Why do preppers stockpile guns and ammo?

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, Sleeper Cell said:

I consider 100-500 rounds  “moderate.”  I wouldn’t blink if I found out that my next door neighbor had 500 rounds of ammo.  (I would be far more concerned if I learned that he had stored 50 gal of gasoline in his garage).   If we’re talking .22 ammo, I would consider these amounts “minimal,” as one could easily use that much in one afternoon at a rifle range.

 To a large extent, my use of the term “moderate” is a function of things like how often someone customarily use his guns, how guns and ammo fit into his personal emergency preparedness plan, and whether he was stinting on other aspects of emergency preparedness.  In the case of the idiot referenced in the post to which I was responding  (after the earthquake, while others were going door to door checking on the well being of their neighbors, he “sat on his front porch with a shotgun pointed at us [those actually checking on the well being of their neighbors] and wouldn't move from his house for three days.”)  his having one (1) round of ammo is excessive.   And this nut job was “the president of the homeowner‘s association!“  One would have expected that the  president of the homeowner’s association, -- of all people -- would have been more concerned about helping his fellow homeowners than in protecting himself from them. 

Ammo is just one of many things that could be used for barter.   

Anyone who wants to be the president of a homeowner's association should be exiled from the community. The position almost invariably attracts grasping busybodies.

[Zakuska]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I prefer to be one of those who refuses to take up the sword against my neighbor and instead I flee to Zion for safety.

I prefer to be in the Army of Helaman, Zion wouldn't be safe without some one to take up arms against the oppresors.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Zakuska

[The Nehor]

26 minutes ago, Zakuska said:

That contradicts the very notion of "being prepared for tomorow" and having food storage to begin with.

No, it does not. Being able to help others for a time is better then nothing and there is no way we can prepare for every possible contingency. You cannot store an infinite supply of food.

[Zakuska]

4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

No, it does not. Being able to help others for a time is better then nothing and there is no way we can prepare for every possible contingency. You cannot store an infinite supply of food.

God has a Manna Machine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manna_Machine

By all accounts thats an Infinite food supply.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Zakuska

[mnn727]

On 1/8/2016 at 2:02 PM, The Nehor said:

 

Elder Oaks:

The leaders of the church have always taught that we should observe the law and we should not try to substitute our own organizations for the political and military authorities put in place by Constitutional government and processes. 

 I believe in JS's and BY's day they had a different idea than Elder Oaks is saying.

[The Nehor]

45 minutes ago, Zakuska said:

I prefer to be in the Army of Helaman, Zion wouldn't be safe without some one to take up arms against the oppresors.

Tell that to Enoch.

[bcuzbcuz]

13 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Didn't you once post in this forum that you are a pacifist and would not kill or seriously harm an attacker whose actions threatened yourself or your family with death or serious bodily harm?

You go ahead and trumpet how easily you will give up your worthless life if you like.  But in my mind, to consent to murder, even your own, is to participate in that murder.  And to refuse to defend your life is prima facie evidence of your consent.

I´m pleased you recall that I am a pacifist. But that doesn´t make my life worthless. I just know where to draw the line and do not give my life more value than a stranger/foreigner/immigrant. That you rate your life more valuable than the life of anyone else seems contrary to Christian beliefs.

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, bcuzbcuz said:

I´m pleased you recall that I am a pacifist. But that doesn´t make my life worthless. I just know where to draw the line and do not give my life more value than a stranger/foreigner/immigrant. That you rate your life more valuable than the life of anyone else seems contrary to Christian beliefs.

If you are in the world trying to make it better and help others, and the other person is in the world trying to rape, pillage, and murder, doesn't that mean your life is worth more than theirs?

Sincere question. 

[The Nehor]

6 minutes ago, bluebell said:

If you are in the world trying to make it better and help others, and the other person is in the world trying to rape, pillage, and murder, doesn't that mean your life is worth more than theirs?

Sincere question. 

Kind of but in another way the other person's life is more valuable. If you are ready for the next life it is probably better for the good person to die as the bad person still needs more work. Ammon pointed this out when Lamoni and his father had their highway road rage dispute.

[bluebell]

23 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Kind of but in another way the other person's life is more valuable. If you are ready for the next life it is probably better for the good person to die as the bad person still needs more work. Ammon pointed this out when Lamoni and his father had their highway road rage dispute.

