God's Playground

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, Ouagadougou said:

What are the requirements to reach the Celestial Kingdom?  

- Must be temple worthy, right?  

If you drink tea, then some bishops might not give you a recommend. So, drinking tea, in some ways, might prevent me from being able to create my own planets.  

 

47 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

It's not the tea, it's the rebellion.

The rebellious cannot become God.  It has nothing to do with the liquid but with your obedience to law.
God is God because he obeys every law.  You seem to feel you don't need to obey that one.

JLHProf said it at least as well as, if not better than, I can.

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, Ouagadougou said:

If I can't get a temple recommend (because I drink tea), then I technically won't be worthy of the highest level of the celestial kingdom, right?  

Temple worthy = highest level of salvation in Mormonism, right?  *And the final judgement*

Technically, it is the disobedience, not the tea, that makes one unworthy. In the end, all of us will confess the Lord Jesus Christ, not out of fear but love. He will try us to see if we will obey every word that falls from his lips. The promised rewards are greater than we can imagine.

He will extend grace and forgiveness even to the most ardent Earl Grey fan. If we are faithful over a few things, he will make us rulers over many things. Wouldn't it be grand to be able to help set up a planetary system in exchange for forgoing a few fleeting earthly pleasures?

If I were not LDS, I would probably drink tea, not coffee (awful taste and coffee breath...) and smoke a pipe. I love the smell of pipe tobacco. Alcohol might be a problem because I have some genetic disposition for dependency. When my dad joined the church, giving up alcohol and cigarettes cold turkey was easy for him, but coffee was difficult. He substituted Pero and Postum and was quite happy. 

There are some really good herbals out there. If you want something more ummm earthy, sagebrush tea was a staple in my mother's pantry.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, Ouagadougou said:

So I can still make it by drinking tea?  

"Eternal life, or celestial glory or exaltation, is a conditional gift. Conditions of this gift have been established by the Lord, who said, “If you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.”13 Those qualifying conditions include faith in the Lord, repentance, baptism, receiving the Holy Ghost, and remaining faithful to the ordinances and covenants of the temple."

I guess if my bishop decides that I can get a temple recommend then I can become a God. 😀

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2008/04/salvation-and-exaltation?lang=eng

The bishop doesn't decide. You decide.

[Ouagadougou]

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

You can keep claiming that all you want.  All you are doing is showing a lack of understanding of principle by choosing instead to resort to straw men.
Kind of a silly argument to make.

I'm not worried at all about it and will risk being a God for tea. 😀

[Ouagadougou]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

The bishop doesn't decide. You decide.

Ok.  Not worried at all.  I've already decided long ago that I will drink tea, so according to some, I will miss out on being a God.  I try to live my life and not worry about rewards in heaven.  

[Teancum]

3 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

JLHProf said it at least as well as, if not better than, I can.

Well the real question is whether a God powerful enough to create this universe as well as this wondrous world we live in would give stupid and meaningless commandments like don't drink tea or coffee simply to see if we will obey this God.  It seems to me most likely not and that such rules are man made constraints to control those who participate in the religious organization issuing such non nonsensical rules. Especially when that said organization has been totally inconsistent about requiring adherence to such rules to get into the place to get the best and most important ordinances to return to said God and be in the best place with this God up till one President Heber J Grant added such rules to the test to get the card to get into that place for said ordinances.

So there you have it.

 

 

[Calm]

Maybe he starts out with the little stuff to help us build up our strength when it comes to big stuff that appears meaningless to us, but in reality does have huge impact.  Our trust that there is value in and of itself in obedience may be very helpful getting through dark times when we don't have access to the Spirit as easily for nonsin reasons or when there are other obstacles to obedience.

[VideoGameJunkie]

On 2/14/2017 at 6:13 PM, Bernard Gui said:

I am so thankful our religion offers us the hope of participating with God in the creation of new worlds and populating them with His children.

I cannot imagine anything that could be more beautiful, satisfying, and exciting as this. If this is where He plays, I want to be a part of it,

no matter how small that part may be. What do you think?

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap170208.html

You mention populating the world's we help create with God's children. I thought they would be our spirit children. Or are they both of our children?

[california boy]

Do you think that how the church treats gay couples and their families is to prepare members of the church for the time when they will become gods and will need to command their future children to wiping out complete ethnic groups that are also their children?  Or to make the decision to wipe out the entire population of the earth because no other living person were as good as Noah and his family?  Start with the small stuff like calling gays apostates and not allowing their children to be members of the group.  It is never too early to teach members how to pit one group of his children against the other group.

