Is this the reason Romney missed out on beng secretar of state?

[thesometimesaint]

54 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

Knowing Trump he would like to get the apology, and then not select Romney. Romney may have been smart to feel out Trump about various issues, but to think he should seriously consider accepting the office of SoS given his history, is almost unthinkable. I really think someone with more international experience would also make a better SoS. Clinton was disastrous, and this led to the email thing also blowing up in her face. IMHO, it has really been awhile since we had a truly good, competent SoS.

Clinton's accomplishments at the State Department combined shoring up venerable institutions with creative exploration of new tools and authorities -- returning U.S. influence to international bodies where it had declined, negotiating the U.N. sanctions that paved the way for the Iran nuclear deal, restoring visible U.S. leadership in Asia, achieving significant global milestones for women, girls and LGBT people, unprecedented partnerships with social media, business and community groups. Killing Osama Bin Laden and dumping his rotting corpse into the ocean.

Even the FBI agrees there is no there there with the E-Mails.

This is your only warning.  Stay on topic or be banned from the thread.

[Hestia]

Scott, find a way to connect this thread to mormonism and discuss that or this thread will be shut down too.

[sam]

Trump just wanted to embarrass Romney

[Scott Lloyd]

38 minutes ago, Hestia said:

Scott, find a way to connect this thread to mormonism and discuss that or this thread will be shut down too.

I see this thread as a continuation and conclusion of the prior two.

I started the other threads to highlight the fact that a faithful member of the Church was being considered for an important and influential post in the U.S. government and would thus be in a position to help shape world events. I saw this as being in fulfillment of what was foretold in Nephi's vision about the church of the Lamb of God being "over all the face of the earth" (in terms of global presence and influence) though its numbers would be relatively few by reason of Satan's pervasive influence.

But all that is moot now, as the appointment of Romney is not going to happen. So perhaps it is best that this thread be closed after all.

 

[RevTestament]

56 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I see this thread as a continuation and conclusion of the prior two.

I started the other threads to highlight the fact that a faithful member of the Church was being considered for an important and influential post in the U.S. government and would thus be in a position to help shape world events. I saw this as being in fulfillment of what was foretold in Nephi's vision about the church of the Lamb of God being "over all the face of the earth" (in terms of global presence and influence) though its numbers would be relatively few by reason of Satan's pervasive influence.

But all that is moot now, as the appointment of Romney is not going to happen. So perhaps it is best that this thread be closed after all.

For what is is worth on this issue(I think), I think the Lord will accomplish His work in unexpected ways, and not ways of the world. For instance I don't think the Lord plans to bring the Church to prominence through some member being elected as President of the US - I am not saying that won't happen, but it now looks perilously unlikely. Who knows what the US will look like when the New Jerusalem comes in. So although I think Romney is a fine man, and a decent politician, I sincerely doubt his being SoS would have affected the church too much. If the Lord had any such plans, I think JS may have gotten further in his bid to become President of the US. If this were the Lord's plan, the recent prominence of the Church from the days of GB Hinkley would have propelled the church into fantastic growth. However, neither of these things have happened. I hate to be a "party pooper" but the Lord's plans involve other means the church has not perceived. He will accomplish His ends through small means rather than worldly ones. 

[BlueDreams]

Before it's closed, it may be about an apology. But I think it's equally likely that it didn't fit period. Trump's cabinet is looking a lot like a reflection pool of how he sees himself. Romney isn't that. Tillerson is closer. Nuf said. Bringing it back to Mormonism: God help us all. 

 

With luv, 

BD

[Scott Lloyd]

10 hours ago, RevTestament said:

For what is is worth on this issue(I think), I think the Lord will accomplish His work in unexpected ways, and not ways of the world. For instance I don't think the Lord plans to bring the Church to prominence through some member being elected as President of the US - I am not saying that won't happen, but it now looks perilously unlikely. Who knows what the US will look like when the New Jerusalem comes in. So although I think Romney is a fine man, and a decent politician, I sincerely doubt his being SoS would have affected the church too much. If the Lord had any such plans, I think JS may have gotten further in his bid to become President of the US. If this were the Lord's plan, the recent prominence of the Church from the days of GB Hinkley would have propelled the church into fantastic growth. However, neither of these things have happened. I hate to be a "party pooper" but the Lord's plans involve other means the church has not perceived. He will accomplish His ends through small means rather than worldly ones. 

You may have misunderstood me. I wasn't anticipating the Church rocketing to prominence and numerical dominance by virtue of one man having a high position in government. I've said on multiple occasions in the past that I expect the "numbers" wiill be "few" up to the dawn of the Millennium.

What I had in mind is good and faithful members of the Church being a good and leavening influence on the world just by virtue of their living the standards of the gospel and exercising the good judgment that is available as a gift of the Spirit to those who earnestly seek it.

