Why do preppers stockpile guns and ammo?

[smac97]

Meanwhile, we have this counsel from Elder Oaks:

Quote

LDS apostle tells Mormons: Stock up on food, not ammo
Following Faith by Peggy Fletcher Stack

Published September 17, 2012 2:29 pm

LDS apostle Dallin H. Oaks cautioned Mormons against joining or supporting "right-wing groups who mistakenly apply prophecies about the last days to promote efforts to form paramilitary or other organizations."

Such groups could "undermine the authority of public officials," Oaks said Sunday at a regional Mormon conference broadcast from the Marriott Center on Brigham Young University's Provo campus, "in the event of extraordinary emergencies or even in cases of simple disagreement with government policy."

Latter-day Saints should not "substitute [their] own organizations for the political and military authorities put in place by constitutional government and processes," the apostle said.

After all, the LDS Church's food-storage program is about amassing a year's supply of food and water, Oaks reminded the thousands watching in the giant arena, not "arms and ammunition."

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited January 8, 2016 by smac97

[JAHS]

51 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Here is an attempt to answer the age old question:

How long could the human race survive on only cannibalism?

https://what-if.xkcd.com/105/

Soylent Green anyone?

[JAHS]

1 hour ago, Senator said:

Probably because when the $#!& hits the fan, there are going to be a lot of unprepared people that will want your food, water and personal items.

If it gets to that point we are all probably doomed anyway. But for lesser disasters shouldn't we be willing to share what we have with others rather than kill them?

[smac97]

5 minutes ago, Zakuska said:

The Nauvoo legion sure stoke piled guns. And you got to love JS' pepper boxes.

It would be nice to have a good faith discussion about this topic.

Yes, it would be a very nice thing.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Zakuska]

17 minutes ago, JAHS said:

If it gets to that point we are all probably doomed anyway. But for lesser disasters shouldn't we be willing to share what we have with others rather than kill them?

I think we could use New Orleans and Katrina as a test case. People where sharing all kinds of things. Food included.  But what do you do about all the Looting and crime (rapes, kid napping etc.)  That accompany said disasters?

Police are up to their eyes in weighting tables and attending to the sick and rescuing the elderly.

Crime tends to go unabated.

Rapes, Killings Hit Katrina Refugees In New Orleans

http://rense.com/general67/rapes.htm

More Stories Emerge of Rapes in Post-Katrina Chaos

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5063796

Recalling days of despair in the Superdome

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/30/nation/la-na-0830-katrina-superdome-20100830

It's not about protecting your food... its about protecting your life as well as your loved ones from those who would take advantage of the Chaos.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Zakuska

[Bob Crockett]

31 minutes ago, Zakuska said:

It's not about protecting your food... its about protecting your life as well as your loved ones from those who would take advantage of the Chaos.

I think that as Christians we live at a higher level than this.  

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

I think that as Christians we live at a higher level than this.  

I'm not sure. The BOM seems to support that violence to protect loved ones is allowable. 

[The Nehor]

56 minutes ago, bluebell said:

That quote didn't talk about stockpiling guns at all though.  

Last line.

[Zakuska]

1 minute ago, Bob Crockett said:

I think that as Christians we live at a higher level than this.  

D&C 98 would beg to differ.

[The Nehor]

55 minutes ago, Zakuska said:

The Nauvoo legion sure stoke piled guns. And you got to love JS' pepper boxes.

And Noah was commanded to build an ark. How is your ark coming along?

Maybe requirements change as time goes on and really....what did the Nauvoo Legion accomplish in terms of protecting the Saints? Roughly nothing.

[Zakuska]

24 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm not sure. The BOM seems to support that violence to protect loved ones is allowable. 

I seem to remember reading in the D&C that protecting the lives of our families and loved ones is actually required and a man who fails to do this will be held accountable by the Lord.

Edit to add:

Yes D&C 98 outlines how we are to deal with "enemies" who continue to molest us and how after 3 warnings you are justified in taking a life if said enemy is trying to take yours. (see verse 29-33)

Edited January 8, 2016 by Zakuska

[Zakuska]

4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

And Noah was commanded to build an ark. How is your ark coming along?

Maybe requirements change as time goes on and really....what did the Nauvoo Legion accomplish in terms of protecting the Saints? Roughly nothing.

The legion was called up again in Utah when Bucanan made his blunder.