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

Do you think that how the church treats gay couples and their families is to prepare members of the church for the time when they will become gods and will need to command their future children to wiping out complete ethnic groups that are also their children?  Or to make the decision to wipe out the entire population of the earth because no other living person were as good as Noah and his family?  Start with the small stuff like calling gays apostates and not allowing their children to be members of the group.  It is never too early to teach members how to pit one group of his children against the other group.

Some of the first things I learned as a child in primary was that "we" were different and was supposed to be.  That we were special in the eyes of God per our spiritual beings before earth...this already made an "us versus them" mentality no matter how you look at it. 

[Bernard Gui]

8 hours ago, Teancum said:

Well the real question is whether a God powerful enough to create this universe as well as this wondrous world we live in would give stupid and meaningless commandments like don't drink tea or coffee simply to see if we will obey this God.  It seems to me most likely not and that such rules are man made constraints to control those who participate in the religious organization issuing such non nonsensical rules. Especially when that said organization has been totally inconsistent about requiring adherence to such rules to get into the place to get the best and most important ordinances to return to said God and be in the best place with this God up till one President Heber J Grant added such rules to the test to get the card to get into that place for said ordinances.

So there you have it.

 

 

Maybe we could find out what He thinks about it rather than impose our own criteria. After all, He notes the sparrow's fall.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

You mention populating the world's we help create with God's children. I thought they would be our spirit children. Or are they both of our children?

We are all His children. If we have eternal progeny, they will also be His children. 

[VideoGameJunkie]

So when we create worlds for spirit children, is it going to be our spirit children or God's spirit children who occupy the worlds?

[Bernard Gui]

12 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Some of the first things I learned as a child in primary was that "we" were different and was supposed to be.  That we were special in the eyes of God per our spiritual beings before earth...this already made an "us versus them" mentality no matter how you look at it. 

I was always taught and have taught my children that it is us versus him...Satan, the enemy of all righteousness, the usurper, the tempter, the liar from the beginning. Jesus overcame him both in the pre-mortal kingdom, here on earth, and in the eternities.

[JLHPROF]

30 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

So when we create worlds for spirit children, is it going to be our spirit children or God's spirit children who occupy the worlds?

ALL spirit children  have to become mortal and gain bodies on those worlds.

However, it does make one wonder that if OUR future spirit children go to another God's world instead of ours, who is their Heavenly Father?
Aren't we taught that we are ALL children of the same Heavenly Father?
Personally I believe we will assist Christ in the creation of his world first and then he will supervise us as we do the same, much as Jehovah supervised Michael.

[JLHPROF]

3 hours ago, Teancum said:

Well the real question is whether a God powerful enough to create this universe as well as this wondrous world we live in would give stupid and meaningless commandments like don't drink tea or coffee simply to see if we will obey this God.  It seems to me most likely not and that such rules are man made constraints to control those who participate in the religious organization issuing such non nonsensical rules. Especially when that said organization has been totally inconsistent about requiring adherence to such rules to get into the place to get the best and most important ordinances to return to said God and be in the best place with this God up till one President Heber J Grant added such rules to the test to get the card to get into that place for said ordinances.

So there you have it.

That principle was given for the least among the saints.
Apparently there are still many who are content to be "least" instead of receiving "most" of God's law.

[Jeanne]

2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I was always taught and have taught my children that it is us versus him...Satan, the enemy of all righteousness, the usurper, the tempter, the liar from the beginning. Jesus overcame him both in the pre-mortal kingdom, here on earth, and in the eternities.

Fine.  But that is not what I am talking about.  Yes..evil versis goodness..the Savior or following Satan..but which is it if one thinks they are better or entitled?  Can you deny that in my comments above that this is not true?

Edited February 20, 2017 by Jeanne

[Gray]

On 2/17/2017 at 11:38 PM, Bernard Gui said:

I wouldn't, but perhaps that is not how God recognizes agency.

Then perhaps God doesn't really behave like any kind of Father we would recognize. Perhaps God behaves more like nature itself.

[Gray]

On 2/18/2017 at 7:17 AM, RevTestament said:

 23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father’s house.

 24 And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father’s house, the offspring and the issue, all vessels of small quantity, from the vessels of cups, even to all the vessels of flagons.

 25 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall the nail that is fastened in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; and the burden that was upon it shall be cut off: for the Lord hath spoken it.

Do you believe Heavenly Father doesn't suffer as He watches His children stray from the gospel? There are other kinds of suffering than just the physical.

God's suffering just adds more suffering on top of pointless suffering.

