Duncan Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 (edited) I am doing research on Stake Presidencies in the later half of the 19th century and I was reading about one Stake Presidency member who was never ordained to the Aaronic Priesthood, one of the examples that the writer used was that neither was Brigham Young. Does anyone know if Brigham Young was ordained to the AP or even the MP prior to becoming an Apostle in Feb 1835? and yes I know the MP encompasses the AP yes, I know this is an obscure a research topic but i'm single leave me alone but if you know the answer to my question that be great! Edited November 16, 2016 by Duncan
rongo Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 I'm not sure about your question, but I remember having an outgoing missionary who hadn't been ordained to the office of priest (he was a move-in from Brazil, heading to Portugal, and was active but still a teacher). The stake president wanted him to be ordained a priest before being ordained an elder, so I had a convert perform the priest ordination right before I conferred the MP and ordained him to the office of elder. It's a preference/unwritten order thing, and in my view, not necessary, but it didn't hurt to do it that way. It was a good experience for the convert . . . 1
Doctrine 612 Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 I remember Brigham young was baptized and then ordained an elder. ill do more research to give references 1
Doctrine 612 Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 Brigham young teaching of the prophets manual. 1832: Baptized into the Church and ordained an elder. Wife dies (31). 3
Bernard Gui Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 13 hours ago, Doctrine 612 said: Brigham young teaching of the prophets manual. 1832: Baptized into the Church and ordained an elder. Wife dies (31). Was it common practice to document AP ordinations in the 1830s?
Nevo Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 (edited) 20 hours ago, Duncan said: I am doing research on Stake Presidencies in the later half of the 19th century and I was reading about one Stake Presidency member who was never ordained to the Aaronic Priesthood, one of the examples that the writer used was that neither was Brigham Young. Does anyone know if Brigham Young was ordained to the AP or even the MP prior to becoming an Apostle in Feb 1835? Brigham Young's elder's license says that he was baptized and ordained an elder by Eleazer Miller on 9 April 1832. Young's diary entry for the same date corroborates this: "I was baptized under the hand of Eliezer Miller and ordained." Photos of both documents are in H. Michael Marquardt, "Setting the Record Straight: Brigham Young's Baptism Date," Journal of Mormon History 38, no. 4 (2012): 196–197. Edited November 16, 2016 by Nevo 2
ksfisher Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 18 hours ago, Doctrine 612 said: I remember Brigham young was baptized and then ordained an elder. If you read this just the wrong way it makes you look very old. 1
Doctrine 612 Posted November 17, 2016 Posted November 17, 2016 6 hours ago, ksfisher said: If you read this just the wrong way it makes you look very old. 😉
mfbukowski Posted November 17, 2016 Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) On 11/15/2016 at 8:13 PM, Doctrine 612 said: I remember Brigham young was baptized and then ordained an elder. ill do more research to give references What was the name of the elder he ordained. right after his baptism? But heck, if you remember that then you remember it! Did he just walk out of the water and ordain him, or was he still in the water when he did the ordination? I understand usually one is ordained before ordaining someone else, but if that is your memory... just kidding. Edited November 17, 2016 by mfbukowski 1
mfbukowski Posted November 17, 2016 Posted November 17, 2016 On 11/15/2016 at 8:17 PM, Doctrine 612 said: Brigham young teaching of the prophets manual. 1832: Baptized into the Church and ordained an elder. Wife dies (31). The elder he ordained's 31st wife died? What a shame!? Ok enough silliness, sorry. 1
cdowis Posted November 19, 2016 Posted November 19, 2016 Am I stating the obvious == it is my understanding that it is not a requirement to hold the AP in order to receive the MP. n receiving the MP, you receive all the keys and authority of the AP. 1
CMZ Posted November 24, 2016 Posted November 24, 2016 On 11/15/2016 at 7:32 PM, rongo said: I'm not sure about your question, but I remember having an outgoing missionary who hadn't been ordained to the office of priest (he was a move-in from Brazil, heading to Portugal, and was active but still a teacher). The stake president wanted him to be ordained a priest before being ordained an elder, so I had a convert perform the priest ordination right before I conferred the MP and ordained him to the office of elder. It's a preference/unwritten order thing, and in my view, not necessary, but it didn't hurt to do it that way. It was a good experience for the convert . . . Correct. It was not doctrinally necessary at all for him to be ordained a priest first. As a teenager I did have a friend who said he was ordained a deacon, skipped being a teacher, and was ordained a priest.
CMZ Posted November 24, 2016 Posted November 24, 2016 On 11/19/2016 at 11:33 AM, cdowis said: Am I stating the obvious == it is my understanding that it is not a requirement to hold the AP in order to receive the MP. n receiving the MP, you receive all the keys and authority of the AP. Also correct. Although keys aren't given with conferral of the Melchizedek Priesthood.
