Reaching out to our Youth in Post-Policy Mormonism

[salgare]

19 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

How was the policy supposed to help them? The policy does not address them. They are two separate groups. Teens with same sex attraction and children of same sex marriages are not the same!e group.

A = children effected by policy

B = gender challenged youth

C = ward members that are neither A or B.

D = anti-lgbt culture

D is reentrenched via the policy

C discusses and supports the "revelation" of D

B overhears and experiences the effect of D, with depression following

yes A is out of picture but potentially picks up emotional baggage over the next 18 years

So your are right, two birds with one stone, as it were.

Edited January 29, 2016 by salgare

[VideoGameJunkie]

22 minutes ago, smac97 said:

"Dozens?"  CFR.

Also, where do you get the idea that anyone is suggesting we "slide youth LGBT suicides under the rug?"  And do you really think such accusations are helpful (or even accurate)?

Thanks,

-Smac

The Mama Dragons said like 34 youth have committed suicide since the policy came out. 34 is a few dozen. And all suicides are usually swept under the rug, even by police so mormons aren't the only ones who do it. Do you really think the church would come out and say our LGBT mormons are doing suicide? 

[Calm]

Quote

And all suicides are usually swept under the rug

CFR

I have known a number of cases of suicide.  None of them were swept under the rug.  Some were talked about at their funerals, ward meetings were held, others were in the papers.

[Johnnie Cake]

Wow so much love and compassion, unbelievable 

[The Nehor]

Just now, Johnnie Cake said:

Wow so much love and compassion, unbelievable 

I think you are abusing sarcasm at this point.

[Johnnie Cake]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I think you are abusing sarcasm at this point.

Sarcasm?  I was complementing the posters in this thread for all of their love and compassion unless you don't feel they're deserving Nehor

Edited January 29, 2016 by Johnnie Cake

[The Nehor]

Just now, Johnnie Cake said:

Sarcasm?  I was complementing the posters in this thread for all of their love and compassion 

I am seething with hatred and anger. Did you miss my contributions?

[Calm]

From last year:

http://virtuoussociety.com/2015/01/26/re-examining-gay-mormon-youth-and-suicide-what-does-the-data-say/

[Johnnie Cake]

4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I am seething with hatred and anger. Did you miss my contributions?

I've never faulted you for being you Nehor...it's what your good at...you make this board fun

 

shhhh...don't tell anyone but I'm your #1 fan

Edited January 29, 2016 by Johnnie Cake

[VideoGameJunkie]

14 minutes ago, Calm said:

CFR

I have known a number of cases of suicide.  None of them were swept under the rug.  Some were talked about at their funerals, ward meetings were held, others were in the papers.

I worked as a temple security officer for a couple months and the other officer said a lot of times people will end their lives on temple grounds or even in the temple so they feel they can go out in a house of God or near a house of God. I don't see deseret news covering the deaths at the temple.

[Johnnie Cake]

7 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

I worked as a temple security officer for a couple months and the other officer said a lot of times people will end their lives on temple grounds or even in the temple so they feel they can go out in a house of God or near a house of God. I don't see deseret news covering the deaths at the temple.

While I am aware of at least 1 suicide at the Las Vegas temple and at afew chapels. It's pure speculation on the part of your friend to know what motivated these people to take their lives at those locations. 

[Damien the Leper]

If the death toll is true, then my heart is broken. Not because of the church policy. I get it.

Isaiah 1 should be a reminder to us all of our short comings but also a reminder to us of our call by God into covenant, kingdom and justice.

We must be aware of the effects that some things have on impressionable people. Be diligent in expanding understanding. Do not place blame but draw ourselves into God's Shalom and experience in great magnitude his unconditional chesed.

 

Edited January 29, 2016 by Valentinus

[Danzo]

1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

There's dozens of youth dead so there has to be a reason why. You can't just slide youth LGBT suicides under the rug and not ask the whys. Dozens are now dead and I want to know why and how it could have been prevented in the first place.

That's the issue, these dozens of dead youth seem to, for some reason,  To have escaped the notice of the government. I am wondering why no one reported all these people dying.

[Danzo]

55 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

The Mama Dragons said like 34 youth have committed suicide since the policy came out. 34 is a few dozen. And all suicides are usually swept under the rug, even by police so mormons aren't the only ones who do it. Do you really think the church would come out and say our LGBT mormons are doing suicide? 

How come her data is so much higher than the government's data?

[Calm]

1 minute ago, Danzo said:

How come her data is so much higher than the government's data?

Do you have government data for this time period?

[rockpond]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

1. Bill's post is rather facile.  But it's about the most substantive critique I've seen.  Beggars can't be choosers, I suppose...

2. I have a hard time accepting that you haven't "seen much inflammatory rhetoric."  But I'll leave it at that.  As far as the "those of us" you reference here, and those people being "allies" with "LDS LGBT youth," against whom/what are you allied?  The Brethren?

Thanks,

-Smac

1.  Feel free to publish a response to Bill to point out whatever complexities you think he's missed. 

2.  You might want to read a bit on what it means to be an LGBT ally... It's not about being against someone.  Here's an easy starting point: http://www.glaad.org/resources/ally/2

[smac97]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Do you have government data for this time period?

The Trib is reporting on this:

Quote

From the policy's onset through the end of 2015, Montgomery, a leader of the Mama Dragons support group for the families of gay Latter-day Saints, says she had counted 26 suicides of young LGBT Mormons in Utah — 23 males, one female and two transgender individuals — between ages 14 and 20.

