Tribal Lineage - Rights, Blessings, Duties, etc.

[halconero]

We had an interesting panel here in Calgary the other night for a fireside where four of the nearby functioning patriarchs were brought in to do some Q&A. They answered previously submitted questions first and then opened it up towards the end to the attendees. Unfortunately the question I wanted to ask wasn't, and I didn't get the opportunity to raise it. It basically revolves around the promises given to the Tribes of Israel. I'm generally aware of those given to Joseph (and the sub divisions of Ephraim and Manasseh), Judah, and Levi, but haven't been able to find anything on the others.

Does anyone else here have any experience or sources on the promises and obligations associated with other tribes? In my experience a lot of the East Indian converts in Toronto were from Naphtali, Isaachar, and Zebulon, rather than the more typical Ephraim or Manasseh.

[Buckeye]

Sorry, I don't have anything for you. And I doubt there is anything authoritative. In my discussions with youth preparing for patriarchal blessings, we do discuss lineage, but say that most all of the division of responsibilities will come at some future date. The church's current operations, policies, and doctrines, treat all members identically regardless of assigned lineage. 

That said, I do sometimes share my personal account of how lineage (whether literal or not) has blessed me. I am a typical white guy, so no surprise I'm from Ephraim. I served a mission with hispanics, most of whom are from Manasseh. Those facts, coupled with Ephraim and Manasseh being brothers, somehow helped me to feel an initial strong bond for those I was called to serve.

[rongo]

We've gone through what is written in Genesis 49 and Deuteronomy 33 for Family Home Evening many times, so my kids are well-versed on what the different traits/blessings for the tribes are.   While any lineage of Israel is special, Simeon is all negative (at least as far as both of the chapters go). Another interesting item is the fact that Dan is excluded from the list of the 144,000 in Revelation. I used to ask Jehovah's Witnesses why, and they had no idea, and it really bothered them, because the 144,000 is such an important item (I don't know either, I was just asking to see what they thought).

My great-great-great grandfather Thomas E. Jones was one of the United Brethren and emigrated to Nauvoo. His blessing from Hyrum Smith denotes the tribe of Zebulun, but all of his descendants (as far as we can tell) are Ephraim --- showing that it is not direct, lineal descent, but rather, spiritual blessings. At a superficial level, Zebulun's traits center around the sea.

[Buckeye]

12 minutes ago, rongo said:

We've gone through what is written in Genesis 49 and Deuteronomy 33 for Family Home Evening many times, so my kids are well-versed on what the different traits/blessings for the tribes are.   While any lineage of Israel is special, Simeon is all negative (at least as far as both of the chapters go). Another interesting item is the fact that Dan is excluded from the list of the 144,000 in Revelation. I used to ask Jehovah's Witnesses why, and they had no idea, and it really bothered them, because the 144,000 is such an important item (I don't know either, I was just asking to see what they thought).

My great-great-great grandfather Thomas E. Jones was one of the United Brethren and emigrated to Nauvoo. His blessing from Hyrum Smith denotes the tribe of Zebulun, but all of his descendants (as far as we can tell) are Ephraim --- showing that it is not direct, lineal descent, but rather, spiritual blessings. At a superficial level, Zebulun's traits center around the sea.

I know someone who's assigned lineage is Dan. The exclusion of Dan in Revelation has puzzled him at times. I guess you can say that, for him, his lineage has posed more questions and doubts than hope.

[rongo]

I think it would be neat to be from Dan (some good scriptural traits and blessings, too). It wouldn't be a concern to me, although it bothered the JWs. I mainly just wanted to know what they thought about it, since the 144,000 are so important to them. 

[Gray]

I hail from the tribe of Ned. Our obligation is to cook the Krusteaz pancakes and break down the tents. My blessing is I get to keep any spare change or energy bars I find in the tents. 

[Buckeye]

40 minutes ago, rongo said:

I think it would be neat to be from Dan (some good scriptural traits and blessings, too). It wouldn't be a concern to me, although it bothered the JWs. I mainly just wanted to know what they thought about it, since the 144,000 are so important to them. 

