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The 'light Of Christ' And The Three Omnis


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JLHPROF, on 31 Dec 2014 - 6:57 PM, said:snapback.png

No, people are mistaken in their reading of the word "gave".  As I said, I "gave" my son life, but really it was natural law that gave him life.

God gave us agency.  Absolutely he did.  But HOW did he give it to us?  By creating us creatures that have it as a natural part of our existence.

 

I disagree completely.

 

The volition of the creature is free; this is a law of their existence, and the Lord cannot violate his own law; were he to do that, he would cease to be God. He has placed life and death before his children, and it is for them to choose. If they choose life, they receive the blessings of life; if they chose death, they must abide the penalty. This is a law which has always existed from all eternity, and will continue to exist throughout all the eternities to come.

--Brigham Young

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The volition of the creature is free; this is a law of their existence, and the Lord cannot violate his own law; were he to do that, he would cease to be God. He has placed life and death before his children, and it is for them to choose. If they choose life, they receive the blessings of life; if they chose death, they must abide the penalty. This is a law which has always existed from all eternity, and will continue to exist throughout all the eternities to come.

--Brigham Young

That does not support your theory, it says that the law is that people are free, acknowledges that the law is God's law (in other words, he gave agency) and that he will not violate it.

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That does not support your theory, it says that the law is that people are free, acknowledges that the law is God's law (in other words, he gave agency) and that he will not violate it.

 

No, it says it is a law of their very existence.

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No, it says it is a law of their very existence.

Yes, and the next phrase makes it clear that this law is God's law for his creation.

Even if this statement did say what you want it to say (which I do not concede) I would still take God speaking directly in scripture over a quote from Brigham Young.

Edited by The Nehor
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No, it says it is a law of their very existence.

In the Brigham Young quote, “volition” is the experience or attribute of willing something; “agency” is the capacity to act on that will. Volition is not given of God, but agency is.

Brigham Young is saying that the law of our existence is our will, and that God gave us the agency to act on that will to define our existence. “All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.” This means the only way we can exist is for God to place us (intelligence) in a sphere in which we can act for ourselves—we did not have the capacity to place ourselves (i.e. agency) to do that. In this way, our existence (kingdom) matches up with our will (volition) according to the law we choose to follow (agency).

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Agency is the ability to act and operate according to ones own will. As we sin, we lose that gift of agency one degree at a time until it is possible to lose it or give it up entirely. At that point the devil seals you his and you only act then according to the devils will and not your own. This is what is meant by the chains of hell.

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Has nothing to do with arrogance. It has to do with just applying some logic and principle. God has power over his creations and within his jurisdiction- whatever that may be. But "power" itself can cover so many things. Can God make everything disappear and cease to exist? No, he cant. Lets go the other way- can God make an infinite amount of matter appear out of nothing? No, he cant do that either. Can God make the devil be good? No, he cant do that either. So, when we talk "power" we are speaking of some other thing. God has the power to do all things "within" his power, not that he can do "anything".

 

 

If God is really there how can you know or not know what God can do unless he tells you directly in person? 

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Yep that's not a bad way of saying it.

God's intelligence organizes space through the light of Christ- the LOC is the same as God's intelligence. God knows all there is to know- nothing else "exists" because we measure existence by what is known.

We can't know what we don't know. We can't know logical contradictions like "making a rock so big God can't lift it"- those are semantic games.

The entire Creedal concepts of omnipotence and omnipresence make no sense logically- they are word games only.

God knows all that there is to know through his intelligence- ie the light of Christ, and by knowing it, he can "be" there. He knows all that "is happening"- every thought, every event- in the universe and is "there" through his intelligence as we can imagine we can "be" at a news event by watching it on the internet. Yet of course he knows all the thoughts of each participant, and can see all angles at once, as we could not via a camera, etc.

So the whole controversy about omnipotence etc is a sham. Word games.

 

Really?  Like I asked Rob how do you or anyone really know these things? Has God met with you and explained it all?  We should I trust your conclusions?

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Really?  Like I asked Rob how do you or anyone really know these things? Has God met with you and explained it all?  We should I trust your conclusions?

This is called an "opinion".

 

It is to be ignored,  accepted, rejected, or discussed further at your option.

 

While you are asking, how do YOU know your opinions are right?  Why should I trust your conclusions?

 

We didn't get very far, did we?

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Heavenly Father is not omniscient because he is still growing in knowledge and continues to progress.

At this point we generally reject the idea that God is growing in knowledge, although people like Brigham Young and John Taylor supported it back in the day.

 

 

 

I'm interested in the LDS concept of the "Light of Christ". Would you say any of the "omnis" apply to the Light of Christ?

From what I understand about the Light of Christ, I think it is Omnipresent, because it can dwell in anyone at any place at any time. I'm not sure about the other two, though.

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