True, that is one way for theists to look at it.  Of course, Ammon wasn't against killing people to protect property, so his views were probably more nuanced than that.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

True, that is one way for theists to look at it.  Of course, Ammon wasn't against killing people to protect property, so his views were probably more nuanced than that.

Yeah, and so are mine. I think the situation determines your response. Sometimes like Moroni you fight and sometimes like Ammon's converts you kneel before your enemy and praise God as they kill you and do not fight at all.

[Cold Steel]

On 1/8/2016 at 1:19 PM, saemo said:

I can understand being prepared with food, water and personal items. But guns, ammo and even body armor? What the heck?

The leaders of the church have always taught that we should observe the law and we should not try to substitute our own organizations for the political and military authorities put in place by Constitutional government and processes.   --Elder Dallin Oaks

Body armor is a bit much, but guns and ammo, no.

When major hurricanes like Andrew and Katrina hit, emergency services go down. If we ever get hit with an EMP event, flooding, storms or national unrest, you won't be able to count on police or other services, yet you'll be responsible for protecting yourself and your family. 

If the major jails and prisons in this country ever got into a situation where the authorities can't feed their populations, do YOU trust them not to throw open the gates and let these guys go? I don't. So is it really radical to have guns and ammo? Also, ammo like .22lr makes an excellent barter commodity (like it did in Argentina years ago, where .22 cartridges were used as change for transactions). 

If you go on YouTube, check out some of Nutnfancy's videos where he discusses such things. Perhaps we should consider what we should have in our emergency kits. (I'll start a new thread.) 

 

[saemo]

45 minutes ago, Cold Steel said:

The leaders of the church have always taught that we should observe the law and we should not try to substitute our own organizations for the political and military authorities put in place by Constitutional government and processes.   --Elder Dallin Oaks

Body armor is a bit much, but guns and ammo, no.

When major hurricanes like Andrew and Katrina hit, emergency services go down. If we ever get hit with an EMP event, flooding, storms or national unrest, you won't be able to count on police or other services, yet you'll be responsible for protecting yourself and your family. 

If the major jails and prisons in this country ever got into a situation where the authorities can't feed their populations, do YOU trust them not to throw open the gates and let these guys go? I don't. So is it really radical to have guns and ammo? Also, ammo like .22lr makes an excellent barter commodity (like it did in Argentina years ago, where .22 cartridges were used as change for transactions). 

If you go on YouTube, check out some of Nutnfancy's videos where he discusses such things. Perhaps we should consider what we should have in our emergency kits. (I'll start a new thread.) 

 

My family aren't gun people. My dad never owned a gun, neither did his dad. My dad collected small amounts of gold, with bartering in mind.

I bought a .22 Ruger when I was 18 to go target shooting with friends. I went with the same friends out to the desert where I killed a jack rabbit. I hated the feeling I had after doing that, and never did it again. I'd go out with my friends to the desert, but shoot paper plates.  We could buy an insane number of .22 rounds at Allied for a few dollars. I learned how to reload 270 with the same friends. I still have my .22 but haven't shot it in decades. I hear a box of .22 rounds costs more than I'd be willing to spend 

I don't think I could shoot let alone kill a human.  

I live 900 miles from the nearest coast. There won't be hurricanes or flooding here. During Katrina the prisoners and elderly in rest homes were left by their caretakers, to die.

My nice old Mormon neighbor of 15 years died, and now strangers are in his house.  At the end of the summer a shipping container showed up in their yard, against our fence.  It's still there, with an added security light that shines in my eyes when I'm in bed, trying to sleep. I finally figured out, they must be preppers? Now I lie awake with that light in my eyes, wondering what kind of nutjobs have moved in to my nice neighbor's house, and how much weaponry are they collecting, and would they use it on me or my neighbors.

I miss my nice old Mormon neighbor, who was very kind, smart, with a keen intelligence into his 90's and I would like the nutjobs to move out sooner than later. 

Edited January 12, 2016 by saemo

[Anijen]

All preppers do not deserve the label "nutjobs." Many non-LDS look at us as "nutjobs" because we believe and act differently from others. We have been counciled to have a food supply, that makes us preppers (one who prepares). I do not believe we are "nutjobs," in fact I believe it is wise council and even wiser to follow it.

[saemo]

1 hour ago, Anijen said:

All preppers do not deserve the label "nutjobs." Many non-LDS look at us as "nutjobs" because we believe and act differently from others. We have been counciled to have a food supply, that makes us preppers (one who prepares). I do not believe we are "nutjobs," in fact I believe it is wise council and even wiser to follow it.

