Scott Lloyd Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Jeanne said: Uh...sounds delicious!! This is from one who drinks dill pickle juice. Mother McCreedy, that sounds awful! Of course, I must acknowledge that I've never tried it. Our missionary son in Sweden wrote that he was served tomato soup with scrambled eggs in it. I haven't mustered the courage yet to try that, but I think I would either gag on it or end up relishing it. 1
stemelbow Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 30 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Given a choice between the anointed servants of God and those who anoint themselves to find fault with the anointed servants of God, I'm inclined to go with the God-anointed ones rather than the self-anointed ones. Well, I don't accept at all your conclusion that the policy change is not of God, nor do I see any reason why I should. Doesn't mean there won't be in the future. Nor does it mean you would be apt to have heard about it if there had been a case where it was applied. That's a false assumption. They may not reject it of their own accord. They have to consult higher authority and obtain permission first. I don't think you can make that assumption; see above. If they have felt slapped, perhaps it is because they themselves have resisted the fact that homosexual behavior is regarded as sinful by the Church of Jesus Christ, and they cannot reasonably expect there will ever be any accommodation in the Church for a lifestyle that includes or abides it. Already addressed this above. Furthermore, having the policy in place has the effect of deterring the emergence of such cases in the first place. I see I erred, Scott. You are correct the explanation that came after the policy change is that local leaders "may request further guidance in particular instances when they have questions." My memory failed me on that front. Anyway, I'd be more intrigued by your view as it pertains to many proclaimed prophecies and revelation from past leaders as it pertains to race, for instance, or other doctrines we no longer hold to if I wasn't already familiar with your view. The problem, of course, is we've been over them before and I have a good feel for your view on these. I just can't accept your view as it seems obvious that revelation was claimed and then the teaching was rejected in these cases. I guess no need to rehash it. have a good one.
Bernard Gui Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 5 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Uh...sounds delicious!! This is from one who drinks dill pickle juice. You must get past the smell of kimchee and get to the taste. If you drink pickle juice...... Kimchee is fermented cabbage with other ingredients such as green onions, garlic, shredded carrot, ginger, chili, oriental radishes, etc.
Bernard Gui Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Mother McCreedy, that sounds awful! Of course, I must acknowledge that I've never tried it. Our missionary son in Sweden wrote that he was served tomato soup with scrambled eggs in it. I haven't mustered the courage yet to try that, but I think I would either gag on it or end up relishing it. A man who quotes Mother McCreedy may not become a kimchee fan. Our oldest son Artistici served in Sweden. Mashed potatoes and hot dogs? Lutefisk? Swedish licorice (he loves it, I can't abide it.)?
Gray Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Can you give me any compelling reason why I should accept your word contradicting so diametrically those whom I sustain as prophets, seers and revelators? I don't think you should accept anyone's word at all. My conclusions are very clear to me based on the principles attributed to Jesus in the gospels and based on my own relationship with God. You don't have access to my relationship with God, or to President Nelson's relationship with God. You only have access to your own relationship with God. 1
Bernard Gui Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) 32 minutes ago, DBMormon said: my motivation is to make space for those who are heterodox to have a place in the church while being authentic and hopefully press the orthodox to be more vulnerable. When I show that the deeper one dives into biblical criticism, fewer folks can maintain a literal view. when that portion of folks who see literalism as not a certainty any longer, come face to face with that, they are more empathetic with those already there. Clearly, the two sides could not coexist peacefully in a Gospel Doctrine class. Empathy is one thing, but division over doctrine is not of Christ. Do you believe a literal view of the resurrection is one the orthodox should be pressed to give up? As Jesus said, "....there shall be no disputations among you, as there have hitherto been; neither shall there be disputations among you concerning the points of my doctrine, as there have hitherto been." Edited October 19, 2016 by Bernard Gui 1
Scott Lloyd Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: A man who quotes Mother McCreedy may not become a kimchee fan. Our oldest son Artistici served in Sweden. Mashed potatoes and hot dogs? Lutefisk? Swedish licorice (he loves it, I can't abide it.)? Korv och potatis mos (Swedish "hotdogs" with mashed potatoes) was my favorite fast food in Sweden. I will still make it for myself occasionally. (Of course, our American frankfurters are just not the same as the Swedish korv. How I miss it! Lutfisk (Swedish spelling) I would eat on Christmas Eve for the sake of the holiday tradition. It is cod fish that has been dried with lye to preserve it and is then cooked in a cream sauce to reconstitute it for serving. Swedish licorice is salty enough to strangle a person. I tried it once. Never again! Edited October 19, 2016 by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Clearly, the two sides could not coexist peacefully in a Gospel Doctrine class. Empathy is one thing, but division over doctrine is not of Christ. Do you believe a literal view of the resurrection is one the orthodox should be pressed to give up? As Jesus said, "....there shall be no disputations among you, as there have hitherto been; neither shall there be disputations among you concerning the points of my doctrine, as there have hitherto been." If I were a gospel doctrine teacher, I would not abide any advocacy, discussion or even suggestion that the resurrection of Christ is figurative only. Same goes for the notion that the Book of Mormon is fictional. As a class member, I would not waste my time attending any Sunday classes where such discussion was entertained. Edited October 19, 2016 by Scott Lloyd 2
