Jeanne Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 23 minutes ago, CountryBoy said: Ah....shucks. More insults....lol Just because my opinion is above you, it is not ignorant. But...to be fair....anything YOU call ignorant, I figure is spot on. So...thank you Why is your opinion above anyone's???
UtahTexan Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Then the church has no effects for good or ill. Fair enough. Seriously, though, I don't blame the church. It has been a big part of who I am, and I recognize the good I've gotten from it as well as the bad. Saying I blame the church would be like blaming life. now who is reading into things to his own benefit. I asked a question....you did not answer. Either it DID make sense, but since it messes up with your theory, you refused to answer, or, you did not get it. How about this..... There is a bowl of chocolate ice cream. We both eat from the same bowl. For me, it is euphoric. It makes you sick. Is the ice cream bad? Is it the ice cream's fault? But It was soooo good for me. Hmmmmm But I agree...blaming the Church is like blaming life..or law school, or ice cream. Somethings just are. Did my wife cause my depression when I was depressed? I truly do not think so.....so much was going wrong and I think I just let it overwhelm me....when I realized I was depressed, I chose to not be. It was not easy. Gosh...it was hard. But I refused to be controlled. Edited June 23, 2016 by CountryBoy
UtahTexan Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Why is your opinion above anyone's??? Please show me where I said it was.
jkwilliams Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 Just now, CountryBoy said: now who is reading into things to his own benefit. I asked a question....you did not answer. Either it DID make sense, but since it messes up with your theory, you refused to answer, or, you did not get it. How about this..... There is a bowl of chocolate ice cream. We both eat from the same bowl. For me, it is euphoric. It makes you sick. Is the ice cream bad? Is it the ice cream's fault? But It was soooo good for me. Hmmmmm Nothing to disagree with. The church isn't bad any more than your hypothetical ice cream is. What makes you think I believe the church is bad or that any of my problems are the church's fault? I know, you read my posts, but then I suspect you just read them that way.
Jeanne Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, CountryBoy said: Please show me where I said it was. Two posts above mine. To Ttribe.. you stated "Just because my opinion is above you"
UtahTexan Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, jkwilliams said: Nothing to disagree with. The church isn't bad any more than your hypothetical ice cream is. What makes you think I believe the church is bad or that any of my problems are the church's fault? I know, you read my posts, but then I suspect you just read them that way. No....I thought I had a paragraph that did not appear that acknowledged what you said. Not sure what happened to it. I edited my post before I saw this one.
UtahTexan Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Jeanne said: Two posts above mine. To Ttribe.. you stated "Just because my opinion is above you" Ah....first, I never said my opinions are above EVERYONE elses. and, in fact, in this post, I simply meant my opinion was beyond hi understanding....not better than.....I said "above you" not "above yours" 1
jkwilliams Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, CountryBoy said: No....I thought I had a paragraph that did not appear that acknowledged what you said. Not sure what happened to it. I edited my post before I saw this one. I appreciate that. We don't have to be enemies just because you believe and I don't.
UtahTexan Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: I appreciate that. We don't have to be enemies just because you believe and I don't. My gosh...I never considered us enemies. This is a debate. As attorneys, and as a city councilman, we have had knock-down dragouts.....and then after court or after a council meeting, we go have a burger. I do not take anything personally. I will be the first to defend the Church....but also the first to say, "if you are in SLC, let's have lunch." That isd..if you can handle my Texas accent......well...folks say I have one...I think I talk normal and all the folks HERE have accents Edited June 23, 2016 by CountryBoy 1
ttribe Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, CountryBoy said: Ah....first, I never said my opinions are above EVERYONE elses. and, in fact, in this post, I simply meant my opinion was beyond hi understanding....not better than.....I said "above you" not "above yours" Yes, my feeble intellect is utterly incapable of "understanding" your opinion that depression can simply be overcome because you will that to be the case and that anyone who doesn't agree with your prescription is, by definition, weak or without strength. I'm not sure how I can go on knowing you are my intellectual superior. Whatever shall I do? 1
Jeanne Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, CountryBoy said: Ah....first, I never said my opinions are above EVERYONE elses. and, in fact, in this post, I simply meant my opinion was beyond hi understanding....not better than.....I said "above you" not "above yours" My bad...btw...I am having trouble with quotes and editing on this thread..talk about depressing!
UtahTexan Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, ttribe said: Yes, my feeble intellect is utterly incapable of "understanding" your opinion that depression can simply be overcome because you will that to be the case and that anyone who doesn't agree with your prescription is, by definition, weak or without strength. I'm not sure how I can go on knowing you are my intellectual superior. Whatever shall I do? No clue. But....admitting is the first step
UtahTexan Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Jeanne said: My bad...btw...I am having trouble with quotes and editing on this thread..talk about depressing! lol...I have never been able to do it well......
