Ouagadougou Posted February 22, 2017 Author Posted February 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Storm Rider said: However, last time I heard not a single one of us has the appointed the judge of all humanity It's pretty safe to say, IMO, Hitler was pure evil. Not really that hard to judge, dude.
Popular Post Storm Rider Posted February 22, 2017 Popular Post Posted February 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ouagadougou said: It's pretty safe to say, IMO, Hitler was pure evil. Not really that hard to judge, dude. Dude, you don't have to do his work. Be happy. If someone else does his work and God remains the judge, exactly what is it to you? Are you going to argue against God for judging him? Do you think vicarious ordinances will save Hitler automatically? Do you understand that the ordinances don't save a single person unless God judges they repented? Where in the scriptures are you empowered to judge humanity? 5
Ahab Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Ouagadougou said: It's pretty safe to say, IMO, Hitler was pure evil. Not really that hard to judge, dude. Key word is "was". Will always be? Maybe not. Evil is a result of stupidity and people who do stupid/evil things may someday become intelligent enough to realize how much stupid/evil stuff they have done and maybe, just maybe, desire to repent and turn away from their evil/stupid ways as much as they can.
Traela Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 It all boils down to whether Hitler was accountable. There's a high enough possibility of mental illness that I'm not going make a ruling (although I certainly wouldn't rush to do his work unless an angel with a sword was standing over me). There's also the question if he would even accept the work. He may very well be saying, "Excuse me? You want me to be baptized along with all those Jews and Gypsies? I don't think so." 3
Duncan Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 Just now, Traela said: It all boils down to whether Hitler was accountable. There's a high enough possibility of mental illness that I'm not going make a ruling (although I certainly wouldn't rush to do his work unless an angel with a sword was standing over me). There's also the question if he would even accept the work. He may very well be saying, "Excuse me? You want me to be baptized along with all those Jews and Gypsies? I don't think so." all of which none of us know so leave it to God, who does! 1
Calm Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Ouagadougou said: He was very calculated at what he did and showed to remorse. I have 0% empathy for Hitler...sorry...but 0%. I don't either. However, that doesn't demonstrate he was fully culpable for his actions, does it? 1
Ouagadougou Posted February 22, 2017 Author Posted February 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, Calm said: I don't either. However, that doesn't demonstrate he was fully culpable for his actions, does it? He was very calculated in what he did and HE is to fault for what he did. Lots of people have had hard lives and poor parents, etc.; however, they don't do what he did and kill. I think he is fully culpable for what he did in this life. Any way you try to slice it, it is an absolute embarrassment that this took place in the temple. 1
Duncan Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 Just now, Ouagadougou said: He was very calculated in what he did and HE is to fault for what he did. Lots of people have had hard lives and poor parents, etc.; however, they don't do what he did and kill. I think he is fully culpable for what he did in this life. Any way you try to slice it, it is an absolute embarrassment that this took place in the temple. Do you know everything about Hitler? heck, have you even met him? why is it so hard to accept that God alone will judge him? he's dead to us, it's done, that ship sailed years ago 1
Ouagadougou Posted February 22, 2017 Author Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Duncan said: Do you know everything about Hitler? heck, have you even met him? why is it so hard to accept that God alone will judge him? he's dead to us, it's done, that ship sailed years ago Of course not -- but it isn't hard to figure out how bad he was -- go read any WWII history book. My grandpas fought in WWII and saw a lot; my great uncle liberated concentration camps in Europe. God will judge us all -- but it's apparent Hitler shouldn't be receiving temple ordinances -- just go read any SP or bishop's manual. Hitler technically isn't dead, if he was baptized by proxy for the dead, right? Good deflection though...try to put the focus on me inside of the fact that Hitler got his temple work done (sealings and endowment). This means on multiple occasions people saw: "Adolf Hitler died 30 April 1945 Berlin, Germany" This was for baptism, sealing to wife and parents/endowments. Absolutely cringeworthy! Edited February 22, 2017 by Ouagadougou
sjdawg Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 3 hours ago, bluebell said: You aren't understanding. No one is defending his baptism because he's worthy of it. What is being defended is the idea that we can't say who is capable of repentance and who isn't. Only God can say that. It is just remarkable that Hitler can be baptized but 8 year old child of gay parents can't be. Seems reasonable. I'd also say that baptizing Hitler makes it even more offensive that the church was also doing (at one point) baptisms for victims of the Holocaust. 1
Duncan Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 Just now, Ouagadougou said: Of course not -- but it isn't hard to figure out how bad he was -- go read any WWII history book. My grandpas fought in WWII and saw a lot; my great uncle liberated concentration camps in Europe. God will judge us all -- but it's apparent Hitler shouldn't be receiving temple ordinances -- just go read any SP or bishop's manual. Hitler technically isn't dead, if he was baptized by proxy for the dead, right? Go deflection though...try to put the focus on me inside of the fact that Hitler got his temple work done (sealings and endowment). This mean on multiple occasions people saw: "Adolf Hitler died 30 April 1945 Berlin, Germany" This was for baptism, sealing to wife and parents and endowments. Absolutely cringeworthy! For the 30th time NOBODY here is defending Hitler's actions, he was a bad guy, we all get that but to decide should he not have an opportunity for the gospel is the height of arrogance, will he or will he not accept it? WHO KNOWS! not me and not you. There is a God and we're not him, I fully trust that God will take care of Hitler, however and whatever shape that is in and I won't be consulted and i'm fine with that, i'm good! My Uncle was in the German Navy in WW2, my dad has two German Uncles who fought the Russians in WW2 and both were POW's and they both survived, my dad's dad was in training in the German Artillery in WW1. Hitler is dead to us, his mortal body has given up the ghost, he's alive and well in the next life and i'm down with that 1
Calm Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, sjdawg said: It is just remarkable that Hitler can be baptized but 8 year old child of gay parents can't be. Seems reasonable. I'd also say that baptizing Hitler makes it even more offensive that the church was also doing (at one point) baptisms for victims of the Holocaust. If Hitler was living, he wouldn't be give permission to be baptized more than likely. It is only the circumstance that he is dead that allows for it, imo. Any 8 year old will be able to be baptized in the future, whether because they have grown to the age of 18 and above and made the choice or have died and had proxy work done. So in the end, same as Hitler...and everyone else.
