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1 hour ago, consiglieri said:

I think the scriptures support you in this.

Section 130 describes the celestial kingdom where God dwells, and further says that those who enter the celestial kingdom will receive a white stone.

But what is made known through the white stone?

Here is the passage:

 

If the white stone given to those who enter the celestial kingdom makes known things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms, what are we left to presume?

I agree (and quoted this scripture upthread).
Celestial is just the jumping off point for higher glories and kingdoms.  Progression never ends.

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49 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

I don't see what is so complicated about understanding these exclusivity statement from the Father as pertaining to our creation and not to every creation everywhere.

The Eloheim (Council of the Gods) is a quorum.
And just as your ward has an Elders quorum and my ward has an Elder's quorum, why should there not be many Quorums of Gods in existence?  Even if we only have to do with one group.

Another quorum of Elohim is not an higher kingdom. What I was trying to illustrate is that within the kingdom of Elohim can be "a higher kingdom" or a higher governing body. 

Let's look at the Hebrew to teach us. God is Elohim. Jesus is Elohim per Hebrews 1:8 and Psalms. Even the Hebrews are called Elohim in Deut and Psalms 82. But are the Hebrews called YHWH? So YHWH is Elohim but not all Elohim are YHWH - at least as far as we are shown in scripture. Now Jesus is YHWH Elohim with the Father according to the Hebrew text, but He is not the Most High El. He is El Shaddai[another discussion]. So we see a distinction even there inside the Godhead. Yet they are all in the kingdom of Elohim with The Father and Christ at the head. Perhaps that makes more sense to you now? In other words I view it as a "kingdom" within the kingdom of Elohim. Then like I said there are the 144,000 - the last of which are sealed up at the end of the sixth seal, and the 144,000 with their father's name on their foreheads. Can there be multiple quorums of 144,000? Yes, but are they higher kingdoms than Elohim? Being that they in my view would all be Elohim, no, at least in that sense. Well, anyway, that is the best I can describe my interpretation of those verses. There are titles or offices within the kingdom of Elohim with a greater weight of glory, but there is no scriptural kingdom above the Most High...

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On 5/11/2016 at 11:07 AM, consiglieri said:

I think the scriptures support you in this.

Section 130 describes the celestial kingdom where God dwells, and further says that those who enter the celestial kingdom will receive a white stone.

But what is made known through the white stone?

Here is the passage:

 

If the white stone given to those who enter the celestial kingdom makes known things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms, what are we left to presume?

Read that passage again while thinking of the white stone as a crystal display screen, liquid crystal maybe,  and the new name/key word as the password for the dang thing. 

That's how I think about it.

Basically it's a tool we'll use to receive more intelligence, more intelligence about things relative to higher kingdoms of glory, with the glory of God being the intelligence God has and has access to.

We're not the kind of Christians who think material things are bad and that we should want only immaterial things, including being immaterial people.  I'm ready for my new Galaxy device, or maybe I should call it my Universe device.   And without worrying about paying for the minutes!

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I still think exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom is the highest we can do and what our increase is, is in worlds we create and spirit children we have and then our spirit children will progress and be exalted themselves, like us, and our posterity and glory will go on and increase forever. It's all about family and relationships.

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15 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

I still think exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom is the highest we can do and what our increase is, is in worlds we create and spirit children we have and then our spirit children will progress and be exalted themselves, like us, and our posterity and glory will go on and increase forever. It's all about family and relationships.

Lot's of people agree with you.
I am not one of them.

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11 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

I still think exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom is the highest we can do and what our increase is, is in worlds we create and spirit children we have and then our spirit children will progress and be exalted themselves, like us, and our posterity and glory will go on and increase forever. It's all about family and relationships.

I agree with this in part, but probably don't think about it the way you do. Does Christ increase? I believe He does - He inherits the kingdoms of the Father. Does He have spirit children? I believe He does. Everyone who is reborn in Him becomes His spirit child? How does this continue on?

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

My personal belief tho is that the scriptures do not show any evidence of the Father progressing. He does receive glory, but that is because others glorify Him. As Jesus indicated one cannot really glorify oneself. Glory comes from others.

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23 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

This is how Jesus would look if he were alive today and a member of the Q15.

jesusbeard.jpg

My cousin Dave is Jesus,  This looks just like him!! 

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39 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Well I mean, if Jesus the to show up in General Conference wouldn't he be wearing a suit and have no facial hair and short hair like the rest of the Apostles?

Not necessarily.  If that were the case that is how he would have appeared to Joseph in the Sacred Grove, the Kirtland Temple, etc.
 

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33 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Well I mean, if Jesus the to show up in General Conference wouldn't he be wearing a suit and have no facial hair and short hair like the rest of the Apostles?

No, I don't think so.  There is no good reason to think he should wear the same kind of clothing they do, or that he should have short hair, or no facial hair.

And I would be tickled pink if he showed up wearing overalls and a straw hat and a pitch fork when he comes back for the "harvest" to separate the wheat from the tares.

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1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Not necessarily.  If that were the case that is how he would have appeared to Joseph in the Sacred Grove, the Kirtland Temple, etc.
 

But did God and Jesus look exactly identical to Joseph Smith in the sacred grove is what I'm wondering. In all artists depictions they are shown to look exactly alike standing next to each other in the pictures.

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21 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I agree with this in part, but probably don't think about it the way you do. Does Christ increase? I believe He does - He inherits the kingdoms of the Father. Does He have spirit children? I believe He does. Everyone who is reborn in Him becomes His spirit child? How does this continue on?