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Fine.  But that is not what I am talking about.  Yes..evil versis goodness..the Savior or following Satan..but which is it if one thinks they are better or entitled?  Can you deny that in my comments above that this is not true?

I was taught that we all are sinners and fall short of the perfection of God, and that we will be judged in the same manner we judge others. 

[Bernard Gui]

45 minutes ago, Gray said:

Then perhaps God doesn't really behave like any kind of Father we would recognize. Perhaps God behaves more like nature itself.

Perhaps. Perhaps his vision and purposes are not the same as those of an earthly father. I've had better results praying to God than praying to nature.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

48 minutes ago, Gray said:

God's suffering just adds more suffering on top of pointless suffering.

 I have learned valuable lessons from my suffering. Sometimes it has taken years and a great deal of soul-searching to realize the blessings that came from adversity. There is no other way.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Kenngo1969]

8 hours ago, Teancum said:

Well the real question is whether a God powerful enough to create this universe as well as this wondrous world we live in would give stupid and meaningless commandments like don't drink tea or coffee simply to see if we will obey this God.  It seems to me most likely not and that such rules are man made constraints to control those who participate in the religious organization issuing such non nonsensical rules. Especially when that said organization has been totally inconsistent about requiring adherence to such rules to get into the place to get the best and most important ordinances to return to said God and be in the best place with this God up till one President Heber J Grant added such rules to the test to get the card to get into that place for said ordinances.

So there you have it.

 

 

I agree that one ought not ignore the "weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith" (Matthew 23:23).  However, I don't think that paying due attention to such weightier matters excuses us from obedience in other matters, as well.  I believe that "out of small things proceedeth that which is great" (Doctrine & Covenants 64:33) and that "he that is faithful over a few things" will be made ruler "over many things" (Matthew 25:23). The Pearl of Great Price teaches that Adam was blessed for his obedience even though he did not understand the reasons for what God asked of him (see Moses 5:6).  

I agree that through a purely naturalistic, humanistic lens, relatively few things that God asks of us make sense (see Isaiah 55:8-9).  And I don't believe that obedience is some sort of quid pro quo proposition which turns God into Santa Claus, who gives us "blessings" when we're "good" and "lumps of coal" when we're not.  I do the things I do because they fill my soul, because they make me happy, and because at least some of them (hopefully many of them) are of benefit to my fellow human beings, as well, not because I expect any sort of quid pro quo from God.

And as for the nonsensical rules issued by the purportedly man-made organization, if I have questions about the true source of any particular rule, I like Gamaliel's approach when he was counseling other members of the Sanhedrin about what to do about the Apostles: "If this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to naught; but if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it, lest [perhaps] ye be found to fight even against God" Acts 5:38-39.  Inconsistency doesn't bother me as much as it might some: God, even at His most [allegedly] inconsistent, still is more consistent than most any human I've ever known.  Whatever else He is or is not, God is also a sovereign, so it won't do me much good to stomp my widdo feet and shake my widdo fists at how Unfair He Is.  While your mileage may vary, I simply trust that eventually, I will understand His reasons for things which, now, to my mortal, finite mind, might seem arbitrary and capricious.  As C.S. Lewis put it in The Screwtape Letters, in which a Senior Devil instructs his junior padawan (going from memory), "Our cause is never more in danger than when our target looks around a vast universe from which every trace of God has been removed ... and still obeys."

And if I viewed getting a temple recommend and participating in temple ordinances simply as things to be checked off of a to-do list, I might decry whatever seeming arbitrariness exists there, too, but I don't.  If I didn't think the ordinances and the blessings of the temple (as well as the ways I am blessed for striving to do what's necessary to get there) were worth it, I might decry those requirements as arbitrary, but I don't.  

[Tacenda]

13 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

JLHProf said it at least as well as, if not better than, I can.

It's not what goes in the mouth that defilith, it's what comes out, according to scripture. 

I think the only thing the God of the Bible mentions as far as a drink, is not to be wine bibbers, or something like that. How do we know if it's truly a commandant, or at first just a suggestion in the D & C? Since Joseph and many leaders didn't follow it. Why wouldn't they, if it was a commandment?

I like this article: http://www.kencollins.com/discipleship/disc-43.htm

[Calm]

"I refuse to obey the commandments of my God.". 

Do you think that might defile someone?

Of course many just don't believe it is a commandment.  If (I am not saying it is always or mostly this) God had sent the Spirit and for whatever reason a person had chosen to ignore him, do you think telling God in essence "I am not listening" might be a problem?