"Rich people lie more often than the poor" study...

[Tacenda]

http://www.livescience.com/18683-rich-people-lie-cheat-study.html Thought I'd share this. I heard it on the radio and something sparked my memory of it over on the thread about the City Creek Mall. 

http://www.moneytalksnews.com/study-wealthy-people-are-more-likely-to-lie-cheat-and-take-candy-from-kids/

Should we be more leary of the rich vs. the poor? 

[thesometimesaint]

No. We should be leery of those that love money. Whether they are rich, middle class or poor.

Edited March 26, 2017 by thesometimesaint

[Calm]

". When then presented with a jar of candy ostensibly for kids in a nearby lab, those made to feel as if they were upper class took more candy that would otherwise go to children, findings that suggest the experience of higher social class might nudge one to act unethically"

Meaning what exactly?  They were offered candy and took more or they took without asking when no one was looking.

Wealthier people are more willing to admit wrong doing...not necessarily committed more, if I understand the study correctly.  I see it as possible that they commit the same unethical actions, but because of their wealth feel protected from consequences and therefore are willing to admit to then more easily.

[juliann]

Is there anything that doesn't remind you of something awful about the church? 

Have you kept up at all about how bogus psychological "research" is?
 

Quote

 http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/scientists-replicated-100-psychology-studies-and-fewer-half-got-same-results-180956426/

According to work presented today in Science, fewer than half of 100 studies published in 2008 in three top psychology journals could be replicated successfully. 

 

 

[bcuzbcuz]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

 

Wealthier people are more willing to admit wrong doing...not necessarily committed more, if I understand the study correctly.  I see it as possible that they commit the same unethical actions, but because of their wealth feel protected from consequences and therefore are willing to admit to then more easily.

And we definitely see that reflected in the number of wealthy (throughout the world) that are incarcerated compared to those of lesser means??

[MormonVideoGame]

"it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" 

Edited March 26, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[Rain]

"Other studies have shown that upper-class individuals are often less cognizant of others, worse at identifying the emotions others feel, less generous and altruistic, and more disengaged socially — for instance, checking their cellphones or doodling on paper during social interactions. Such research might support these new findings — it may be easier to act unethically toward others if you are not thinking about how they feel."

Interesting that they use doodling on paper as a sign of being disengaged socially. Yes, it could be, but recently I read how those that doodled in meetings thought of more creative solutions and had more positive feelings towards the meetings. 

Sometimes a lot of assumptions take place in studies like this. 

"They estimated the social class of drivers based on vehicle make, age and appearance, and discovered that drivers of upper-class cars cut off other cars and pedestrians more often."

In other words they judged on appearance, not necessarily on class.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, bcuzbcuz said:

And we definitely see that reflected in the number of wealthy (throughout the world) that are incarcerated compared to those of lesser means??

Well yeah, since the wealthy when committing the same crime tend to have lesser sentences and may skip jail time altogether.  This may just be the US, though in Russia it was well known while we were there that the wealthy generally had ties to criminals (I can't remember any reported that hadn't been under investigation).  I doubt that Russia can be applied to other nonUS countries though.  Certainly would never think Canada had the same level of corruption.  

In case you want a CFR, this seems the best of a quick skimthat wasn't behind a paywall, though I don't know what its bias is:

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2010/jul/15/celebrity-justice-prison-lifestyles-of-the-rich-and-famous/

[probablyHagoth7]

6 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Should we be more leary of the rich vs. the poor? 

 

We should be most leery of pride...in the mirror.

It is much too easy to wax proud of our own supposed humility. 

Wouldn't you agree?

Edited March 26, 2017 by probablyHagoth7

[The Nehor]

I have a modest proposal. Couldn't we solve the rich vs poor problem by eating all the rich?

[Rain]

Remind me to never go somewhere I might meet Nehor just in case a wealthy, long lost, relative leaves me lots of money.

[probablyHagoth7]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I have a modest proposal. Couldn't we solve the rich vs poor problem by eating all the rich?

What then of those poorer than you?

Edited March 27, 2017 by probablyHagoth7

[Robert F. Smith]

13 hours ago, Tacenda said:

http://www.livescience.com/18683-rich-people-lie-cheat-study.html Thought I'd share this. I heard it on the radio and something sparked my memory of it over on the thread about the City Creek Mall. 

http://www.moneytalksnews.com/study-wealthy-people-are-more-likely-to-lie-cheat-and-take-candy-from-kids/

Should we be more leary of the rich vs. the poor? 