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

My personal belief tho is that the scriptures do not show any evidence of the Father progressing. He does receive glory, but that is because others glorify Him. As Jesus indicated one cannot really glorify oneself. Glory comes from others.

Orson Pratt asks will Adam or any God continue to make worlds, people them, taste of death to redeem them? Answer [by Brigham Young]: I have no doubt but it is his privilege but whether He will do it is a question in my mind. How then can his seed increase to all eternity? Through the increase of his posterity. Many other remarks were made by the President.
--May 6, 1855, Waiting for World's End: The Diaries of Wilford Woodruff, ed. by Susan Staker, Salt Lake City: Signature Books 1993, pg. 167.

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37 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Orson Pratt asks will Adam or any God continue to make worlds, people them, taste of death to redeem them? Answer [by Brigham Young]: I have no doubt but it is his privilege but whether He will do it is a question in my mind. How then can his seed increase to all eternity? Through the increase of his posterity. Many other remarks were made by the President.
--May 6, 1855, Waiting for World's End: The Diaries of Wilford Woodruff, ed. by Susan Staker, Salt Lake City: Signature Books 1993, pg. 167.

I guess that depends on how you interpret "increase of posterity." I believe certain "kingdoms" or offices are "fixed" in number - at least in these "higher" kingdoms we are speaking about. In other words there will only be one Son or Savior for each particular world. Jesus will not return to redeem other worlds[He is prophecied not to return to corruption], but will be called the Father. He will no longer be "the Son." This is one reason why the doctrine of the trinity is incorrect. Nor do I accept the teaching that this world was "the special" world out of all the worlds that have been and will be created where our Savior atoned for all that have lived and will live in them. In other words each will have its own unique Savior - although they may be named Jesus too according to the will of the Father. By the same token the number of the "prophets" appears to be fixed at 144,000. So each world will have at least 144,000 "prophets" who are foreordained because of their exceeding faith. Although there seems to be multiple quorums, I don't know how many will speak as "prophets." Some are designated to live the word as heads of families, etc, so may not have their words recorded.

So as I see it, the number of spirits as the Father will increase, but I am unsure as to whether this is one at a time or is an exponential increase. In Isa 42 He promises to give His glory only to His servant, but I don't think the revelations of Jesus are done. I am unsure how many worlds will follow this one...I know there will be at least one, but am unsure what future prophecy may reveal on this issue. 

Edited by RevTestament
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16 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

But did God and Jesus look exactly identical to Joseph Smith in the sacred grove is what I'm wondering. In all artists depictions they are shown to look exactly alike standing next to each other in the pictures.

I'm thinking Jesus looked like his biological Father about as much as most men look like their own biological fathers. Not identical, necessarily,  but usually there is a striking resemblance. 

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23 hours ago, RevTestament said:

My personal belief tho is that the scriptures do not show any evidence of the Father progressing. He does receive glory, but that is because others glorify Him. As Jesus indicated one cannot really glorify oneself. Glory comes from others.

I think most people who think God,  our Father, does "progress" is by increasing in glory, which as you say is by others giving glory to him. 

So I think you and JLHPROF think the same thing on this issue.

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16 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I think most people who think God,  our Father, does "progress" is by increasing in glory, which as you say is by others giving glory to him.

So I think you and JLHPROF think the same thing on this issue.

No, I think God actually progresses, not just in glory and dominion, but in power and intelligence.

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4 hours ago, Ahab said:

I'm thinking Jesus looked like his biological Father about as much as most men look like their own biological fathers. Not identical, necessarily,  but usually there is a striking resemblance. 

I think that the theory is that there is a "perfect" human body and all perfect human bodies are identical- because "perfection" means that even if your nose is a little farther from your mouth than it "should be" that would be imperfect, or high cheek bones or low cheek bones etc.  Such standards make little sense to me personally, so I don't know that I buy that theory.  Of course that raises the question of racial differences in exalted beings which would probably conflict with the theory of that kind of "perfection" which in my opinion again comes out of Greek philosophy- where "perfect" means "complete".

 It's kind of in the vein of images of Christ being white, regardless of clearly being Semitic.

But to me it all comes down to literalism again vs what you would call common sense.  I actually agree a lot with you of late on those points of common sense.

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2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

 It's kind of in the vein of images of Christ being white, regardless of clearly being Semitic.

It would be a matter of genetics would it not?

And we do have this.

1 Nephi 11:13 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city of Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white.
 
Why would "Semitic" automatically mean NON-white?
 
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17 hours ago, Vance said:

It would be a matter of genetics would it not?

And we do have this.

1 Nephi 11:13 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city of Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white.
 
Why would "Semitic" automatically mean NON-white?
 

The word white refers to her spiritual purity rather than the color or tone of her skin.

It is the word fair that refers to the color or tone of her skin.

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On 5/14/2016 at 8:51 AM, JLHPROF said:

No, I think God actually progresses, not just in glory and dominion, but in power and intelligence.

The glory of God is intelligence and intelligence is a combination of truth and light, with truth being a knowledge of things as they are or were or will be.  Light I think is the ability to see truth.  So yes the glory/intelligence of God does progress or increase as God's family/children progress and he keeps up with what is going on in the lives of each of his children, and wives too for that matter. 

Power is the ability to do work or get something done and I can see how that would increase as there are more and more people to do God's work as he does.

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I think the Mormon concept of God is ever changing.  It started with Joseph Smith who started as a trinitarian, then moved onto the Lectures on Faith and ended up with King Follet.  Hinckley then tried to bring it back to more of a mainstream Christian view when he essentially denied King Follet and Lorenzo Snow's couplet.

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