I know several JWs and former JWs (one of my best church friends is a former JW). In my experience, asking JWs to explain their doctrine of the 144,000 is about as productive as asking a mormon to explain the doctrine of polygamy. 

[Doctrine 612]

The tribe of Dan I read somewhere many Mormon doctrine says that the anti Christ comes from that tribe.

i am from Benjamin and I don't know a lot about them just that the first King of Israel was a Benjaminite and Paul the apostles is one and that they are a war like people, which fits since I find enemies where ever I go.

[rongo]

27 ¶Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.

12 ¶And of Benjamin he said, The beloved of the Lord shall dwell in safety by him; and the Lord shall cover him all the day long, and he shall dwell between his shoulders.

----

Not too much to go on in the Old Testament. 

[CV75]

7 hours ago, halconero said:

We had an interesting panel here in Calgary the other night for a fireside where four of the nearby functioning patriarchs were brought in to do some Q&A. They answered previously submitted questions first and then opened it up towards the end to the attendees. Unfortunately the question I wanted to ask wasn't, and I didn't get the opportunity to raise it. It basically revolves around the promises given to the Tribes of Israel. I'm generally aware of those given to Joseph (and the sub divisions of Ephraim and Manasseh), Judah, and Levi, but haven't been able to find anything on the others.

Does anyone else here have any experience or sources on the promises and obligations associated with other tribes? In my experience a lot of the East Indian converts in Toronto were from Naphtali, Isaachar, and Zebulon, rather than the more typical Ephraim or Manasseh.

I think the Lord reveals to us the meaning of our tribal assignment as we keep our covenants and worthily carry out our assignments in the kingdom. I have the feeling that the "general" tribal role identities become more indistinguishable as the kingdom rolls forth and fills the earth, the eminent and necessary roles that Ephraim and Judah possess in the present notwithstanding. The lands of inheritance in Ezekiel 48 disregard those set forth in Joshua 13-19 in such points as landscape and topography,  suggesting to me an order or course or responsibility and service (similar to the ancient Aaronic/Levitical Priesthood temple service), where all have equal access to the Lord, His kingdom, and His assignments (D&C 88:46-61).

[theplains]

On 22/08/2016 at 1:21 PM, halconero said:

Does anyone else here have any experience or sources on the promises and obligations associated with other tribes? In my experience a lot of the East Indian converts in Toronto were from Naphtali, Isaachar, and Zebulon, rather than the more typical Ephraim or Manasseh.

The Religion 430-431 - Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual (2004) says, “The great majority 
of those who have come into the Church are Ephraimites. It is the exception to find one of any 
other tribe, unless it is of Manasseh. It is Ephraim, today, who holds the priesthood. It is 
Ephraim who is building temples."

Regards,
Jim

[Duncan]

On 8/22/2016 at 3:54 PM, Doctrine 612 said:

The tribe of Dan I read somewhere many Mormon doctrine says that the anti Christ comes from that tribe.

i am from Benjamin and I don't know a lot about them just that the first King of Israel was a Benjaminite and Paul the apostles is one and that they are a war like people, which fits since I find enemies where ever I go.

I know 3 people from Ben! One is super active, former bishop, high council etc. One is hot and cold in the Church and the other apostasized in a big way

[Doctrine 612]

My wife and one of her sisters are from Judah.

[bluebell]

On August 22, 2016 at 0:08 PM, rongo said:

We've gone through what is written in Genesis 49 and Deuteronomy 33 for Family Home Evening many times, so my kids are well-versed on what the different traits/blessings for the tribes are.   While any lineage of Israel is special, Simeon is all negative (at least as far as both of the chapters go). Another interesting item is the fact that Dan is excluded from the list of the 144,000 in Revelation. I used to ask Jehovah's Witnesses why, and they had no idea, and it really bothered them, because the 144,000 is such an important item (I don't know either, I was just asking to see what they thought).

