Apostles foreknowledge of the calling

[Jeanne]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Why would you think that having different experiences makes you a crap person??

Actually, I just feel like I am a bad person if my experience doesn't match others.  I am sure it is just me.  Not sure why I feel this way but it is hard to feel like you are always wrong.

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Actually, I just feel like I am a bad person if my experience doesn't match others.  I am sure it is just me.  Not sure why I feel this way but it is hard to feel like you are always wrong.

I don't know about you, but often when I recount my experiences that differ from others', I'm accused of lying or being a bad person. Maybe that's just sunk in with you. As long as we're truthful about what we've experienced, we shouldn't feel like we're "crap people," even though some people tell us we are.

[Jeanne]

3 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I don't know about you, but often when I recount my experiences that differ from others', I'm accused of lying or being a bad person. Maybe that's just sunk in with you. As long as we're truthful about what we've experienced, we shouldn't feel like we're "crap people," even though some people tell us we are.

Thank you.  I appreciate this more than you know.  I have been truthful.  And my feelings here about all this is not because anyone is unkind.  It is just the way it is and human nature.

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, Jeanne said:

Thank you.  I appreciate this more than you know.  I have been truthful.  And my feelings here about all this is not because anyone is unkind.  It is just the way it is and human nature.

Oh, I know. I don't bear any grudges, but it is disheartening to have people tell you that you didn't actually experience what you did, especially when they accuse of deliberately making it up out of malice. You're not a crap person at all, and I'm glad you're here.

[Jeanne]

1 minute ago, jkwilliams said:

Oh, I know. I don't bear any grudges, but it is disheartening to have people tell you that you didn't actually experience what you did, especially when they accuse of deliberately making it up out of malice. You're not a crap person at all, and I'm glad you're here.

I agree and thank you again.  I will bow out of this thread now and let it get back on topic.  I apologize for taking it to a different place.

[Tacenda]

4 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Oh, I know. I don't bear any grudges, but it is disheartening to have people tell you that you didn't actually experience what you did, especially when they accuse of deliberately making it up out of malice. You're not a crap person at all, and I'm glad you're here.

Me too!  

Edited May 23, 2016 by Tacenda

[bluebell]

16 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Actually, I just feel like I am a bad person if my experience doesn't match others.  I am sure it is just me.  Not sure why I feel this way but it is hard to feel like you are always wrong.

It doesn't mean you are a bad person, it just suggests that when you are describing your experience, you recognize that it is yours (and valid) but that doesn't mean it's everyone's.  Sometimes you make statements of fact that aren't really fact so people challenge them.  It's not that your experience is wrong, but stating that your experience is the only kind that causes problems.

As you see from JK, you aren't unique in your experiences with PBs.

[jkwilliams]

Just now, bluebell said:

It doesn't mean you are a bad person, it just suggests that when you are describing your experience, you recognize that it is yours (and valid) but that doesn't mean it's everyone's.  Sometimes you make statements of fact that aren't really fact so people challenge them.  It's not that your experience is wrong, but stating that your experience is the only kind that causes problems.

As you see from JK, you aren't unique in your experiences with PBs.

Heaven help the church if my experience "is the only kind."

It would be foolish of me or anyone else to generalize how the church operates based solely on our individual experience. But it's just as foolish, IMO, to dismiss someone's experience as irrelevant simply because it doesn't match ours, especially if we dismiss it as being motivated by dishonesty and malice. 

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, jkwilliams said:

Heaven help the church if my experience "is the only kind."

It would be foolish of me or anyone else to generalize how the church operates based solely on our individual experience. But it's just as foolish, IMO, to dismiss someone's experience as irrelevant simply because it doesn't match ours, especially if we dismiss it as being motivated by dishonesty and malice. 

I was thinking specifically of Jeanne's statement -"I was devastated to find out that these blessings are basically a memorized script."  Of course a statement like that is going to be challenged.

[jkwilliams]

Just now, bluebell said:

I was thinking specifically of Jeanne's statement -"I was devastated to find out that these blessings are basically a memorized script."  Of course a statement like that is going to be challenged.

I didn't see her as generalizing beyond her and her friends, but I can see how you read it that way. My wife's patriarchal blessing is quite different from mine. I wonder, however, if hers is similar to those given to young women in her stake by the same patriarch. I don't know.

