TheSkepticChristian Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) Our church likes to get involved in political issues like gay marriage, medical marijuana, and religious freedom. Will our church (like the Catholic church) get involved in this issue. "Food scarcity caused by climate change could cause 500,000 deaths by 2050, study suggests" http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(15)01156-3/abstract Even if it is uncertain, even if it only has a 25% chance of happening, we still have to take the threat seriously. Will our church stay out of politics on this big issue? My goodness if this happens, where is our church now? "Earth is warming 50x faster than when it comes out of an ice age" "Rapid climate changes more deadly than asteroid impacts in Earth’s past" Edited March 4, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
ksfisher Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 Here are two links to information as to what the church is doing to help with world hunger https://www.lds.org/topics/humanitarian-service?lang=eng https://providentliving.lds.org/?lang=eng Moses 2:28 also teaches us that God gave stewardship over the earth to Adam: And I, God, blessed them, and said unto them: Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. With that stewardship comes an accountability for the discharge of that stewardship. While the church may not be issuing statement like the Catholic Church is doing, the gospel teaches us that we are to be wise stewards over the earth that Christ has created for us. 2
Storm Rider Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 Skeptic, it seems like the Church acts in the here and now when it speaks out on issues. It has seldom spoke to temporal issues that may or may not happen forty years in the future. I don't see why we should take the threat seriously. Humans are adaptive. The earth's climate has never been static and has been a constant process of transition from one phase to another from the beginning. We will either adapt to climate changes or we will join countless species that have died out in the past. Any attempt to force a static climate could easily result in catastrophes of unknown proportions. In a parallel thought, I wish the Prophet would speak to the world at large at GC. He would appreciate hearing him provide spiritual counsel to all humans regardless of where they might live. He is not just the prophet of the Church, but the prophet for the entire world. 2
ksfisher Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 6 minutes ago, Storm Rider said: In a parallel thought, I wish the Prophet would speak to the world at large at GC. He would appreciate hearing him provide spiritual counsel to all humans regardless of where they might live. He is not just the prophet of the Church, but the prophet for the entire world. I think the prophets tend to speak to the church at general conference because it is the general conference of the church. Here are a couple of links to spiritual counsel that has been given to the entire world: https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/ensign/2000/04/the-living-christ-the-testimony-of-the-apostles-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints.p1?lang=eng 1
TheSkepticChristian Posted March 4, 2016 Author Posted March 4, 2016 12 minutes ago, Storm Rider said: I don't see why we should take the threat seriously. Humans are adaptive. The earth's climate has never been static and has been a constant process of transition from one phase to another from the beginning. Please don't talk to me like that, I am not ignorant on this subject. Humans have never experienced a rapid climate change, never. Earth is warming 50x faster than when it comes out of an ice age. That rapid climate destabilization is what has climate scientists worried.
Robert F. Smith Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Our church likes to get involved in political issues like gay marriage, medical marijuana, and religious freedom. Will our church (like the Catholic church) get involved in this issue. "Food scarcity caused by climate change could cause 500,000 deaths by 2050, study suggests" ........................................................................... It is already too late to do anything substantial about human-caused climate change. The catastrophe which is coming like a runaway freight train cannot be stopped. We can move people off of South Pacific islands which are already being affected by storm surges. We can plan for the abandonment of large cities like Miami and New York City, and of countries such as Holland and Bangladesh, but it is more likely that we will wait until many deaths have occurred before taking remedial action. Military and civil conflict will come upon many parts of the world. There is only so much that a small organization like the LDS Church can do. 3
The Nehor Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 How is this a "Christian" issue? Seems like an everybody issue. I would love if the prophet could prophesy about climate change but that means God has to authorize it. I am convinced we are altering climate on a large-scale. Stopping or even slowing it at this point is a pipe dream. There is no political will to do it and many industrial groups have hired faux "climate scientists" to maintain the idea that it is an unsettled question to kill any action.