She tallied another six in other states — though none of the reported deaths could be specifically tied to the policy.

Montgomery's statistics were shared at a recent meeting in Los Angeles of Affirmation, a support group for gay Mormons.

"The number of suicides reported to Wendy Montgomery is shocking," says John Gustav-Wrathall, Affirmation's newly installed president. "I've never seen anything like it in the history of my involvement with the organization."

Trouble is, the number far exceeds the suicide figures collected by the Utah Department of Health.

Preliminary figures for November and December show 10 suicides in the Beehive State for people ages 14 to 20, with two more cases "undetermined."

"We monitor the numbers [of youth suicides] very closely. We review them every month," says Teresa Brechlin, who works in the department's violence- and injury-prevention program. "If we had seen such a huge spike, we would have been investigating it."

Had there been any mention of the LDS Church's policy on gays, her department "would have noted that," Brechlin adds. "We have not seen that at all."

Thanks,

-Smac

[Danzo]

12 minutes ago, Calm said:

Do you have government data for this time period?

According to the tribune, there were only 10 suicides in November and December in Utah.

I have a hard time believing all of those were by homosexaul individuals. If half were LDS (Utah it s about half LDS) and half of them were homosexaul, then that makes her numbers off by an order of magnitude. Even if every one of these deaths were of LDS homosexauls, her numbers are over double the official numbers by the state.  I have a hard time believing that the state would have so high an error rate.  I would hope the moma dragons would share the data if only to explain why the state is missing these large numbers of dead people.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Danzo

[VideoGameJunkie]

Just now, Danzo said:

According to the tribune, there were only 10 suicides in November and December in Utah.

I have a hard time believing all of those were by homosexaul individuals. If half were LDS (Utah it s about half LDS) and half of them were homosexaul, then that makes her numbers off by an order of magnitude. Even if every one of these deaths were of LDS homosexauls, her numbers are over double the official numbers by the state.  I have a hard time believing that the state would have so high an error rate.  

I don't think the 34 number was just for Utah though.

[Calm]

34 minutes ago, smac97 said:

The Trib is reporting on this:

Thanks,

-Smac

Thank you.  Could have sworn I read that article.  Must have been another one.

add-on:  went back to your post, turns out I missed about half a page of posts, glitched to 'new posts' too far ahead of when I actually stopped reading.  Did see the title in a google search though.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Calm

[Calm]

14 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

I don't think the 34 number was just for Utah though.

She reported 28 26 LGBT for Utah, compared to the 10 (unindentified as LGBT) the Trib has reported by the government who keeps close track of teen suicides.

At this point her numbers look very dubious.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Calm

[smac97]

6 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

I don't think the 34 number was just for Utah though.

You're right: 

Quote

From the policy's onset through the end of 2015, Montgomery . . . says she had counted 26 suicides of young LGBT Mormons in Utah — 23 males, one female and two transgender individuals — between ages 14 and 20.

...

Trouble is, the number far exceeds the suicide figures collected by the Utah Department of Health.

Preliminary figures for November and December show 10 suicides in the Beehive State for people ages 14 to 20, with two more cases "undetermined."

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited January 29, 2016 by smac97

[Calm]

Quote

If half were LDS (Utah it s about half LDS) and half of them were homosexaul, then that makes her numbers off by an order of magnitude.

Half LDS seems within the realm of possibility.  Half homosexual....

I find that unlikely.  Even with the rate of LGBT youth being 3 times more to commit suicide than heterosexuals, the percentage of homosexuals in the community itself is probably around 2%.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Calm

[Calm]

Quote

Last week in Los Angeles during a conference for Affirmation, a Mormon LGBT support group, Montgomery, who is well-known in that community, reported that 32 families had contacted her directly about the deaths of a child or sibling. She said most were men (27), but three were female and two were transgender. The average age was 17. All were between the ages of 14 and 20. Montgomery said 26 deaths took place in Utah, four in Idaho and one each in Arizona and the New England area. Utah health department officials have been able to confirm 10 suicides in that age range in Utah since the start of November.

It seems highly unlikely that families would be willing to report to a total stranger on their own volition that their child or sibling killed themselves but wouldn't to the government.  Plus all deaths must be reported, teen deaths will be closely looked at and while perhaps the police or doctors might rule it as an accidental overdose or car accident, etc., it seems unlikely if the family was insistent it was suicide, even if it was only one member of it.

I wonder if she attempted to verify the reports or took it on faith those talking to her were for real.

add-on:  for some reason (first impression) the 34 and 28 stuck in my head even while I was reading 32 and 26 elsewhere.  Memory is a remarkable thing.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Calm

[Thinking]

Some of you may remember that my son has come out as gay but he wants to be active LDS. He loves the idea of having a family, but the reality of that dream is not very likely. He knows that it will be difficult to find a girl who will want to marry a gay man. Every so often he will come over to our house because he needs to talk. He has had thoughts of suicide at times and has twice had counseling to help him resolve his issues. His place in the LDS community is one of the things that causes stress. It's impossible for those of us who are straight to really understand what somebody in his situation endures. I can't imagine being told that I would never be able to have sex with a woman and that I would have to marry a man to qualify for exaltation. I worry about him every day because he has been so fragile emotionally. I am not writing this post to try to get the LDS Church to change, but just to help you understand the struggle of one gay LDS man.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Thinking