If you check around at websites where people who call themselves preppers hang out. They are all doing far more than collecting food. It is how I figured out what the shipping container is for. 

Having food on hand is rather normal. As I said, my nice old neighbor was LDS and he had a storage room for food in his house. No need for a shipping container.

I'm not sorry to say, people who put a shipping container in their yard are nutjobs. Puts them into a category in my book where they might be dangerous to others, as I view vigilantes as a danger, and everything I read about shipping container preppers is that they have a vigilante mindset.

 

[bluebell]

10 hours ago, saemo said:

My family aren't gun people. My dad never owned a gun, neither did his dad. My dad collected small amounts of gold, with bartering in mind.

I bought a .22 Ruger when I was 18 to go target shooting with friends. I went with the same friends out to the desert where I killed a jack rabbit. I hated the feeling I had after doing that, and never did it again. I'd go out with my friends to the desert, but shoot paper plates.  We could buy an insane number of .22 rounds at Allied for a few dollars. I learned how to reload 270 with the same friends. I still have my .22 but haven't shot it in decades. I hear a box of .22 rounds costs more than I'd be willing to spend 

I don't think I could shoot let alone kill a human.  

I live 900 miles from the nearest coast. There won't be hurricanes or flooding here. During Katrina the prisoners and elderly in rest homes were left by their caretakers, to die.

My nice old Mormon neighbor of 15 years died, and now strangers are in his house.  At the end of the summer a shipping container showed up in their yard, against our fence.  It's still there, with an added security light that shines in my eyes when I'm in bed, trying to sleep. I finally figured out, they must be preppers? Now I lie awake with that light in my eyes, wondering what kind of nutjobs have moved in to my nice neighbor's house, and how much weaponry are they collecting, and would they use it on me or my neighbors.

I miss my nice old Mormon neighbor, who was very kind, smart, with a keen intelligence into his 90's and I would like the nutjobs to move out sooner than later. 

Do you actually know if they are preppers?  I'm just wondering because you seem to have created quite the scenario in your head (where they are the evil bad guys out to maybe kill you and your neighbors) but it sound like you haven't actually met them yet or know anything about them, other than a shipping container is in their yard.

Have you met them and just didn't mention it in the post?

 

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Anijen said:

All preppers do not deserve the label "nutjobs." Many non-LDS look at us as "nutjobs" because we believe and act differently from others. We have been counciled to have a food supply, that makes us preppers (one who prepares). I do not believe we are "nutjobs," in fact I believe it is wise council and even wiser to follow it.

Preppers go way beyond the year's supply of food.

Also if you do not want to be considered as nutjob you need to conform or just embrace the title of nutjob. I know I have.

[Cold Steel]

13 hours ago, saemo said:

I bought a .22 Ruger when I was 18 to go target shooting with friends. I went with the same friends out to the desert where I killed a jack rabbit. I hated the feeling I had after doing that, and never did it again. 

I don't think I could shoot let alone kill a human. 

The Ruger was the second handgun I ever bought. The only animal I would ever shoot would be for food. As for humans, that's another thing entirely. I know the evil people are capable of, and I could kill in defense of myself and my family (and others). My uncle killed for sport and I always resented it, though I loved him dearly. 

Quote

I live 900 miles from the nearest coast. There won't be hurricanes or flooding here. During Katrina the prisoners and elderly in rest homes were left by their caretakers, to die.

In our day it doesn't matter where one lives. You can be hit with an earthquake anywhere. We're also susceptible to various other attacks including biological attacks. We also can face a devastating economic collapse (both of which are prophesied). 

Quote

I finally figured out, they must be preppers. Now I lie awake with that light in my eyes, wondering what kind of nutjobs have moved in to my nice neighbor's house, and how much weaponry are they collecting, and would they use it on me or my neighbors?

There are good preppers and bad preppers. Just because they have weapons is little cause for concern unless they're shaving their heads and wearing swastikas. I live in a neighborhood of Democrats. You can't always choose who your neighbors are. 

[Anijen]

6 hours ago, saemo said:

I'm not sorry to say, people who put a shipping container in their yard are nutjobs.