[Tacenda]

I didn't get a PB early in my life, but received it late, I'd been married and had 4 kids.  It didn't give me much, just stated I was a peace maker.  

[jkwilliams]

Just now, Tacenda said:

I didn't get a PB early in my life, but received it late, I'd been married and had 4 kids.  It didn't give me much, just stated I was a peace maker.  

Sounds pretty accurate to me.

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, jkwilliams said:

Sounds pretty accurate to me.

I try, until I just want to scream and throw things.  So it was somewhat right.  Thanks for the compliment though!

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I try, until I just want to scream and throw things.  So it was somewhat right.  Thanks for the compliment though!

I don't like confrontation, believe it or not. Of course, my primary intent is to drive certain people crazy.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

2 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

I am not saying our stake patriarch used a memorized script. I just found it disappointing that my friends and I all pretty much got the same blessing. I never expected that.

Perhaps why the church gives the following advice:

https://www.lds.org/liahona/2004/03/about-patriarchal-blessings?lang=eng

 

Quote

Should I let others read my blessing?

Your blessing is personal, between you and Heavenly Father. You might share your blessing with family members or others who are close to you. But blessings should be guarded and never compared with those of others.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

4 hours ago, Duncan said:

Do you think the Lord would reveal in some capacity to men who would be called as Apostles of their future calling? I read once of Pres. McKay say that he has extended the call to many, many  men to serve as Mission Presidents but has surprised very few. I just wonder if that would apply to Apostles.

After serving in a Stake Presidency, a good friend had a prompting that that he would be the next Stake President. Didn't happen.

Edited May 23, 2016 by SeekingUnderstanding

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Perhaps why the church gives the following advice:

https://www.lds.org/liahona/2004/03/about-patriarchal-blessings?lang=eng

I have no idea. It was just very disappointing to find out mine was a virtual copy of my friend's. I should note that he, like me, was told he would be a judge in Israel and would one day be ordained to the highest quorums of the priesthood to devise ways and means of spreading the gospel throughout the world. With a couple of minor exceptions, his blessing was identical to mine, verbatim. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

31 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I have no idea. It was just very disappointing to find out mine was a virtual copy of my friend's. I should note that he, like me, was told he would be a judge in Israel and would one day be ordained to the highest quorums of the priesthood to devise ways and means of spreading the gospel throughout the world. With a couple of minor exceptions, his blessing was identical to mine, verbatim. 

Ever since I found out about cold readings, I've been less than impressed with Patriarchal Blessings. In the video below Derren Brown greets 5 people, asks for a hand print and a personal item and then he writes up a sketch describing their personalities. Each is astounded that it matches them so well. This is repeated in three different cities. It turns out that the descriptions he gave them were all identical...

 

 

Edited May 23, 2016 by SeekingUnderstanding

[cinepro]

4 hours ago, Duncan said:

Do you think the Lord would reveal in some capacity to men who would be called as Apostles of their future calling? I read once of Pres. McKay say that he has extended the call to many, many  men to serve as Mission Presidents but has surprised very few. I just wonder if that would apply to Apostles.

I don't "think" it happens, I know it happens.  I have personally known many people to whom the Lord revealed that they will one day be Apostles (or should be), including a few mission companions. 

[Analytics]

This calls to mind three experiences from my mission.

The first is that after I received my mission call but before I actually left, I was at the local ward and saw that an acquaintance from the neighboring ward was already in the mission to where I had been called.  The thought that immediately popped into my mind was that he would be my trainer when I arrived in Argentina.  And I was right.

The second is that one of my friends from the MTC really liked his trainer, and when his trainer got transferred he said, "I prophesy that you and I will be companions again."  Five months later the trainer was an AP, and 3 months after that his greenie was called to be an AP, again serving as a companion to the trainer.  Sort of faith-promoting, but everyone knew it was awfully convenient that the AP had a lot of influence over the transfers, including who would be his new companion.

The third is that a missionary's patriarchal blessing said that he was going to be an AP on his mission (that seemed like a weirdly specific blessing, but I heard stake patriarchs in Argentina were more likely to give that type of blessing).  He worked really hard thinking that if he weren't called to be an AP it was because his wasn't faithful enough to achieve what he had been foreordained to achieve.  He never became AP, and was really distraught about it.  

