Elder Holland addresses issue of depression

[UtahTexan]

3 hours ago, consiglieri said:

I think the LDS Church would better serve its members by recognizing the contribution its doctrinal position on perfectionism plays into depression.

I mean, there is a reason depression is so high among LDS . . .

lol....yeah....the Church is so depressing that folks like you hang around to complain...even misleading others sometimes.

So easy to blame the Church.  So easy to throw stones.  

The Church does not depress anyone.  People depress themselves.  We are a society that points fingers and deflects responsibility.  

And then, there are those like those here who dislike the Church so much they can;t stop being around it or the members.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, flameburns623 said:

I am thinking we had a thread recently contradicting the claim that depression is abnormally high among LDS. It's been awhile but I will see if I find it.

Usually people point to antidepressant usage in Utah, which is not the same thing at all.  They also tend to ignore the Mountain corridor's higher rate of depression and suicide.  It would be more appropriate to compare Utah to states of similar altitudes rather than the general US due to the findings that altitude affects depression and suicide rates.

[Calm]

http://en.fairmormon.org/Utah/Statistical_claims/LDS_use_of_antidepressants

http://en.fairmormon.org/Utah/Statistical_claims/Suicide_rate_among_Mormons

[Glenn101]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

I talked to the head of Family Services about 10 years ago (university party) and he informed me they were switching to requiring masters and doctorates in the appropriate fields as well as attempting to expand coverage.  I have no clue if they dismissed those who weren't qualified after a certain time period or were planning on phasing less trained individuals through retirement which would take much longer.  Psychiatrists are needed for effective drug treatment, imo, and I don't know if Family Services actually includes them or just therapists.  I know there is a shortage of psychiatrists in Utah or at least ones willing and able to work with insurance people. We had to go up to SLC tofind one taking new patients.  There was only one pediatric psychiatrist in all of Utah Valley 10 years ago and we had to wait about 6 months to getinto him.  Didn't like him either because he ignored the side effects of the drugs that would cause problems for my daughter's physical problems as he claimed he was only there to treat the psycholical issues of anxiety and depression...which completely ignored the factthat her diabetes and sleep disorderwere the major causes of them.  He had great credentials though but arrogance can make the most qualified doctor make mistakes.

I live on the (South) East Coast. I don't know how well staffed the Family Services people are here. The counselor I talked with was pretty good, but left me feeling hopeless after his assessment of my and my chances to overcome my problems. He did not diagnose/understand what the root problem was.

Finding a good psychologist who properly diagnosed my problems and gave/taught me the tools to begin healing or rather overcoming them was what saved me.

Glenn

[Rain]

6 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

I do not know how well trained the professionals in the LDS family services department are. I have had some dealings with them in the past and the ones that I dealt with were pretty good but not equipped to deal with chronic, clinical depression. People in general are really just beginning to become aware of the problem of depression, i.e. that it is not a temporary state of mind for some people, but a daily battle that some lose.

It is good to see that our leadership in the church is picking up on this also.

Glenn

The professionals I have worked with had their own practice or worked in a practice and then worked for family services 1 or 2 days/nights a week. So how good they are will vary. You also need to get a good fit for you personally just like you would a medical doctor. 

[Rain]

5 hours ago, Jeanne said:

On so many levels..this is so true.  Expectations that are unrealistic and trying to please so many sets one up for failure.  

I've found that those who feel expectations are too much most often are missing the basics of gospel and the atonement. To steal what someone else said, they believe in the atonement, but don't believe in it for themselves. They don't get that they are not supposed to do Christ's work as well as their own. 

Expectations do not create depression. If that were the case everyone would be depressed.  How we handle expectations MAY be a component, though what I have found is how we handle expectations is SOMETIMES  a symptom of depression,  not a cause.   

[Rain]

8 hours ago, flameburns623 said:

What do folks think?

Is this a good start?

One in a series of attempts, which perhaps have seen too much talk and too little action?