I believe this will continue to happen, be it now or in the future, perhaps constituting the "small means" you allude to. There is nothing worldly about the covenant people of God earnestly living the principles of their faith in whatever sphere of influence where they may find themselves. 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, BlueDreams said:

Before it's closed, it may be about an apology. But I think it's equally likely that it didn't fit period. Trump's cabinet is looking a lot like a reflection pool of how he sees himself. Romney isn't that. Tillerson is closer. Nuf said. Bringing it back to Mormonism: God help us all. 

 

With luv, 

BD

If we got through the sexual scandal of the Clinton years, I'm fairly confident we can muddle through four years of a Trump presidency.

 

[Teancum]

12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I've had two threads closed on the topic of MItt Romney being considered by the president-elect for the position of secretary of state.

Now that he Romney didn't get the post, I feel it appropriate to start one more thread reflecting on that fact, specifically, this suggestion as to the reason why.

According to this blog post (which I happened onto as a link from Dan Peterson's blog), the reason is that Romney refused to apologize for previous comments about Trump's candidacy.

It's regrettable. I think Romney would have made a good secretary of state. But I admire his adhering to principle.

I think the article is spot on. And I agree that Romney would not only have been a good Sec of State but an excellent one.  The choice Trump made IMO was horrible. 

[The Nehor]

Are you daring to suggest our future president might be a petty vindictive small-minded soul desperate for the praise of others? What in his conduct so far could possibly lead you to this conclusion?

[Johnnie Cake]

13 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I've had two threads closed on the topic of MItt Romney being considered by the president-elect for the position of secretary of state.

Now that he Romney didn't get the post, I feel it appropriate to start one more thread reflecting on that fact, specifically, this suggestion as to the reason why.

According to this blog post (which I happened onto as a link from Dan Peterson's blog), the reason is that Romney refused to apologize for previous comments about Trump's candidacy.

It's regrettable. I think Romney would have made a good secretary of state. But I admire his adhering to principle.

Only Tagging you to see if your boy is home from his mission to Sweden yet? or was it Norway?  Anyhow Thought I'd ask

[Scott Lloyd]

59 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Only Tagging you to see if your boy is home from his mission to Sweden yet? or was it Norway?  Anyhow Thought I'd ask

Sweden. And he has another nine months or so to go.

Thanks for asking.

[BlueDreams]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If we got through the sexual scandal of the Clinton years, I'm fairly confident we can muddle through four years of a Trump presidency.

 

That feels like apple and oranges in level of concern and threat. I really don't see the comparison. 

[Scott Lloyd]

4 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

That feels like apple and oranges in level of concern and threat. I really don't see the comparison. 

And I really don't see that alarming of a threat. Sorry. 

But I'm finished here now. I didn't intend for this to become a referendum on partisan politics, and now that it has, I think I'll bow out in advance of the inevitable thread closure. 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[longview]

I think it fascinating how there are very liberal Mormons and very conservative Mormons.  And a whole lot in between.  Romney is a terrific problem solver (witness his rescue of the SLC Olympics), was able to become governor of a deep blue state (Massachusetts), and ran for president as a "moderate."  Based on my canvass of a number of discussion boards, he really has no in-depth understanding of conservative values (he was described as having a "tin ear" when attempting to relate to the right wing).  He is aligned with the establishment elites and "globalists" (like Jeb Bush, et al).  Harry Reid is another disconcerting figure in American politics (some wonder if he is a faithful member).  Trump is VERY different from those two.

[mfbukowski]

19 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I've had two threads closed on the topic of MItt Romney being considered by the president-elect for the position of secretary of state.

Now that he Romney didn't get the post, I feel it appropriate to start one more thread reflecting on that fact, specifically, this suggestion as to the reason why.

According to this blog post (which I happened onto as a link from Dan Peterson's blog), the reason is that Romney refused to apologize for previous comments about Trump's candidacy.

It's regrettable. I think Romney would have made a good secretary of state. But I admire his adhering to principle.

Romney is just such a......  Mormon.   He needs to loosen up a bit.  He's just a little too into displaying his righteousness.

Being righteous is great- displaying it, not so much.  Take off the tie once in a while and kick back and get real.

Just meeting with Trump he had already compromised any "principles" he may still have had- and then he hangs up on the last step?  Come on!!   I mean if you are going to act all "principled" then stick to your guns or let bygones be bygones, but this half way stuff is just.....  odd.

It feels two-faced- not unlike the private comments he made to his inner circle talking about the 47% of voters who would not vote for him anyway because they were on some kind of welfare.  That comment that cost him dearly.   This is similar- he compromises half way but then his privileged self image kicks in and he sounds like a self-righteous jerk 

Edited December 16, 2016 by mfbukowski

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

Romney is just such a......  Mormon.   He needs to loosen up a bit.  He's just a little too into displaying his righteousness.