Rather than engaging the enemy directly, Mormon strategy was one of hindering and weakening them. Daniel H. Wells, lieutenant-general of the Nauvoo Legion, instructed Major Joseph Taylor:

On ascertaining the locality or route of the troops, proceed at once to annoy them in every possible way. Use every exertion to stampede their animals and set fire to their trains. Burn the whole country before them and on their flanks. Keep them from sleeping, by night surprises; blockade the road by felling trees or destroying the river fords where you can. Watch for opportunities to set fire to the grass on their windward, so as, if possible, to envelop their trains. Leave no grass before them that can be burned. Keep your men concealed as much as possible, and guard against surprise.^[7]

The Mormons blocked the army's entrance into the Salt Lake Valley, and weakened the U.S. Army by hindering them from receiving provisions.^[8]

The confrontation between the Mormon militia, called the Nauvoo Legion, and the U.S. Army involved some destruction of property and a few brief skirmishes in what is today southwestern Wyoming, but no battles occurred between the contending military forces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_War

Edited January 8, 2016 by Zakuska

[smac97]

2 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

I think that as Christians we live at a higher level than this.  

Could you clarify what you mean by this?  Are you saying Christians are obligated to not protect their lives and those of their loved ones?  Or to not have arms/ammunition for purposes of self-defense?

I see the wisdom in counseling the Saints to not join paramilitary groups, and to not stockpile weapons/ammunition.  But I think those are better characterized and overzealous manifestations of an otherwise allowed and reasonable activity (that is, reasonable ownership of weapons and ammunition for sport, hunting, and/or personal protection).

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the subject.

Thanks,

-Smac 

[VideoGameJunkie]

In the morning of the first resurrection, people will confuse those rising from the dead as zombies. Simple mistake.

[Zakuska]

6 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

In the morning of the first resurrection, people will confuse those rising from the dead as zombies. Simple mistake.

Problem is...  when they try to shoot them they will be instantly healed.  Which will help perpetuate the rumor even more.

Or maybe it will be more like NEO and superman and the bullets will just bounce off.

[carbon dioxide]

3 hours ago, saemo said:

I can understand being prepared with food, water and personal items. But guns, ammo and even body armor? What the heck?

What is wrong with guns and ammo.  One should not go in debt for them but if one has extra money, why not buy them?  If a major disaster occurs and law and order break down, why have food and water if mobs can steal it? 

[carbon dioxide]

40 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

I think that as Christians we live at a higher level than this.  

I don't think being a Christian means that the Lord wants the wicked to walk all over us.  We should not look for a fight and we should seek peaceful solutions but sometimes one does have to fight.

[carbon dioxide]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

If it gets to that point we are all probably doomed anyway. But for lesser disasters shouldn't we be willing to share what we have with others rather than kill them?

Share if they ask and we have enough to spare but if they are coming to rob, take them down.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

From the people i know who do this in moderation-

-hunting takes both guns and ammo, and if you want to be able to hunt for a long time you need a lot of bullets and guns.

All the people I know who do this (which isn't a lot I admit) hunt now and use what they hunt for food and they enjoy hunting a lot as well as the taste of the types of meat they hunt.  I don't find this decision to be based on a power crazy fantasy so I would be careful in categorizing all people who do this in one category  Yours sound relatively comprehensive.  

The bartering idea sounds a lot better than storing gold or silver at that will be useless if times get really desparate and would only work if there is some kind of economic stablity, while bullets will be useful as long as there is hunting available (as well as protection though I would hope that community numbers of people working together would be enough to cover that need).

Edited January 8, 2016 by Calm

[Calm]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

While hunting is a valid reason to own a gun I know too many preppers who imagine they can "live off the land". If society collapses then there will be no food and the land cannot support the population without industrialized farming. You will not be able to hunt and feed your family. 

But if there is a short term local collapse, they might be useful depending on where people live.  Plus food and emergency storage is best if it is just a continuation of what one does on a daily basis as much as possible.  Storing guns and ammo doesn't mean one isn't going to be using them for anything else but a disaster.  It may mean getting ready for next hunting season or having it available for just deciding at the last minute one wants to go out target shooting.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Calm

[The Nehor]

38 minutes ago, Zakuska said:

The legion was called up again in Utah when Bucanan made his blunder.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_War

I know the Nauvoo Legion did well in the Utah War but my understanding was that it was not the same Legion with the same name built in Nauvoo.

[VideoGameJunkie]

When are we supposed to pack up and move to Missouri?

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Meanwhile, we have this counsel from Elder Oaks:

Thanks,

-Smac

I agree with his counsel..in hope that other organizations feel the same way,  In the words of John Lennon:  "Give Peace a Chance". You don't need a stockpile to defend your family..

Edited January 8, 2016 by Jeanne

[smac97]

I should clarify that I do not think Elder Oaks was counseling the Saints against gun ownership as a principle, but rather a disproportionate and dangerous form of it.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

That quote didn't talk about stockpiling guns at all though.  

Quote

 I have sometimes taught this principle by reminding that the church has counseled the storage of food and water, not the storage of arms and ammunition.

Not understanding your comment, bluebell.