Given that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is an ecclesial community and not a mental health arvocate: what more can or should the Church do to help those with emotional difficulties?

To enhance their lives?

To enable them within the Church family.

Please: at any given time, we have numerous threads addressing the LGBTQ+ issue. Some folks actually suffer distress unrelated to their genitalia. Can we address this topic without droning on yet further about sexuality? Thanks!

http://beta.deseretnews.com/article/865656534/LDS-Church-releases-new-video-of-Elder-Holland-addressing-depression.html

I like it.  As someone on the edge of  third depressive period I find a lot of truth in it.  

[ladyshanae]

I appreciate the recognition that reading your scriptures, praying more, and repenting (because you are obviously sinning) are not the cure all for chronic depression.

As for expectations in the LDS faith contributing to depression, I agree to a point. It's easy to feel like everything is a requirement and if you don't go to something, you are a sinner. But the reality is much different. Yes, we might feel pressure to do everything, but we really don't have to. To me, the most important thing is the Sacrament and keeping my covenants. That doesn't involve attending every ward activity nor does it require me saying yes to everything.

I wish more people would put their mental health ahead of the constant desire to be everything to everyone inside and outside the church.

[Guest]

I was in a Stake meeting with Elder Holland once, where he spoke of this and the difficulties that even General Authorties have with travel being away from home and family. He spoke of his own battles there and at General Confrerece, how no one is spared times of trouble, the blues or depression. It is not a sin to feel or be depressed, and certainly not a sin to seek help. When serving in leadership roles, Bishopric, High Priest Group Leader (for eight straight years) I was always sure to ask during PPI's how a person was doing with work, family, calling and self. On more than one occasion I would recommend or release someone if they felt overwhelmed. During a PPI, with Stake President I told him of my own feelings and difficulties I was having, he got me help immediately. I asked if I would be released, his reply; "Do not worry about that right now, you worry about your family first and let the other take care of itself".

Often times leaders suffer (not only Priesthood leadership) from burnout because they fail to delegate, not because they don't know how...some just don't want to ask for help, or figure it will just be easier to do it themselves. It won't! Very often people confuse being tired or exhausted with depression, but they are not always the same but, but do most always go hand in hand. The medical field has better medicines to treat depression, but fewer doctors who have the time or take the time to deal with depression, so in some cases more meds are given out, and no counseling. For many cases doctors were giving meds to young people that led to more depression and suicide. Those who need help they should seek it without fear of judgement and scorn. The truly distributed people are the ones who use the use and prescription of such medications as a means to attack another's faith. 😢

[James Tunney]

13 hours ago, CountryBoy said:

lol....yeah....the Church is so depressing that folks like you hang around to complain...even misleading others sometimes.

So easy to blame the Church.  So easy to throw stones.  

The Church does not depress anyone.  People depress themselves.  We are a society that points fingers and deflects responsibility.  

And then, there are those like those here who dislike the Church so much they can;t stop being around it or the members.

Well, is the church ever responsible for its actions? If we are about taking personal responsibility, then perhaps the church should too? I think Consiglieri wanted to point out that taking responsibility goes both ways. Clearly the misguided perfectionism of some causes depression and the church does contribute to it.

[UtahTexan]

7 hours ago, James Tunney said:

Well, is the church ever responsible for its actions? If we are about taking personal responsibility, then perhaps the church should too? I think Consiglieri wanted to point out that taking responsibility goes both ways. Clearly the misguided perfectionism of some causes depression and the church does contribute to it.

The Church is the Church.  It teaches the Gospel.  If the Word of God depresses people, they need to take a long look at themselves.  Non-Consiglieri simply likes throwing stones......the Church is so bad he hangs here...