Sleeper Cell Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 2 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Our church likes to get involved in political issues like gay marriage, medical marijuana, and religious freedom. Religious freedom is a mere “political issue?” 1
TheSkepticChristian Posted March 4, 2016 Author Posted March 4, 2016 6 minutes ago, Sleeper Cell said: Religious freedom is a mere “political issue?” Tell me, why did our church oppose the LGBT anti-discrimination law?
mfbukowski Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 49 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: It is already too late to do anything substantial about human-caused climate change. The catastrophe which is coming like a runaway freight train cannot be stopped. We can move people off of South Pacific islands which are already being affected by storm surges. We can plan for the abandonment of large cities like Miami and New York City, and of countries such as Holland and Bangladesh, but it is more likely that we will wait until many deaths have occurred before taking remedial action. Military and civil conflict will come upon many parts of the world. There is only so much that a small organization like the LDS Church can do. Agreed. At this point the question of whether or not the changes are caused by humans almost become irrelevant. All we can do is hang on for the bumpy ride ahead. But humanity is infinitely adaptable. We build our own environments, our own "worlds without end". It is impossible to predict how we will deal with it, but we WILL deal with it. 2
Sleeper Cell Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 14 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Tell me, why did our church oppose the LGBT anti-discrimination law? Even if I agreed that the church’s opposition to the LGBT anti-discrimination law was “political,” how would that make “religious freedom” merely “political?” 1
TheSkepticChristian Posted March 4, 2016 Author Posted March 4, 2016 7 minutes ago, Sleeper Cell said: Even if I agreed that the church’s opposition to the LGBT anti-discrimination law was “political,” how would that make “religious freedom” merely “political?” You will know the answer when you answer my question
ksfisher Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 32 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Tell me, why did our church oppose the LGBT anti-discrimination law? Are you referring to this one that passed with the church's support? Utah Passes Mormon-Backed LGBT-Related Anti-Discrimination Bill http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/12/utah-anti-discrimination-bill_n_6854624.html 3
Kemara Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) Skeptic, why is climate change and food scarcity a Christian issue? Why are you leaving out your hero's, the atheists and agnostics, and every other non-Christian? The title of your thread implies that the Church has never got involved in a big Christian issue. I believe that it is involved in the biggest most important Christian issue of them all, how do you justify your position? Food scarcity is a man-made issue. The ability to feed the entire planet, and then some, has existed for quite some time now. Climate change need not have any impact whatsoever on food availability. Edited March 4, 2016 by Kemara 2
TheSkepticChristian Posted March 4, 2016 Author Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Kemara said: Skeptic, why is climate change and food scarcity a Christian issue? I thought helping others was Christian. Even agnostics can be Christians. 8 minutes ago, Kemara said: Food scarcity is a man-made issue. The ability to feed the entire planet, and then some, has existed for quite some time now. Climate change need not have any impact whatsoever of food availability. It will make food scarcity worst, read the scientific papers, not the blogs. and again, humans have never experienced a rapid global climate change warming before. Edited March 4, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
cinepro Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 3 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Our church likes to get involved in political issues like gay marriage, medical marijuana, and religious freedom. Will our church (like the Catholic church) get involved in this issue. "Food scarcity caused by climate change could cause 500,000 deaths by 2050, study suggests" http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(15)01156-3/abstract Even if it is uncertain, even if it only has a 25% chance of happening, we still have to take the threat seriously. Will our church stay out of politics on this big issue? My goodness if this happens, where is our church now? "Earth is warming 50x faster than when it comes out of an ice age" "Rapid climate changes more deadly than asteroid impacts in Earth’s past" In the 1970s, there were huge problems with limited resources and overpopulation. Thankfully, LDS took action and produced a documentary that changed the world and got us back on course. Perhaps we need another voice of warning to the world...? 1
Storm Rider Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 4 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Please don't talk to me like that, I am not ignorant on this subject. Humans have never experienced a rapid climate change, never. Earth is warming 50x faster than when it comes out of an ice age. That rapid climate destabilization is what has climate scientists worried. Skeptic, I apologize if I offended you, but I did not intend to talk to you in any specific way. What I did say is accurate and correct; do you disagree with what I said? If so, in what way do you disagree. I still rest on my comments and they remain accurate regardless of how fast the change occurs.