Matthew 19:23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When the disciples heard this they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

[Calm]

Robert, it would appear you are in line with the original intent:

https://www.churchhistorianspress.org/the-first-fifty-years-of-relief-society/part-1/1-2/1-2-1

As soon as Emma was set apart, she was referred to as Prest. Emma Smith or Pres. E Smith in every instance that she spoke.  For example:

"Prest. Emma Smith, said the popularity of the word benevolent is one great objection— no person can think of the word as associated with public Institutions, without thinking of the Washingtonian Benevolent Society which was one of the most corrupt Institutions of the day— do not wish to have it call’d after other Societies in the world—16

Prest. J. Smith arose to state that he had no objection to the word Relief— that on question they ought to deliberate candidly and investigate all subjects."

[probablyHagoth7]

8 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Matthew 19:23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When the disciples heard this they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

 

Attended an education week session a year or two ago that addressed that last question extensively.

[stemelbow]

Growing up I was like, "hecks yeah, baby.  I'm poor and it's impossible for a rich man to get to heaven".  Because I compared my family's social status with our immediately neighbors.  One day I realized how rich we were compared to the rest of the world and I cried.  This is a weird study in a tiny little culture it seems.  Id' question it but there's nothing in the links that really describes it, not very well anyway.  I don't really get if it's a good reliable study or not.  Everybody, as far as I can tell, is a bit dishonest in some ways.  How we measure whose the mostest dishonest is such a subjective line drawn in the sand.  I think there are definite lines drawn, but for most of us, we're all in the same camp, it feels like to me when it comes to honesty. 

[rodheadlee]

22 hours ago, Tacenda said:

http://www.livescience.com/18683-rich-people-lie-cheat-study.html Thought I'd share this. I heard it on the radio and something sparked my memory of it over on the thread about the City Creek Mall. 

http://www.moneytalksnews.com/study-wealthy-people-are-more-likely-to-lie-cheat-and-take-candy-from-kids/

Should we be more leary of the rich vs. the poor? 

Of course, how do you think they got rich? If I had all of the money I have been screwed out of by rich people I wouldn't have to work during my retirement.

[Guest]

On March 26, 2017 at 1:26 PM, thesometimesaint said:

No. We should be leery of those that love money. Whether they are rich, middle class or poor.

"The love of money is the root of all evil". But how could anyone know which is which when it comes to such matters? Sadly too many believe that the rich are evil, or that they love money more than all else. Not all rich are evil, as many are very charitable and have Christlike love. In addition many of the poor have Christlike love, and give all that they can, to help others. So dispite silly surveying, no one knows who lies the most...in fact such polling is the product of preconceived bias, where it is popular to assume the rich are evil or that lying and cheating is the only way to gain wealth, not to mention theft. Be it lying, or bearing false witness, the rich (from the outside looking in) is how the poor view (or the media, acting like they champion and represent the poor) anyone who have more. I have a number of family who lack ambition who speak to others and friends who share with me how they lament what I have, even to the point of anger. My home in which I live was paided for with cash, and I have little debt...very little. So I often hear comments made to me and overheard about how "It must be nice", and other comments dripping with sarcasm, "I wish I was so lucky". It is not luck, just hard work (for 25+ years)...working two, sometimes three jobs. Working a full time job, teaching nights at a local college, and doing electrical work on the weekends that made it possible. Sometimes when I remind them that the fact that I did so, I hear comments like, "I am tired enough already" or "I barely have a life already". I am nowhere near rich or even comfortable, but I don't need the world to be happy. 

Even while in the Army, I faced the demands, a young family, but attended night classes at a nearby colleges (except while Germany) while stateside. For the last 15 years, I have taught and lectured at different colleges and universities to earn money. The classes I attended to learn more about Electrical Mathmatics, theory and code, have enabled me to gain every license and certification possible needed for my job, which allowed me to teach. Then while serving in law enforcement, I still sought after more classes. So for ten years before I broke my back, I taught four to eight hour seminars at Georgia Tech University, University of Georgia (go Dogs...or as we say it "go Dawgs"), local colleges, and for companies or associations. The reason that most classes are four hours is because the State requires four hours of continuing education each year for licensed Electricians to keep their license. My min fee is $150.00 per hour, or a % of the money raised by companies or associations, so many times I make even more, at times as much as $600.00 an hour, for those four hours. Due to my back injury, I cannot teach as much as I used too. When I do teach, I would almost pay them...just for getting me out of the house. Now-a-days, I have to have my sons drive me to class so I can take something to deal with my back pain. When it is my youngest son I will pay him...but I have to hide it in his center console so he will think it was just misplace money. My oldest son caught on and brings it back slipping it into my wife's purse. Anyway...long way around, the rich and the poor have the same flaws are do we all. 

