  They pale in comparison to the Jerry/Hunter and Weir/Barlow songs.  But on that 12/28 show, right off the bat with that gorgeous Sugaree, his backup vocals are on point and perfectly harmonic.  I think I prefer Brent on backup more than Donna, except for her signature caterwaul during Playin' in the Band, which is inseperable from the song in my mind.  I'm always waiting for it when I'm listening to Playin' from other eras. I know some Deadheads who can't stand it when she yells during Playin'.  Funny how that works. 

I know it's hip in the Dead world to rag on Donna, but I don't mind her much at all.  Sure, she can be off tune sometimes (especially coming in on Scarlet Begonias) but hey, let's be honest, there are many times the boys have epic fails at harmonies, too.  And I don't want to toss out the '70s just because Donna is singing, ha.

I love her caterwaul, too.  Also, her humming and moaning in the bridge between Scarlet and Fire is noteworthy.  If I'm in the right mood, I can really enjoy her "Sunrise," too.

Quote

Probably my favorite musical Brent moment was at my sole Dead show.  6/21/89 at the Shoreline Amphitheater.  He just kills it on the organ during Minglewood.  For my only Dead show, I could have done a lot worse than that one.  It was the summer solstice in California, there were technical difficulties with Bobby's rig at the beginning and Bobby (in his signature short shorts) got really mad. The crowd chanted for a Phil song and was rewarded with a rare Box of Rain; Jerry actually pulled off some great soloing during Cassidy (until he petered off at the end); we had Clarence Clemmons adding some sax to Eyes of the World; a nice Morning Dew and a gorgeous Brokedown Palace at the end.   It was also filmed for posterity and is on youtube.  I have no complaints

Is this the show were Bobby kicks his rig?  I've got a memory of watching a show where he does that right before the start the first set.  I'll have to check it out on youtube.

Ha! Just watched the beginning.  Bobby does kick it.  I like Jerry's amused look as he noodles around watching them try to fix it...

[MiserereNobis]

We could expand this to Bob Dylan, too.  You know, Dylan and the Dead tour.  And let's not forget Postcards of the Hanging:

Did you all see that Dylan finally accepted his Nobel Prize? I kinda loved that he was initially somewhat dismissive about it... classic Dylan.

[Spammer]

On 4/12/2017 at 11:40 AM, MiserereNobis said:

Yes, they certainly knew how to structure a show.  It was kinda strange after Jerry's death how they started to change that.  I'm thinking of The Dead tours of like '03 and '04 where second set songs would end up in the first set.  I'm not ready for Dark Star the third song in!

I know it's hip in the Dead world to rag on Donna, but I don't mind her much at all.  Sure, she can be off tune sometimes (especially coming in on Scarlet Begonias) but hey, let's be honest, there are many times the boys have epic fails at harmonies, too.  And I don't want to toss out the '70s just because Donna is singing, ha.

I love her caterwaul, too.  Also, her humming and moaning in the bridge between Scarlet and Fire is noteworthy.  If I'm in the right mood, I can really enjoy her "Sunrise," too.

Is this the show were Bobby kicks his rig?  I've got a memory of watching a show where he does that right before the start the first set.  I'll have to check it out on youtube.

Ha! Just watched the beginning.  Bobby does kick it.  I like Jerry's amused look as he noodles around watching them try to fix it...

Yep, he kicked that rig!  That was my show. I was only just starting to get into the Dead at that time. I'm one of those Gen X'rs who Touch of Grey pulled in. It was released just a few months after my mission. I was only a two-year old Deadhead, so to speak, in June 89, and knew next to nothing about taping and trading and the joys of the live recordings, until some guy walked into the record store where I was working to help pay for college and handed me a tape after we started chatting about the Dead. Talk about a paradigm shift!

Im ok with Donna.  I also really like Keith's piano playing. Have you heard the 9/21/72 philly show?  During Bird Song, Jerry's amp blew and Keith stepped in with some nice, Vince Guaraldi-like improvisation.  Mellow and smooth. 

Have you seen this? It's from one of my favorite music blogs. They lean experimental, psych and avant garde, but they sometimes cover obscure folk, rock and roll, and it seems they have a Deadhead on staff.

http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/category/dead-notes/

 

 

Edited April 14, 2017 by Spammer

[Spammer]

On 4/11/2017 at 1:42 PM, MiserereNobis said:

It's an issue with a long history... how to deal with artists who create beauty but whose lives are a moral mess.

That Osmond video is hilarious!  Have you seen this classic by Bobby?

Umm...what just happened?

 

 

[MiserereNobis]

6 hours ago, Spammer said:

Yep, he kicked that rig!  That was my show. I was only just starting to get into the Dead at that time. I'm one of those Gen X'rs who Touch of Grey pulled in. It was released just a few months after my mission. I was only a two-year old Deadhead, so to speak, in June 89, and new next to nothing about taping and trading and the joys of the live recordings, until some guy walked into the record store where I was working to help pay for college and handed me a tape after we started chatting about the Dead. Talk about a paradigm shift!

Im ok with Donna.  I also really like Keith's piano playing. Have you heard the 9/21/72 philly show?  During Bird Song, Jerry's amp blew and Keith stepped in with some nice, Vince Guaraldi-like improvisation.  Mellow and smooth. 

Have you seen this? It's from one of my favorite music blogs. They lean experimental, psych and avant garde, but they sometimes cover obscure folk, rock and roll, and it seems they have a Deadhead on staff.

http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/category/dead-notes/

 

 

Cool! Thanks for turning me into that blog. I'm having fun poking around ("just gotta poke around...")

[MiserereNobis]

5 hours ago, Spammer said:

Umm...what just happened?

Yeah, right?  That was some pretty good filth...

[rodheadlee]

The Grateful Dead was the only concert I fell asleep at. It was about 1978 maybe 77.

[MiserereNobis]

On 4/19/2017 at 5:58 PM, rodheadlee said:

The Grateful Dead was the only concert I fell asleep at. It was about 1978 maybe 77.

1977... one of their best years... I guess they just didn't do it for ya