Popular Post Kemara Posted March 4, 2016 Popular Post Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Even agnostics can be Christians. It will take me quite some time to get over that statement. 1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said: It will make food scarcity worst, read the scientific papers, not the blogs. Please address what I actually wrote not what you are pretending I wrote, don't avoid the issue. Again - the ability to feed the entire planet, and even produce an excess, has existed for quite some time. Climate change need not have any impact whatsoever on food availability. You need to read scientific papers that are up to date with, and discuss, these advanced food producing technologies and not papers that completely ignore this aspect of science. For example: Matichenkov, V.V, Bocharnikova E. (2013) New approaches in agricultural engineering for creation of highly productive, organic and highly profitable greenhouses. To summarise this paper - 600 tons of fresh fruit and vegetables and 200 tons of meat and fish products from an area equivalent in size to 1 hectare. 100% self sufficient in energy and water. 90% self sufficient in nutrient inputs. After initial capital outlay to construct the growing facility, the food can be produced significantly cheaper than conventional farming systems. On average a conventional farming system will produce 30 tons of tomatoes per ha. A standard greenhouse or indoor growing system, such as hydroponics or geothermal, will produce 120 tons per ha. The most advanced indoor growing systems will produce 800 tons per ha, a 2566% increase over the conventional farming system and a 566% increase over the standard indoor growing system. Since the advanced indoor growing systems are...well...you know....indoors, and in a climate controlled environment, how will global warming affect this operation. Like I said, climate change need not have any impact whatsoever on food availability. You are simply too far behind the latest scientific advancements in food production/security to comment on the matter in the manner that you do. 1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said: and again, humans have never experienced a rapid global climate change warming before. What on earth does this statement have to do with my post? Edited March 4, 2016 by Kemara 5
UtahTexan Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Our church likes to get involved in political issues like gay marriage, medical marijuana, and religious freedom. Will our church (like the Catholic church) get involved in this issue. "Food scarcity caused by climate change could cause 500,000 deaths by 2050, study suggests" http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(15)01156-3/abstract Even if it is uncertain, even if it only has a 25% chance of happening, we still have to take the threat seriously. Will our church stay out of politics on this big issue? My goodness if this happens, where is our church now? "Earth is warming 50x faster than when it comes out of an ice age" "Rapid climate changes more deadly than asteroid impacts in Earth’s past" First, I am not sure the Church "likes" to get involved. I believe the Church feels a responsibility, at times, to do so. Second, I believe the Catholic Church got involved only because of this particular Pope, who is fairly liberal, got involved. Many within the Catholic are not happy with the political meddling of this particular Pope. Third, I am not convinced ether way about anything to do with the science here. I recall in the 70s that the winters were so bad that Yankees moved by the thousands to Texas. We heard all about a new ice age was coming. Then, in the 80s, the heat was so bad that people were dying. Records for heat were set in the 80s in Texas and the South that have not yet been broken, even with global warming. So....I see both arguments and neither side has convinced me. But, as some have suggested, whatever is happening, IS happening. I suspect that, if the Lord leads the Church to do something, the Church will do something. Edited March 4, 2016 by CountryBoy 3
Raingirl Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 12 minutes ago, SpeakTheTruth said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tIQHvNhFlg What Mormons Actually Believe use your own common sense do these people believe what the bible teaches? This is simply a warning to anyone in the Mormon religion, according to the Bible, you would not enter heaven when you die. Repent to Jesus, turn from your sinful acts. Time is so short now a days. Teaching that God used to be a man? do you people actually believe what your saying? Galatians 1:8-9 But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that person be condemned! Someone needs to get a life. 3
Kemara Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 27 minutes ago, SpeakTheTruth said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tIQHvNhFlg What Mormons Actually Believe use your own common sense do these people believe what the bible teaches? This is simply a warning to anyone in the Mormon religion, according to the Bible, you would not enter heaven when you die. Repent to Jesus, turn from your sinful acts. Time is so short now a days. Teaching that God used to be a man? do you people actually believe what your saying? Galatians 1:8-9 But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that person be condemned! Then you have just condemned yourself. 1
UtahTexan Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 28 minutes ago, SpeakTheTruth said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tIQHvNhFlg What Mormons Actually Believe use your own common sense do these people believe what the bible teaches? This is simply a warning to anyone in the Mormon religion, according to the Bible, you would not enter heaven when you die. Repent to Jesus, turn from your sinful acts. Time is so short now a days. Teaching that God used to be a man? do you people actually believe what your saying? Galatians 1:8-9 But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that person be condemned! Do you have a point? Or is this just another "Christian" Drive-by? 1
carbon dioxide Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 2 hours ago, SpeakTheTruth said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tIQHvNhFlg What Mormons Actually Believe use your own common sense do these people believe what the bible teaches? This is simply a warning to anyone in the Mormon religion, according to the Bible, you would not enter heaven when you die. Repent to Jesus, turn from your sinful acts. Time is so short now a days. Teaching that God used to be a man? do you people actually believe what your saying? Galatians 1:8-9 But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that person be condemned! Don't you realize that we have all heard these petty arguments before and they do not work? 1
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