My great-great-great grandfather Thomas E. Jones was one of the United Brethren and emigrated to Nauvoo. His blessing from Hyrum Smith denotes the tribe of Zebulun, but all of his descendants (as far as we can tell) are Ephraim --- showing that it is not direct, lineal descent, but rather, spiritual blessings. At a superficial level, Zebulun's traits center around the sea.

There was a family in my mission (typical white family) with three or four kids (i don't remember anymore) and every person in the family was from Ephraim except one daughter who was declared to be of the tribe of Judah!  They all thought it was the strangest but the coolest thing.

[Buckeye]

On 8/22/2016 at 4:54 PM, Doctrine 612 said:

The tribe of Dan I read somewhere many Mormon doctrine says that the anti Christ comes from that tribe.

i am from Benjamin and I don't know a lot about them just that the first King of Israel was a Benjaminite and Paul the apostles is one and that they are a war like people, which fits since I find enemies where ever I go.

Well, my friend who is from Dan ended up transferring from BYU to the UU. He is now a huge pain in the rear - "blah blah blah ... PAC 12 !! ... blah blah ... What Rivalry? ... blah blah ... Who beat Michigan again? ... blah blah."  So I'm guessing Elder McConkie had him in mind as the antichrist. I certainly do. 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Buckeye

[rongo]

Gotta watch out for those Danites!

[carbon dioxide]

Perhaps there are too many slackers who are from Dan so they were left out.

[Rain]

On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 10:21 AM, halconero said:

We had an interesting panel here in Calgary the other night for a fireside where four of the nearby functioning patriarchs were brought in to do some Q&A. They answered previously submitted questions first and then opened it up towards the end to the attendees. Unfortunately the question I wanted to ask wasn't, and I didn't get the opportunity to raise it. It basically revolves around the promises given to the Tribes of Israel. I'm generally aware of those given to Joseph (and the sub divisions of Ephraim and Manasseh), Judah, and Levi, but haven't been able to find anything on the others.

Does anyone else here have any experience or sources on the promises and obligations associated with other tribes? In my experience a lot of the East Indian converts in Toronto were from Naphtali, Isaachar, and Zebulon, rather than the more typical Ephraim or Manasseh.

Just read your post so far.  I'm interested to read the rest. I've long been interested in it. I tried finding it is the scriptures,  but didn't get very far and it seemed to be mostly curses rather than promises or obligations for the most part.  So I'm excited to read farther. ..

[theplains]

On 22/08/2016 at 1:37 PM, Buckeye said:

That said, I do sometimes share my personal account of how lineage (whether literal or not) has blessed me. I am a typical white guy, so no surprise I'm from Ephraim. I served a mission with hispanics, most of whom are from Manasseh. Those facts, coupled with Ephraim and Manasseh being brothers, somehow helped me to feel an initial strong bond for those I was called to serve.

What do you mean by "white guy"?  And have you have ever met a white guy who was of Manasseh or another tribe?

Thanks,
Jim

[Duncan]

Just now, theplains said:

What do you mean by "white guy"?  And have you have ever met a white guy who was of Manasseh or another tribe?

Thanks,
Jim

yeah, everyone I know who's from Benjamin! one is whiter than white

[mfbukowski]

On 8/22/2016 at 11:08 AM, rongo said:

We've gone through what is written in Genesis 49 and Deuteronomy 33 for Family Home Evening many times, so my kids are well-versed on what the different traits/blessings for the tribes are.   While any lineage of Israel is special, Simeon is all negative (at least as far as both of the chapters go). Another interesting item is the fact that Dan is excluded from the list of the 144,000 in Revelation. I used to ask Jehovah's Witnesses why, and they had no idea, and it really bothered them, because the 144,000 is such an important item (I don't know either, I was just asking to see what they thought).

My great-great-great grandfather Thomas E. Jones was one of the United Brethren and emigrated to Nauvoo. His blessing from Hyrum Smith denotes the tribe of Zebulun, but all of his descendants (as far as we can tell) are Ephraim --- showing that it is not direct, lineal descent, but rather, spiritual blessings. At a superficial level, Zebulun's traits center around the sea.