Calm Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 Maybe someone decided to baptize him now rather than wait till there was no one else left to do because they expect him to reject the Gospel and they figured this would get him away from those who are in hell simply through ignorance. 1
Ouagadougou Posted February 22, 2017 Author Posted February 22, 2017 8 minutes ago, Duncan said: For the 30th time NOBODY here is defending Hitler's actions, he was a bad guy, we all get that but to decide should he not have an opportunity for the gospel is the height of arrogance, will he or will he not accept it? WHO KNOWS! not me and not you. There is a God and we're not him, I fully trust that God will take care of Hitler, however and whatever shape that is in and I won't be consulted and i'm fine with that, i'm good! My Uncle was in the German Navy in WW2, my dad has two German Uncles who fought the Russians in WW2 and both were POW's and they both survived, my dad's dad was in training in the German Artillery in WW1. Hitler is dead to us, his mortal body has given up the ghost, he's alive and well in the next life and i'm down with that You are defending the fact that he was baptized/sealed in the temple and received his endowments. Instead of just admitting that it's disgraceful and embarrisng that this occurred, you are playing mental gymnastics and trying to make a special place for Hitler in the plan of salvation. The cognitive dissonance is at an extremely high level on this thread -- many here (like you) look for justifications as to why this occurred instead of admitting it was a mistake. If you don't believe it was a mistake, then I don't know what to tell a person that believes such a "bad guy" needs the blessings of the temple. Ok, God will take care of Hitler, but he clearly has no place in the LORD's holy temple.
Ouagadougou Posted February 22, 2017 Author Posted February 22, 2017 6 minutes ago, Calm said: Maybe someone decided to baptize him now rather than wait till there was no one else left to do because they expect him to reject the Gospel and they figured this would get him away from those who are in hell simply through ignorance. Wow...really? Or maybe it was just a cringe-worthy mistake, which is now an embarrassment for the whole world to see.
JLHPROF Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Ouagadougou said: You are defending the fact that he was baptized/sealed in the temple and received his endowments. Instead of just admitting that it's disgraceful and embarrisng that this occurred, you are playing mental gymnastics and trying to make a special place for Hitler in the plan of salvation. The cognitive dissonance is at an extremely high level on this thread -- many here (like you) look for justifications as to why this occurred instead of admitting it was a mistake. If you don't believe it was a mistake, then I don't know what to tell a person that believes such a "bad guy" needs the blessings of the temple. Ok, God will take care of Hitler, but he clearly has no place in the LORD's holy temple. It all comes down to judging who is worthy and not worthy to receive work for the dead. There is NO commandment to do that. God expects the work done for everyone. That is OUR job. There are many people for whom the work will be totally ineffective. That in no way absolves us of the commandment. 2
Duncan Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 Just now, Ouagadougou said: You are defending the fact that he was baptized/sealed in the temple and received his endowments. Instead of just admitting that it's disgraceful and embarrisng that this occurred, you are playing mental gymnastics and trying to make a special place for Hitler in the plan of salvation. The cognitive dissonance is at an extremely high level on this thread -- many here (like you) look for justifications as to why this occurred instead of admitting it was a mistake. If you don't believe it was a mistake, then I don't know what to tell a person that believes such a "bad guy" needs the blessings of the temple. Ok, God will take care of Hitler, but he clearly has no place in the LORD's holy temple. Ever wonder why it's called the Lord's House and not Ogopogo's house? Maybe the Lord has a bit more knowledge of Hitler than you do. You are reading things into my responses, "special place"??? Remember what Christ said, "They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. " We all agree Hitler was a sick guy, will he receive his blessings? again who knows if he does or doesn't that's not on me or you Do you believe Christ's atonement is infinite or not? 2
Ouagadougou Posted February 22, 2017 Author Posted February 22, 2017 17 minutes ago, sjdawg said: It is just remarkable that Hitler can be baptized but 8 year old child of gay parents can't be. Seems reasonable. I'd also say that baptizing Hitler makes it even more offensive that the church was also doing (at one point) baptisms for victims of the Holocaust. Remarkable isn't the right word -- more like abhorrent. It's a slap in the face to some many people in he world who suffered as a result of Hitler's choices. But God wants everyone to enjoy the blessings of the temple, according to some...