CV75 Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 1 hour ago, DBMormon said: why is my interpretation mistaken in my OP? why must I be wrong and you be right? my motivation is to make space for those who are heterodox to have a place in the church while being authentic and hopefully press the orthodox to be more vulnerable. When I show that the deeper one dives into biblical criticism, fewer folks can maintain a literal view. when that portion of folks who see literalism as not a certainty any longer, come face to face with that, they are more empathetic with those already there. I said your interpretation of my post (not your OP!) about the reasonableness of grace, as it pertains to the Lord condescending to use mortal reason to help us comprehend spiritual things, was mistaken. You agreed with something I did not assert in my post! My question on your motivation was not about your motivation for starting this thread, but for your use of reason in a way that led to your mistaken interpretation of my post. It is only asking you the same question you ask in the OP as it applies to an understanding of the reasonableness of God's grace as to its role with mortal reason! I don’t think you want to say that your motivation to make room for everyone by challenging literalism drives your confusion. Maybe you do. Maybe you just want to reiterate your original purpose for this thread rather than get bogged down with introspection. But whatever your motivation, it contributed to your confusion about my post. I see purpose and motivation as two different things. As I said in my first post, I think charity is the best motivation, which in this application would entail equal empathy for both those who take things literally and those who do not, and which tends to unify since the space is already there, and any exercise and conversation would promote that. 1
sunstoned Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 33 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Korv och potatis mos (Swedish "hotdogs" with mashed potatoes) was my favorite fast food in Sweden. I will still make it for myself occasionally. (Of course, our American frankfurters are just not the same as the Swedish korv. How I miss it! Lutfisk (Swedish spelling) I would eat on Christmas Eve for the sake of the holiday tradition. It is cod fish that has been dried with lye to preserve it and is then cooked in a cream sauce to reconstitute it for serving. Swedish licorice is salty enough to strangle a person. I tried it once. Never again! I do love Swedish licorice. American candy is way to sweet for my taste.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, sunstoned said: I do love Swedish licorice. American candy is way to sweet for my taste. Swedish chocolate is delicious. But you can't get it at IKEA, these days. Word is they recalled it because of something to do with information about allergens on the label. I keep longing for them to start selling it again.
ksfisher Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Lutfisk (Swedish spelling) I would eat on Christmas Eve for the sake of the holiday tradition. It is cod fish that has been dried with lye to preserve it and is then cooked in a cream sauce to reconstitute it for serving. It can also be used if you don't have any ipecac syrup handy. Edited October 19, 2016 by ksfisher 3
Bernard Gui Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: Korv och potatis mos (Swedish "hotdogs" with mashed potatoes) was my favorite fast food in Sweden. I will still make it for myself occasionally. (Of course, our American frankfurters are just not the same as the Swedish korv. How I miss it! Our local Pacific Lutheran University nickname is the Lutes. I can't help of thinking of lutefisk. When we visited Artistici's mission with him a few years after his return, he couldn't wait to order korv ooh potatis mos (I think he just called it mos) in Swedish to impress us. We got off the ferry from Gdansk, Poland, and went straight to a street vendor to get some. He ordered, and the vendor said in perfect English, "Please order in English." He was truly deflated. But the food was really good. Edited October 19, 2016 by Bernard Gui 2
Bernard Gui Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: If I were a gospel doctrine teacher, I would not abide any advocacy, discussion or even suggestion that the resurrection of Christ is figurative only. Same goes for the notion that the Book of Mormon is fictional. As a class member, I would not waste my time attending any Sunday classes where such discussion was entertained. It seems to me that some issues are not negotiable unless we are willing to throw out the whole Restoration. I'm trying to imagine what the discussion would be like between advocates of a mythical resurrection and orthodox believers. I can't imagine any way it could not end up being bitterly divisive. Same is true of the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. Edited October 19, 2016 by Bernard Gui 1
Bernard Gui Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 4 hours ago, Buckeye said: Not just Methodist preachers. Warren Jeffs (FLDS) and Fred Phelps (Westboro Baptists) would also qualify as prophets. Perhaps, if that were the only way to determine the prophetic calling.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Our local Pacific Lutheran University nickname is the Lutes. I can't help of thinking of lutefisk. When we visited Artistici's mission with him a few years after his return, he couldn't wait to order korv ooh potatis mos (I think he just called it mos) in Swedish to impress us. We got off the ferry from Gdansk, Poland, and went straight to a street vendor to get some. He ordered, and the vendor said in perfect English, "Please order in English." He was truly deflated. But the food was really good. "Lutes" could have a double significance, since the Swedish state church is Lutheran and lutfisk/lutefisk is a Swedish (or Scandinavian) dish. My favorite way of having korv och mos is i en tunnbrödsrulle (served in rolled-up flatbread). And possibly with a görka (pickle) on the side. Edited October 19, 2016 by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 13 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: It seems to me that some issues are not negotiable unless we are willing to throw out the whole Restoration. I'm trying to imagine what the discussion would be like between advocates of a mythical resurrection and orthodox believers. I can't imagine any way it could not end up being bitterly divisive. Same is true of the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. It strikes me as beyond bizarre that a professing Mormon would reject the doctrine of the Resurrection. May as well reject the divinity of Christ. This reminds me of the occasion in Church history when Amasa Lyman was dropped from the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and excommunicated for heresy after he wigged out and refused to stop denying in his public preaching the reality of and necessity for the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 1
Bernard Gui Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 50 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: "Lutes" could have a double significance, since the Swedish state church is Lutheran and lutfisk/lutefisk is a Swedish (or Scandinavian) dish. My favorite way of having korv och mos is i en tunnbrödsrulle (served in rolled-up flatbread). And possibly with a görka (pickle) on the side. Or the plucked instrument popular in the Renaissance. They often get plucked.