[Jeanne]

The church isn't depressing.  In my young girl days, it was the only thing I had to look forward to.  There would have not been anything to do if it wasn't for the church.  As I got older with different life experiences, the things that were instilled, though sometimes good, always held a silent message of ...do better..be better..you are not doing enough..you are not perfect and can't be with your family unless you are.  That does something to the mind that is already fragile with some outside life experience and just plain trying to find yourself and your talents.  It is not that the church is essentially depressing but that the mindset of enduring..of struggling to always make good decisions overlaps the outside world that is often really depressing.  Of course not everyone is like this.  It depends on whether the church is your whole world and how you see the world outside those church walls. So hard to explain and I am not doing a good job here.  But it is not anything to laugh about or make fun of. 

[consiglieri]

22 hours ago, CountryBoy said:

The Church does not depress anyone.  People depress themselves.   

Again we see the constant refrain that the Church does nothing wrong.  It is the members who are all screwed up.

And of course, the Church has nothing to do with the fact the members are screwed up. 

If you have a person who grew up with perfectionist parents and suffers from depression because he could never please them, that is all the kids fault.

 

Right?

[UtahTexan]

4 minutes ago, consiglieri said:

Again we see the constant refrain that the Church does nothing wrong.  It is the members who are all screwed up.

And of course, the Church has nothing to do with the fact the members are screwed up. 

If you have a person who grew up with perfectionist parents and suffers from depression because he could never please them, that is all the kids fault.

 

Right?

You are making an irrelevant analogy (that means not pertinent, Non-Consiglieiri).  The Church teaches God's law.  If people are depressed by that, they need to look at themselves.  Stop pointing fingers at a Church just because dislike it.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, consiglieri said:

Again we see the constant refrain that the Church does nothing wrong.  It is the members who are all screwed up.

And of course, the Church has nothing to do with the fact the members are screwed up. 

If you have a person who grew up with perfectionist parents and suffers from depression because he could never please them, that is all the kids fault.

 

Right?

If I may...The Church does not act as a single person might. Bishops, Stake Presidents and parents all work differently. So without a doubt many put undue burdens, while taking their cues from Leadership meetings. What they (we) all need to better is to find an  excersize programs that does not include beating up on ourselves for not being perfect. We can and do find perfection in Christ, not in our efforts alone, if at all. 

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, consiglieri said:

Again we see the constant refrain that the Church does nothing wrong.  It is the members who are all screwed up.

That is a doctrinal position so yes.

2 hours ago, consiglieri said:

And of course, the Church has nothing to do with the fact the members are screwed up. 

I blame it on the Fall.

2 hours ago, consiglieri said:

If you have a person who grew up with perfectionist parents and suffers from depression because he could never please them, that is all the kids fault.

We have perfectionist parents, that is also doctrinal. One of the keys of the Gospel is that we only become perfect when we realize we will never get perfect and still keep trying anyways while relying on another to perfect us.

Of course I think in this case you mean perfectionist parents who are not sympathetic to human weakness which is what God is not. He made us weak on purpose. He says so outright. If you believe God will punish us for human weakness when he gave it to us.....well, that is a pretty mean God.

Of course in my experience most of the people who complain the most about how guilty the church makes them feel are prideful. They are going to make it on their own if it kills them and it usually does.

[flameburns623]

I can think of messages from General Authorities which are reassuring and consoling, which encourage believers to trust the mercy and the love of Christ insofar as none of us can do it all, be it all, or achieve it all.

I can also think of messages which set the pace, which set the mark, which hold members to an unrealistic high standard that we might stretch ourselves.

I tend to think that both are needful and that we need to work out within ourselves a balance between being the best we absolutely can be, and resting upon the mercies and the grace of God. 

One cause of depression among LDS may be the struggle to achieve such a balance. Or even to recognize that such a balance is needed.

Perhaps the Church could do more to encourage such balance?

[Thinking]

I'm glad he said this...

Quote

If you had appendicitis, God would expect you to seek a priesthood blessing and get the best medical care available. So too with emotional disorders. Our Father in Heaven expects us to use all of the marvelous gifts He has provided in this glorious dispensation.

 

[VideoGameJunkie]

I posted and my post disappeared. Now im scared.