JLHPROF Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Duncan said: Ever wonder why it's called the Lord's House and not Ogopogo's house? Maybe the Lord has a bit more knowledge of Hitler than you do. You are reading things into my responses, "special place"??? Remember what Christ said, "They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. " We all agree Hitler was a sick guy, will he receive his blessings? again who knows if he does or doesn't that's not on me or you Do you believe Christ's atonement is infinite or not? In all fairness to Ouagadougou's false outrage, he does have a point. We can pretend that judgement will be God's and "who knows", but we do know. We know what the unforgivable sins are. We know what Hitler was guilty of. I don't have any doubt whether or not Hitler will be able to enter the Celestial Kingdom (baptism being the gate to pass through). So yes, he is right, it is a pointless ordinance. Except for the fact God expects it. 1
Duncan Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 Just now, Ouagadougou said: Remarkable isn't the right word -- more like abhorrent. It's a slap in the face to some many people in he world who suffered as a result of Hitler's choices. But God wants everyone to enjoy the blessings of the temple, according to some... read this https://www.lds.org/ensign/2011/03/the-healers-art?lang=eng
Ouagadougou Posted February 22, 2017 Author Posted February 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Duncan said: Ever wonder why it's called the Lord's House and not Ogopogo's house? Maybe the Lord has a bit more knowledge of Hitler than you do. You are reading things into my responses, "special place"??? Remember what Christ said, "They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. " We all agree Hitler was a sick guy, will he receive his blessings? again who knows if he does or doesn't that's not on me or you Do you believe Christ's atonement is infinite or not? I believe in the atonement but that Hitler should never be baptized, receive endowments, be sealed to his wife and parents. People can't get a temple recommend if they drink coffee or pay tithing...but Hitler kills millions and gets the same work done. Makes 0% sense. The amount of mental gymnastics people must do to make Hitler's temple baptism, endowment, marriage/seaing is mind-numbing I bet. I guess you think Hitler is misunderstood and God understands him better, so he needs a chance just like the rest? Ordering the deaths of ~ 11 MILLION people isn't enough to show he should be allowed baptism or other temple ordinances?
Ouagadougou Posted February 22, 2017 Author Posted February 22, 2017 17 minutes ago, Ahab said: He was clearly wrong in some of his views. He believed a lot of bad things, and acted according to his bad beliefs. But maybe, just maybe, Hitler may someday discover that his bad beliefs were bad, and want to repent from acting on bad beliefs, and accept good beliefs instead of his bad/false/evil beliefs. So that God may bless him with as much good stuff as God us able to give. I hope so, and believe it is possible with God's help. Ok. Well, I think he was a garbage of a human and trying to justify his baptism (and sealings/endowment) as legitimate is just an illustration of cognitive dissonance at an extremely high level. Yeah, poor Hitler just needs to repent because he needs God's blessings...I don't buy that for a second.
Duncan Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 Just now, JLHPROF said: In all fairness to Ouagadougou's false outrage, he does have a point. We can pretend that judgement will be God's and "who knows", but we do know. We know what the unforgivable sins are. We know what Hitler was guilty of. I don't have any doubt whether or not Hitler will be able to enter the Celestial Kingdom (baptism being the gate to pass through). So yes, he is right, it is a pointless ordinance. Except for the fact God expects it. Final judgement is God's though and will he accept all these ordinances? who knows? he needs the ordinances as much as I do!
Ouagadougou Posted February 22, 2017 Author Posted February 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: In all fairness to Ouagadougou's false outrage, he does have a point. We can pretend that judgement will be God's and "who knows", but we do know. We know what the unforgivable sins are. We know what Hitler was guilty of. I don't have any doubt whether or not Hitler will be able to enter the Celestial Kingdom (baptism being the gate to pass through). So yes, he is right, it is a pointless ordinance. Except for the fact God expects it. False outrage huh? 😀 I'm so glad you know how I feel 👍
Duncan Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 Just now, Ouagadougou said: I believe in the atonement but that Hitler should never be baptized, receive endowments, be sealed to his wife and parents. People can't get a temple recommend if they drink coffee or pay tithing...but Hitler kills millions and gets the same work done. Makes 0% sense. The amount of mental gymnastics people must do to make Hitler's temple baptism, endowment, marriage/seaing is mind-numbing I bet. I guess you think Hitler is misunderstood and God understands him better, so he needs a chance just like the rest? Ordering the deaths of ~ 11 MILLION people isn't enough to show he should be allowed baptism or other temple ordinances? Do you really believe in the atonement? life sucks eh?
Recommended Posts