Rain Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 59 minutes ago, CountryBoy said: That is like saying, My father demanded I always follow the law. I broke the law. My father is upset because I broke the law. Him demanding I keep the law has depressed me." No. Your own actions caused it. Just because the Church has standards does not mean they should bend them to suit you so you will not get depressed. Again...it takes strength. And, though I never felt particularly unique about my strength....apparently, here, I am very unique. Maybe it is a Utah thing. I dunno. Quote Ether12:27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. I did not feel strong in my depressions. The first time I felt the weakest of mankind. The second time I felt weaker than most, but knew from going through it the first time there was light at the end of the tunnel. Holding on to Christ I became stronger. Like I said above. One size does not fit all. You may have been able to press through it. Heavenly Father very clearly told me my second time that I needed to be on medication. What I have found is that strength does not always mean I do everything myself and push through it. Sometimes it just means you hold on with every ounce you have inside of you till the meds start working and your body levels out. Sometimes it means you go in and go get counseling. Sometimes it means recognizing you are too weak to take care of your children let alone yourself and you let them go with someone else for a time or for forever. Sometimes it means daring to go in to a bishop. Sometimes it means that you will let yourself be checked in to a hospital. And in the end you find you are strong because you did all things through Christ who strengthened you in your weaknesses. 1
James Tunney Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 51 minutes ago, CountryBoy said: Again....you are trying to find blame on everything else. Let me try this.... Law School had a very negative effect in my life. It was hard. it was all-consuming. It left me very tired and mentally exhausted. If I work myself sick in law school to the point I am ill, is it law school's fault? No. Many people experience the same exact thing and are fine. Maybe it is how I handled it. maybe it is because I also had to full-time while others didn't. Did the standards and work load law school cause it? No. Not at all. The Church did not cause anything. Did it disappoint? Did some members make it tough? If I told you what members did to me in 1989, it would make your hair stand on end. But was that the Church? No. Does that make sense? I guess my problem is that the demands of the church are impossible to meet and one is blamed for not meeting them. At least in law school most finish and get their degree despite it being difficult. With the church there are impossible time commitments and many thought crimes that are impossible to avoid. Also, no one really ever knows in this life if they are ever doing enough because there is always something else to do and improve upon. To me it's like the mission president who asks the missionaries to meet a goal that the mission has ever met and then blames the missionaries when the impossible isn't met. 1
UtahTexan Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 9 minutes ago, James Tunney said: I guess my problem is that the demands of the church are impossible to meet and one is blamed for not meeting them. At least in law school most finish and get their degree despite it being difficult. With the church there are impossible time commitments and many thought crimes that are impossible to avoid. Also, no one really ever knows in this life if they are ever doing enough because there is always something else to do and improve upon. To me it's like the mission president who asks the missionaries to meet a goal that the mission has ever met and then blames the missionaries when the impossible isn't met. shrugs.....most do not graduate...the common first day, "look to your left and to your right....only one of you will graduate." Then, you gotta pass the bar. If you have trouble with demands of the Church, and someone else doesn't, what does that say? In law school, I went to school full-time, worked full-time (most law schools forbid that). I drove 2 hours a day to and from....I had a wife that did not speak English or drive so I did not all the shopping and doctors etc. I had one child born during first semester and one during last....last semester I also worked a part-time job on top of all that (full-time job AND part time job)...and I had my home teaching and other Church callings. I do not think I am that special. If I can handle it, others also can. I guess, what I am saying is.....depression is hard to overcome....I know...I have been thru it. I think we can do and overcome anything...if we work and try and pray hard enough. But....also...it is wrong to blame the Church...or law school, or your wife....or your job. It is you...the unreasonable goals, or a dozen other reasons......but if the Church and its standards are to blame...then all of us should be depressed and unable to comply.
James Tunney Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, CountryBoy said: shrugs.....most do not graduate...the common first day, "look to your left and to your right....only one of you will graduate." Then, you gotta pass the bar. If you have trouble with demands of the Church, and someone else doesn't, what does that say? In law school, I went to school full-time, worked full-time (most law schools forbid that). I drove 2 hours a day to and from....I had a wife that did not speak English or drive so I did not all the shopping and doctors etc. I had one child born during first semester and one during last....last semester I also worked a part-time job on top of all that (full-time job AND part time job)...and I had my home teaching and other Church callings. I do not think I am that special. If I can handle it, others also can. I guess, what I am saying is.....depression is hard to overcome....I know...I have been thru it. I think we can do and overcome anything...if we work and try and pray hard enough. But....also...it is wrong to blame the Church...or law school, or your wife....or your job. It is you...the unreasonable goals, or a dozen other reasons......but if the Church and its standards are to blame...then all of us should be depressed and unable to comply. In my law school practically all passed and passed the bar. Also, if you run somebody too hard with tasks they can't meet then it's not surprising they shut down or get depressed when they can't meet it. Finally, it's probably the minority of people that are really affected and others in varying degrees. You know, a continuum.