[Duncan]

15 minutes ago, cinepro said:

I don't "think" it happens, I know it happens.  I have personally known many people to whom the Lord revealed that they will one day be Apostles (or should be), including a few mission companions. 

hahahahhahahahahhahha! without them the church would crumble like crackers!

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, Analytics said:

This calls to mind three experiences from my mission.

The first is that after I received my mission call but before I actually left, I was at the local ward and saw that an acquaintance from the neighboring ward was already in the mission to where I had been called.  The thought that immediately popped into my mind was that he would be my trainer when I arrived in Argentina.  And I was right.

The second is that one of my friends from the MTC really liked his trainer, and when his trainer got transferred he said, "I prophesy that you and I will be companions again."  Five months later the trainer was an AP, and 3 months after that his greenie was called to be an AP, again serving as a companion to the trainer.  Sort of faith-promoting, but everyone knew it was awfully convenient that the AP had a lot of influence over the transfers, including who would be his new companion.

The third is that a missionary's patriarchal blessing said that he was going to be an AP on his mission (that seemed like a weirdly specific blessing, but I heard stake patriarchs in Argentina were more likely to give that type of blessing).  He worked really hard thinking that if he weren't called to be an AP it was because his wasn't faithful enough to achieve what he had been foreordained to achieve.  He never became AP, and was really distraught about it.  

We had a similar thing happen in our mission. A missionary believed he would be called as AP at some point in his mission. I was working in the mission office at the time, and one of the APs was getting ready to go home. This other guy was absolutely convinced that he would take the departing AP's place. Didn't happen. The other AP was going home in a few months, and this guy decided that, since the AP was known for his musical abilities, he would demonstrate, whenever possible, his musical abilities, and he made some recordings of Saturday's Warrior-type songs, translated into broken Spanish, and sent them to the APs and the mission president. The only one I remember was the one to the tune of "Who are these people coming down?" that went, "Que es esto que escucho? Puede ser especiaaaaalllllll!" (What is this I hear? It could be special!"). We had many a good laugh over that one.

The guy never was called to be AP, or even zone leader. Probably was the music.

[Freedom]

I do not know of any who knew before hand. We are prepared for callings not by knowing what they are, but by being given opportunities to master the skills required for the call. Having said that, I do recall one time that I knew the call before it came. I was out of town and the bishop called me on my cell. We were good friends so it was no surprise to get a call from him. This time, however, as I saw his name on my call display I knew what was coming and I accepted it before he had time to ask. I understood later that my knowing was a comfort to him because he had wrestled over this calling. In other words, my foreknowledge was not for me but for him. Of course, it wasn't like I knew weeks in advance. 

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, Freedom said:

I do not know of any who knew before hand. We are prepared for callings not by knowing what they are, but by being given opportunities to master the skills required for the call. Having said that, I do recall one time that I knew the call before it came. I was out of town and the bishop called me on my cell. We were good friends so it was no surprise to get a call from him. This time, however, as I saw his name on my call display I knew what was coming and I accepted it before he had time to ask. I understood later that my knowing was a comfort to him because he had wrestled over this calling. In other words, my foreknowledge was not for me but for him. Of course, it wasn't like I knew weeks in advance. 

That happened to me once. I was elders quorum secretary, and the stake executive secretary called and said the stake president wanted to talk to me. I knew immediately that I was going to be called as elders quorum president. When I hung up the phone, my wife asked me who it was. When I told her, she said, "You're going to get called as elders quorum president." And I was.

[Garden Girl]

7 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

Mine said I would be called to the highest quorums of the church to devise ways and means to spread the gospel throughout all the world  I guess I blew that, huh?

Entirely possible jkw... I can relate to that.  I received my PB when I was 14 years old... there were some very specific and wonderful blessings in regard to my "mission in life."  I grew up very faithful, very active.  Later, at age 20, I slipped into inactivity because I married a wonderful but non-LDS man... (blew one blessing there)... he wanted to be doing things on our weekends free from work obligations ... so it wasn't long before I became fully inactive.  Years went by, and the promised blessings were essentially lost.  The Spirit continued to tug at me... When 30+ years later I reactivated, I had given up years of blessings and callings associated with my stated life's mission.  So I prayed that my PB would be restored to the extent possible... and these past 20 years since reactivating, my callings have all been supportive of that mission... I served a two-year Stake mission... and currently serve for the third time in a RS presidency... And there have been other callings... but several given up because of my choices...

GG