[Bernard Gui]

On June 20, 2016 at 2:01 PM, consiglieri said:

I think the LDS Church would better serve its members by recognizing the contribution its doctrinal position on perfectionism plays into depression.

I mean, there is a reason depression is so high among LDS . . .

I think this is a gross simplification of the issue of depression in our society and in the Church. One of the reasons there is more reported depression in the Church is that we don't self-medicate with drugs and alcohol. Often we mistake it for having done something to lose the Spirit, or as a punishment for sin, or as just being weak. When I was experiencing a severe and life-threatening clinical depression, I was certain I was guilty of some deep dark sin, and it took a combination of Priesthood blessings and counsel, doctors, and prescription medicine, not to mention the most important thing-the support of Mrs Gui and some of the little Guis-to get me through it. It's nothing to trifle with, and it certainly should never be used as a stick to beat up the Church.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

On June 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, The Nehor said:

I really wish the depressed would just suck it up and cheer up a bit.

I know you're joking, and when I look at depression from the other side, it's kind of a funny joke in a perverse way. But I did have friends who couldn't understand why I just couldn't bounce back on my own. It doesn't happen that way.

[Bernard Gui]

On June 20, 2016 at 0:53 PM, Glenn101 said:

I do not know how well trained the professionals in the LDS family services department are. I have had some dealings with them in the past and the ones that I dealt with were pretty good but not equipped to deal with chronic, clinical depression. People in general are really just beginning to become aware of the problem of depression, i.e. that it is not a temporary state of mind for some people, but a daily battle that some lose.

It is good to see that our leadership in the church is picking up on this also.

Glenn

LDS Family Services does provide counseling and their people are trained and certified. They also give references to out-of-house counselors who are sympathetic or at least familiar with the LDS people and their circumstances. Chronic clinical depression requires a medical doctor, and Family Service folks are well aware of that. When I was going through that very thing, I asked my doctor what people did before we had modern resources. His reply: "They became alcoholic or addicted, were institutionalized, or killed themselves." Not happy choices. Unfortunately, many still do those things today.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

On June 20, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Jeanne said:

On so many levels..this is so true.  Expectations that are unrealistic and trying to please so many sets one up for failure.  My problem was I had two parents on different levels of belief of the gospel.  Trying to please both of them set me up to hurt one or the other. 

The problem was not the gospel, but in how two parents approached it.

[Bernard Gui]

On June 20, 2016 at 4:15 PM, Calm said:

I talked to the head of Family Services about 10 years ago (university party) and he informed me they were switching to requiring masters and doctorates in the appropriate fields as well as attempting to expand coverage.  I have no clue if they dismissed those who weren't qualified after a certain time period or were planning on phasing less trained individuals through retirement which would take much longer.  Psychiatrists are needed for effective drug treatment, imo, and I don't know if Family Services actually includes them or just therapists.  I know there is a shortage of psychiatrists in Utah or at least ones willing and able to work with insurance people. We had to go up to SLC tofind one taking new patients.  There was only one pediatric psychiatrist in all of Utah Valley 10 years ago and we had to wait about 6 months to getinto him.  Didn't like him either because he ignored the side effects of the drugs that would cause problems for my daughter's physical problems as he claimed he was only there to treat the psycholical issues of anxiety and depression...which completely ignored the factthat her diabetes and sleep disorderwere the major causes of them.  He had great credentials though but arrogance can make the most qualified doctor make mistakes.

We have had difficulty finding adequate medical care and counseling for our son Doloroso, and we live in Washington. Qualified people are few and far between, and finding the right match can be daunting.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

15 hours ago, James Tunney said:

Well, is the church ever responsible for its actions? If we are about taking personal responsibility, then perhaps the church should too? I think Consiglieri wanted to point out that taking responsibility goes both ways. Clearly the misguided perfectionism of some causes depression and the church does contribute to it.

My experience is that what the individual brings to the game has much more to do with depression than what the Church expects of us.