VideoGameJunkie Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 10 hours ago, jkwilliams said: Yeah, it sucks, but imagine how bad it would be for us if we didn't have meds. My life is better because of modern medicine. I thank God every day I live today with modern medicine.
Doctor Steuss Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 14 hours ago, CountryBoy said: Ah...but I do. I was so depressed after my divorce that I almost committed suicide. An accidental intervention prevented it. I went to the VA Psych folks. They diagnosed me and wanted to prescribe meds The side effects sounded more depressing than my depression. Once I was diagnosed, I realized what it was. I determined NOT to be depressed. I self-cured. All I needed was the knowledge and prayer. So...you are wrong. May YOU never be where I was...and if you are....I pray you are not as weak as folks here sound It is all a matter of strength. Inner will. I have had 6 knee surgeries and a broken back....but, I have learned to deal with the pain and walk a minimum of 5 miles a day. I have had constant tinnitus since 1993. A tone that never goes away. Constant. 24/7. For 23 years. Sometimes, it is so loud, I cannot believe others do not hear it. At night, it would keep me awake until I started playing nature sounds at night. I have learned to mostly block it out or it would drive me crazy. Life is what it is. I could depressed that I had no father (abandoned after being beaten till I was 5...later practically sold). But I choose not to be. I lean on Heavenlly Father. I cannot tell you how much strength I get from that. Machismo awesomeness duly noted. 1
jkwilliams Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 Just now, Doctor Steuss said: Machismo awesomeness duly noted. Thank heavens the meds work, or us weaklings would be screwed.
stemelbow Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 Thinking about mental illness, why it is, how we're supposed to deal with it, drives me crazy.
Doctor Steuss Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 5 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Thank heavens the meds work, or us weaklings would be screwed. My wife still gets a kick out of the fact that the most stable relationship she has ever been in has been with a man that's bipolar. When I'm having a really crap day, she'll sometimes say these to me. Cracks me up every time. http://www.healthyplace.com/blogs/breakingbipolar/2010/09/stop-minimizing-mental-illness-worst-things-to-say/ As a side note, I readily admit that I'm very sensitive, and "weak" when it comes to emotions and pain. And I wouldn't change that for the world.
jkwilliams Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Doctor Steuss said: My wife still gets a kick out of the fact that the most stable relationship she has ever been in has been with a man that's bipolar. When I'm having a really crap day, she'll sometimes say these to me. Cracks me up every time. http://www.healthyplace.com/blogs/breakingbipolar/2010/09/stop-minimizing-mental-illness-worst-things-to-say/ As a side note, I readily admit that I'm very sensitive, and "weak" when it comes to emotions and pain. And I wouldn't change that for the world. Sometimes I wish I was bipolar. At least I'd have the ups. I'm still shaking my head that someone thinks that people with depression can "self-cure" and that anyone who doesn't is "weak." I suppose if I click my heels together and repeat, "Stop absorbing serotonin at such a rapid rate!" I'll be just fine. 2
thesometimesaint Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 8 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Sometimes I wish I was bipolar. At least I'd have the ups. I'm still shaking my head that someone thinks that people with depression can "self-cure" and that anyone who doesn't is "weak." I suppose if I click my heels together and repeat, "Stop absorbing serotonin at such a rapid rate!" I'll be just fine. The only self cure is to willingly going to the therapist.
Doctor Steuss Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 20 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Sometimes I wish I was bipolar. At least I'd have the ups. I'm still shaking my head that someone thinks that people with depression can "self-cure" and that anyone who doesn't is "weak." I suppose if I click my heels together and repeat, "Stop absorbing serotonin at such a rapid rate!" I'll be just fine. Lol! Well, the ups aren't all they're cracked up to be. Back in the days of self-medicating, I wiped out my savings account more times that I'd like to admit on a bipolar bender. One of the hardest things that I had to learn to do is to run any ideas that I get while "up" by someone. My dad is usually my go-to. Many a phone conversation has started with "Hey dad, I have an idea, but I'm not sure if it's a bipolar idea..." That, and when you hit the point where you start hearing and seeing things... it can be a wee bit unnerving. Unless, of course, one of the voices tends to be funny. 4
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