Benjamin Seeker Posted November 24, 2016 Posted November 24, 2016 Priesthood ordinations worked differently back in the early church. You were called to certain offices, so men were specifically called to fill different quorums. Sometimes people even refused calls to lower offices in the priesthood in hopes of a call to a higher office. Men simply didn't progress through the offices like they do now. 1
cdowis Posted November 24, 2016 Posted November 24, 2016 6 hours ago, CMZ said: Also correct. Although keys aren't given with conferral of the Melchizedek Priesthood. When you are ordained to the MP, you also receive the keys and authority of the Aaronic Priesthood, if you had not already received hem. For example, https://www.lds.org/media-library/video/2012-05-8250-keys-of-the-ministering-of-angels?lang=eng
CMZ Posted November 28, 2016 Posted November 28, 2016 On 11/24/2016 at 6:59 AM, cdowis said: When you are ordained to the MP, you also receive the keys and authority of the Aaronic Priesthood, if you had not already received hem. For example, https://www.lds.org/media-library/video/2012-05-8250-keys-of-the-ministering-of-angels?lang=eng You don't receive keys when the Melchizedek Priesthood is conferred on you, but it is true that if you go straight to receiving the Melchizedek Priesthood that you won't need to also separately have the Aaronic Priesthood conferred upon you.
theplains Posted December 2, 2016 Posted December 2, 2016 On 15/11/2016 at 9:46 PM, Duncan said: I am doing research on Stake Presidencies in the later half of the 19th century and I was reading about one Stake Presidency member who was never ordained to the Aaronic Priesthood, one of the examples that the writer used was that neither was Brigham Young. Does anyone know if Brigham Young was ordained to the AP or even the MP prior to becoming an Apostle in Feb 1835? and yes I know the MP encompasses the AP More concerning is that a young man who has been baptized and confirmed a member of the LDS Church and is worthy may be ordained to the office of deacon when he is 12 years old. He has more spiritual authority than his mother. Jim
Jeanne Posted December 2, 2016 Posted December 2, 2016 8 minutes ago, theplains said: More concerning is that a young man who has been baptized and confirmed a member of the LDS Church and is worthy may be ordained to the office of deacon when he is 12 years old. He has more spiritual authority than his mother. Jim This is true. When my son lost his father at the age of 16, he found out he was head of the house! Not so..not so!!
Duncan Posted December 3, 2016 Author Posted December 3, 2016 Just now, Jeanne said: This is true. When my son lost his father at the age of 16, he found out he was head of the house! Not so..not so!! what do you mean he is the head of the house hold? why wouldn't his mother be? a 16 yr old can't give blessings anyways
Jeanne Posted December 3, 2016 Posted December 3, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Duncan said: what do you mean he is the head of the house hold? why wouldn't his mother be? a 16 yr old can't give blessings anyways I agree. But his grandfather and the bishop told him that because he was the only priesthood holder in the family (still a Teacher at the time) that me and his sister was his responsibility. I had to straighten that out fast. I told my son that we would all be responsible for eachother ...as a family. Edited to add: Do you think that women still have any kind of priesthood at all? Edited December 3, 2016 by Jeanne 1
Duncan Posted December 3, 2016 Author Posted December 3, 2016 Just now, Jeanne said: I agree. But his grandfather and the bishop told him that because he was the only priesthood holder in the family (still a Teacher at the time) that me and his sister was his responsibility. I had to straighten that out fast. I told my son that we would all be responsible for eachother ...as a family. Edited to add: Do you think that women still have any kind of priesthood at all? hmm, must be a local thing! I think women have priesthood as much as men do in the sense that we all have access to it. I can't give myself a blessing so I have to ask someone else to do it, I don't have the keys to do my own sacrament so I have to go another for that, even the Bishop can't give himself permission to hold his own sacrament service 1
Calm Posted December 3, 2016 Posted December 3, 2016 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Jeanne said: I agree. But his grandfather and the bishop told him that because he was the only priesthood holder in the family (still a Teacher at the time) that me and his sister was his responsibility. I had to straighten that out fast. I told my son that we would all be responsible for eachother ...as a family. Edited to add: Do you think that women still have any kind of priesthood at all? And the son being the man of the house when the dad dies orgoes off to war is a typical trope of tv and novels. It is not an LDS cultural idiosyncrasy, though the priesthood adds its own twist to it. There is a female version where the oldest girl becomes the mother due to her mother being ill, dying, or abandoning the family....so the attitude is hardly caused by the priesthood. see for example: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PromotionToParent Edited December 3, 2016 by Calm 1
Jeanne Posted December 3, 2016 Posted December 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, Calm said: And the son being the man of the house when the daddies orgoes off to war is a typical trope of tv and novels. It is not an LDS cultural idiosyncrasy, though the priesthood adds its own twist to it. There is a female version where the oldest girl becomes the mother due to her mother being ill, dying, or abandoning the family....so the attitude is hardly caused by the priesthood. No Calm...this is definitely not what was said or meant. He was head of the household as a priesthood holder and we were his responsibility in and outside of the church It was direct and a long conversation.
Calm Posted December 3, 2016 Posted December 3, 2016 (edited) Again, man of the house justified using an LDS unique rationalization, but common to other cultures even so. https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/son-man-house-help-kids-stay-kids/ It probably grew out of past necessity where it was not unusual for older children to have to assume parental responsibilities. We are blessed in this day and age in our country where this is not usually necessary, especially given that women can assume financial and other responsibilities they couldn't in the past. The birthright of the oldest son in the Bible was for the purpose of caring for his father's wives and any unmarried siblings, for example. The son would have authority over his mother at that point. Even in today's world it happens unfortunately: http://www.pri.org/stories/2013-06-17/man-house-tale-growing-fast Edited December 3, 2016 by Calm
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