Good point, I think it is important to remember that.

When you start looking at how many people one is related to in just a few generations, taking it back the number of generations between us and the 12 tribes, and taking into account the number of people IN those 12 tribes in Biblical times, I would guess virtually everyone alive today is a literal descendant of perhaps someone in ALL of the 12 tribes in biblical times, unless they are from a very isolated indigenous population in some corner of the world.  But the genes of even one ancestor who was NOT part of that group- could easily be distributed through the whole "tribe" very quickly.  The living descendants might be certain that they were "Pure" tribe X, simply because they did not know about Grampa Z who dropped by canoe 10 generations ago and decided to stay.   That is why DNA analysis is so fascinating!

Every European today and everyone from European ancestry is probably related to Charlemagne, who lived thousands of years after Jacob/Israel and his 12 sons.

And Charlemagne is ONE human being who had many descendants.  How many other unknown people also had large families which married into large families? https://www.theguardian.com/science/commentisfree/2015/may/24/business-genetic-ancestry-charlemagne-adam-rutherford

Quote

This is merely a numbers game. You have two parents, four grandparents, eight great-grandparents, and so on. But this ancestral expansion is not borne back ceaselessly into the past. If it were, your family tree when Charlemagne was Le Grand Fromage would harbour more than a billion ancestors – more people than were alive then. What this means is that pedigrees begin to fold in on themselves a few generations back, and become less arboreal, and more web-like. In 2013, geneticists Peter Ralph and Graham Coop showed that all Europeans are descended from exactly the same people. Basically, everyone alive in the ninth century who left descendants is the ancestor of every living European today, including Charlemagne, Drogo, Pippin and Hugh. Quel dommage.

When you get into family history in earnest, you really start to understand how quickly one can have hundreds and then thousands of ancestors and descendants.

There really is no way anyone should take patriarchal blessings literally or worry about having fathers and sons or siblings being from a different "tribe" when possibly that family is literally a member of ALL the tribes- or none of them

And even siblings can come from different ancestors!  From Ancestry DNA:

Quote

 

If you’ve already taken the AncestryDNA test, you may think you’re done. You could DNA test your other family members, but they will have similar results as you, right? Well, not quite.

You inherited your DNA from your ancestors and so did the rest of your family, but like most inheritances, it can be complex. It’s true, you share DNA with your family, but each of you gets a unique mix and different amounts from your ancestors. The closer you can get to a DNA source, and the more sources you can identify, the more you can learn about your family.

Why test a family member?

1. Go back further in time with older relatives

By testing the “oldest” DNA in the family tree, you get the strongest connection to the past. Consider this: a fourth cousin to you is a third cousin to your parent and a second cousin to your grandparent. Because the relationship is closer, you can go further back in time with more confidence by testing older relatives. So it always makes sense to test the oldest living relatives in your family tree on all of your branches.

2. Pinpoint new cousins on your family tree

Think of your family tree. It starts with you, then immediately splits into two branches: your paternal and your maternal relatives. You got DNA from both sides—but your parents didn’t. Having them tested lets you divide your tree in half: you can assign one set of matches to your dad’s side and the other to your mom’s. Get your grandparents tested, and you can divide your DNA matches in fourths. If some of your great-grandparents are still alive…well, you get the idea. And testing gets really exciting.

3. Find more cousins

Depending on who you test in your family, you could have some of the same DNA matches, which can give you clues on who the shared ancestor is for that match. But remember, DNA is mixed and inherited differently across your tree. So your family members may have matches that you don’t, which could mean new discoveries in your family tree as well.

 

http://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2013/07/22/already-taken-the-ancestrydna-test-here-are-4-reasons-to-test-other-family-members/

http://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/same-parents-different-ancestry

Edited September 5, 2016 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

Actually I am a Leo.

But my blessings come thru Ephraim.