Robert F. Smith Posted October 20, 2016 Posted October 20, 2016 13 hours ago, Gray said: What does "namby pamby" mean to you in the context of religion? ..................................................................................... The Urban Dictionary defines it as "an adjective meaning weak or spineless, lacking vigour or decisiveness, and overly sentimental." And here is part of a poetic use of it: "Namby Pamby" by Henry Carey All ye Poets of the Age! All ye Witlings of the Stage! Learn your Jingles to reform! Crop your Numbers and Conform: Let your little Verses flow Gently, Sweetly, Row by Row: Let the Verse the Subject fit; Little Subject, Little Wit. Namby-Pamby is your Guide; Albion's Joy, Hibernia's Pride. . . . . 1
mfbukowski Posted October 20, 2016 Posted October 20, 2016 7 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: "Lutes" could have a double significance, since the Swedish state church is Lutheran and lutfisk/lutefisk is a Swedish (or Scandinavian) dish. My favorite way of having korv och mos is i en tunnbrödsrulle (served in rolled-up flatbread). And possibly with a görka (pickle) on the side. In a previous life before I was a member I dated a Norwegian girl who attended a Lutheran College. They had a cheer for their football games that went like this: Lutefisk lutefisk, lefse lefse We're the mighty "Luderans" Yah, sure- Ya betcha! But of course we know all about Norwegians and Swedes. 1
Gray Posted October 20, 2016 Posted October 20, 2016 9 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: The Urban Dictionary defines it as "an adjective meaning weak or spineless, lacking vigour or decisiveness, and overly sentimental." And here is part of a poetic use of it: "Namby Pamby" by Henry Carey All ye Poets of the Age! All ye Witlings of the Stage! Learn your Jingles to reform! Crop your Numbers and Conform: Let your little Verses flow Gently, Sweetly, Row by Row: Let the Verse the Subject fit; Little Subject, Little Wit. Namby-Pamby is your Guide; Albion's Joy, Hibernia's Pride. . . . . So cryptic!
Scott Lloyd Posted October 20, 2016 Posted October 20, 2016 13 hours ago, mfbukowski said: In a previous life before I was a member I dated a Norwegian girl who attended a Lutheran College. They had a cheer for their football games that went like this: Lutefisk lutefisk, lefse lefse We're the mighty "Luderans" Yah, sure- Ya betcha! But of course we know all about Norwegians and Swedes. I've heard Dane defined as "a Swede with a throat disease." Not sure whether that applies to Norwegians as well. 1
rongo Posted October 20, 2016 Posted October 20, 2016 21 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I've heard Dane defined as "a Swede with a throat disease." Not sure whether that applies to Norwegians as well. When my wife and I flew back from the German FAIR Conference in 2009, at Newark while waiting a couple were talking. I could tell they were Scandinavian of some kind. I asked them, "Norwegian, or Swedish?" The man said Norwegian, and I smiled and said, "Norwegian/Swedish --- same thing . . ." while moving my hands like a balance (I could tell from their demeanor that they had a sense of humor). He smiled and said, "Sweden is Norway's little brother."
Scott Lloyd Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) On 10/19/2016 at 3:42 PM, Bernard Gui said: It seems to me that some issues are not negotiable unless we are willing to throw out the whole Restoration. I'm trying to imagine what the discussion would be like between advocates of a mythical resurrection and orthodox believers. I can't imagine any way it could not end up being bitterly divisive. Same is true of the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. Both are absolutes where the doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ is concerned, and giving up ground on either of them is not a virtue -- nor is staking out an advocacy position against them. Edited October 21, 2016 by Scott Lloyd 1
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