[clarkgoble]

You should always be cautious with these sorts of studies. Obvious questions are what is the sample size? How representative are the subjects? i.e. is this just a phenomena of rich/poor who live around Berkeley? Would it replicate in other locations? How distributed are the ages? i.e. are we comparing like verses like or poor young people with rich old people? And that ignores the question someone else brought up of replication.

Doing some quick searching it sounds like these studies, as with far too many psychological studies, just draw from the student body at the university in question. Given the nature of Berkeley I'm not sure it's a terribly representative sample of much.

[SteveO]

So the point of the OP is that:

A study suggests the rich are more willing to lie more than the poor-->

The church is extremely wealthy and prosperous-->

The church is probably lying about its financial investments-->

We really shouldn't believe what the church tells us

That sound about right?

Tacenda, I used to like your posts in the past...now all I hear is the grinding of an ax

 

[Jeanne]

I am just curious about one thing...and this is because on my walks around my very mormon community..I see trucks, trailers, snowmobiles, 3 wheelers..all in front of huge homesand I.have to wonder are they more in debt than most??  Of course, this isn't about lying..but we have some very competitive families here.  I ask myself.what do these people do for a living?????

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, SteveO said:

So the point of the OP is that:

A study suggests the rich are more willing to lie more than the poor-->

The church is extremely wealthy and prosperous-->

The church is probably lying about its financial investments-->

We really shouldn't believe what the church tells us

That sound about right?

Tacenda, I used to like your posts in the past...now all I hear is the grinding of an ax

 

Sorry to disappoint. I actually think that it's sixes that both lie, cheat and steal.

ETA: Wait, back up...I didn't mention 1,2, or 3 of your list on my post. Where did you get that at? Putting words into my post are you.  

I refute that I think the church lies, it just isn't transparent. I disagree that we shouldn't believe what the church tells us. I'd just like it to tell us what it purports to tell us, the one time in General Conference when Pres. Hinckley said we as members know where our tithing goes. Yes, the church is extremely wealthy, but I don't think they are crooks just that they could do better humanitarian wise with the members money, or don't you think members want more to go there? 

Edited March 28, 2017 by Tacenda

[Calm]

6 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I am just curious about one thing...and this is because on my walks around my very mormon community..I see trucks, trailers, snowmobiles, 3 wheelers..all in front of huge homesand I.have to wonder are they more in debt than most??  Of course, this isn't about lying..but we have some very competitive families here.  I ask myself.what do these people do for a living?????

Could be your neighborhood.  Not in mine  (and we have a number of wealthy people).  A number of lovely homes, some obviously high end, but don't see the other stuff much.

Add-on:  in case I wasn't clear, I do think people don't usually think too much about wanting something not of the usual staples like a house or car unless they see it visually (really obvious point, think food commercials).  If a person brings in a new toy to the neighborhood, then as others see it, they will start considering the advantages of having it.  See it multiple times and they might talk themselves into having it.  So one person getting something might lead to a number of people getting it.  Only thing that may have happened like that in my neighborhood is chickens.  There were a couple of years neighbors decided to experiment based on good reports from other neighbors (fresh eggs and they ate the grasshoppers which were a big trouble at that time); a number of them stuck to it; others didn't.  Easier  to get rid of a chicken than an RV.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Calm

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I am just curious about one thing...and this is because on my walks around my very mormon community..I see trucks, trailers, snowmobiles, 3 wheelers..all in front of huge homesand I.have to wonder are they more in debt than most??  Of course, this isn't about lying..but we have some very competitive families here.  I ask myself.what do these people do for a living?????

Many are like this:

 

[SteveO]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Sorry to disappoint. I actually think that it's sixes that both lie, cheat and steal.

ETA: Wait, back up...I didn't mention 1,2, or 3 of your list on my post. Where did you get that at? Putting words into my post are you.  

I refute that I think the church lies, it just isn't transparent. I disagree that we shouldn't believe what the church tells us. I'd just like it to tell us what it purports to tell us, the one time in General Conference when Pres. Hinckley said we as members know where our tithing goes. Yes, the church is extremely wealthy, but I don't think they are crooks just that they could do better humanitarian wise with the members money, or don't you think members want more to go there? 

You said in the OP:

"something sparked my memory of it over on the thread about the City Creek Mall."

What am I supposed to think?

Why is it beyond the pale to arrive at the conclusion you are suggesting a link between the study and the church? 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2017 by SteveO