Although I have no shipping container, it is still my opinion that to classify everyone with a shipping container as a "nutjob" is taking an absolute stand in which I would slightly disagree. I have seen a few of the prepper videos and most seem to me that the shipping container has basically replaced the bomb shelter that the government  and Life magazine popularized during the cold war. The shipping container becomes an economic place for food storage and a shelter (tornado for example). I haven't watched many and the ones I have seen usually bury the container, so, you probably have a reasonable point if he keeps it above ground next to your fence. However, I do not think all who drank that Kool-Aid are nutjobs. I know there are those who go way beyond prepping and bring it to fanatical levels (such as many militias), still in my opinion to side with a be prepared mindset is not crazy, but wise. 

I appreciate your viewpoint

Anijen

Edited January 12, 2016 by Anijen

[Anijen]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Preppers go way beyond the year's supply of food.

Also if you do not want to be considered as nutjob you need to conform or just embrace the title of nutjob. I know I have.

I didn't know there was limitation for being prepared. A years supply makes you obedient to church leaders council, but being more prepared makes you a nut job. But, I have embraced my inner nutjob, not because I am a prepper (in the non-crazy way), but because it is more fun.

I have a moderate amount of food and emergency stuff. I have never considered my guns or ammo part of my supply (I do not have many guns or that much ammo), they are something I have just grown up with. I have taken many classes to be trained and to be safe with them. I am not sure I could ever take a life if I were being threatened, I think I would probably rather die than live with the guilt of shooting someone (even if justified). Having said that, if my wife or children or another life is in imminent danger (such as a terrorist attack) I believe I would try to stop them.

[bcuzbcuz]

22 hours ago, bluebell said:

If you are in the world trying to make it better and help others, and the other person is in the world trying to rape, pillage, and murder, doesn't that mean your life is worth more than theirs?

Sincere question. 

I don't qualify as someone who gets to judge worthiness of others. I do not have access to the kind of information that can asure me that I'm better than someone else. 

[bluebell]

12 minutes ago, bcuzbcuz said:

I don't qualify as someone who gets to judge worthiness of others. I do not have access to the kind of information that can asure me that I'm better than someone else. 

So you don't know that you're a better person than someone who wants to rape, murder, and pillage?  Or that your children (or children in general, if you don't have any) lives are worth more than the life of a person who chooses to do that?

[Sleeper Cell]

1 hour ago, bcuzbcuz said:

I don't qualify as someone who gets to judge worthiness of others. I do not have access to the kind of information that can asure me that I'm better than someone else. 

Are you serious?  You actually see no moral difference between someone who is both a serial rapist and a serial murderer (the example in Bluebell’s post) and someone who has never committed these or any other crimes?  

Isn’t “judgmentalism” essentially a function of pride and self righteousness?   Who could possibly take pride in being a better person than someone who is both a serial murderer and a serial rapist?   (Talk about “damning with faint praise!”) 

[Calm]

Perhaps he is thinking we cannot judge the person as a whole at any given moment because there are alawys his future actions that will contribute to the ultimate judgement of his life.

Which in many ways is true, but we have to make choices all the time based on who people are now, so I don't see this (if I am correct in interprtation) as preventing judgment now in cases of immediate harm.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Calm

[bcuzbcuz]

6 hours ago, bluebell said:

So you don't know that you're a better person than someone who wants to rape, murder, and pillage?  Or that your children (or children in general, if you don't have any) lives are worth more than the life of a person who chooses to do that?

You repeat yourself. To clarify my opinion, people who rape, murder and pillage seldom have signs around their necks identifying them as such. I have volunteered in a prison and worked with prisoners after their release. The two who come to mind were both murderers. One killed the man who, as step-dad, had exploited and raped his 4 year old son. The birth father was given 25 years. The other, while still a teenager, killed a drug dealer in his town. He served 35 years before I met him. He told me the reason he killed the dealer was based on his communist beliefs that such people were parasites on society and did not deserve to live.

Both men were very friendly, intelligent and good company. Neither one regretted their crime. Both of these men have met some of my children.

Very few rapists look like rapists. I certainly do not agree with the current espoused political opinion that rapists come from certain countries. How does one recognize a murderer, should one meet one? Pillagers are thiefs and probably look like your next door neighbours. 

My wife and I have discussed this and are in total agreement. Should society collapse, people who show up at our door are welcome to share our food and shelter. In someways I think society has already collapsed. I work with Syrian, Turkish and Iraqi refugees three nights a week. We are trying to work out the details of how we can made our upstairs rooms available for a refugee family. 

And no, my life is not worth more than any of the above mentioned.