Being righteous is great- displaying it, not so much.  Take off the tie once in a while and kick back and get real.

Just meeting with Trump he had already compromised any "principles" he may still have had- and then he hangs up on the last step?  Come on!!   I mean if you are going to act all "principled" then stick to your guns or let bygones be bygones, but this half way stuff is just.....  odd.

It feels two-faced- not unlike the private comments he made to his inner circle talking about the 47% of voters who would not vote for him anyway because they were on some kind of welfare.  That comment that cost him dearly.   This is similar- he compromises half way but then his privileged self image kicks in and he sounds like a self-righteous jerk 

Seems to me if Romney were as you say he is -- self-righteous and intolerant -- he never would have given Trump the time of day in the first place. Or if he were two-faced, he would have insincerely feigned an apology just to get the cabinet post. What happened instead? He saw enough good in Trump -- perhaps in light of Trump's gracious victory speech after the election -- that he felt the two just might be able to work together for the good of the country. But requiring an apology for comments Romney made earlier that reflected his earnest and sincere feelings was the proverbial bridge too far. That would have been selling out. Again, I say, good for him for not doing that.

Despite all his failings, alleged and real, I had Trump pegged for a pragmatist, and I thought that quality was coming through with his overtures toward Romney despite all that had been said and done up to now. That's what I find so disappointing about this latest revelation or rumor about the requirement that their be an apology. I had been quite ready to accept the idea that Trump had simply found somebody for the cabinet post that he thought would be a better fit than Romney for his administration, which is understandable enough. The apology requirement puts an unpleasant odor on the proceedings.

By the way, it seems to me if you truly are righteous, it's going to show whether you want it to or not, and inevitably, some aren't going to like it much.The Savior had plenty of enemies during His mortal life.

But I said I was finished with this thread. Frankly, I'm surprised it remains open.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Yirgacheffe]

13 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It is also apparent that Romney now feels Trump, despite his shortcomings, has the potential to render good service as president of the United States.

Or maybe he believes we are stuck with Trump and that he could mitigate the damage done by him.

[mfbukowski]

16 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Seems to me if Romney were as you say he is -- self-righteous and intolerant -- he never would have given Trump the time of day in the first place. Or if he were two-faced, he would have insincerely feigned an apology just to get the cabinet post. What happened instead? He saw enough good in Trump -- perhaps in light of Trump's gracious victory speech after the election -- that he felt the two just might be able to work together for the good of the country. But requiring an apology for comments Romney made earlier that reflected his earnest and sincere feelings was the proverbial bridge too far. That would have been selling out. Again, I say, good for him for not doing that.

Despite all his failings, alleged and real, I had Trump pegged for a pragmatist, and I thought that quality was coming through with his overtures toward Romney despite all that had been said and done up to now. That's what I find so disappointing about this latest revelation or rumor about the requirement that their be an apology. I had been quite ready to accept the idea that Trump had simply found somebody for the cabinet post that he thought would be a better fit for his administration.

By the way, it seems to me if you truly are righteous, it's going to show whether you want it to or not, and inevitably, some aren't going to like it much.The Savior had plenty of enemies during His mortal life.

But I said I was finished with this thread. Frankly, I'm surprised it remains open.

 

 

5,       4,       3, ..........

I am actually not very political, I should keep my mouth shut on these threads.....  

Edited December 16, 2016 by mfbukowski

[Scott Lloyd]

9 minutes ago, Yirgacheffe said:

Or maybe he believes we are stuck with Trump and that he could mitigate the damage done by him.

Heh. Quite possibily.

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

5,       4,       3, ..........

I am actually not very political, I should keep my mouth shut on these threads.....  

You and I both.

[The Nehor]

6 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

5,       4,       3, ..........

I am actually not very political, I should keep my mouth shut on these threads.....  

Where is the fun in that?

2, ............

[emeliza]

Surprised to see this thread still open.

I agree with BD.  Trump wouldn't have picked Romney.  Trump isn't a fan of the church, Romney never backed him and in fact with Trumps ego, he humiliated him. 

I am glad Romney went and attempted for the position as it would have been nice to have someone who understands respect and is sane in the cabinet. 

 

[Meadowchik]

6 hours ago, Yirgacheffe said:

Or maybe he believes we are stuck with Trump and that he could mitigate the damage done by him.

I think Romney may have had a Captain Mormon moment: choosing whether to leave or try to lead a bad situation to something better.

[Meadowchik]

12 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

That feels like apple and oranges in level of concern and threat. I really don't see the comparison. 

Yup, and it's not about partisanship at all. Basic fitness, decency, statesmanship, and intelligence are alarmingly lacking in Trump. 

It's depressing to see people pretend these things away.