The Nehor Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 12 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: In a major disaster where social order has collapsed, most people will be hunting each other over animals. The worst place to be is in the cities. The riots and murders would be off the charts. Plus a lot of people would die simply as a result of medicine being disrupted. Think of how many diabetics will die if the insulin supply is disrupted? So the land would not be stripped as the population would be reduced in a significant way. The cities would be a death zone which would cause a mass exodus starting at the very beginning of the crisis as families head into the rural areas seeing the impending lack of food and figuring they are better off elsewhere. The cities will not kill the people off fast enough to prevent these mass migrations from overrunning rural areas searching for food.
Zakuska Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) 15 minutes ago, bluebell said: That's because they all AREN'T fantasies though. looks like Saemo needs to dust off his scriptures. 6000 years full of examples. Edited January 9, 2016 by Zakuska
saemo Posted January 9, 2016 Author Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, bluebell said: That's because they all AREN'T fantasies though. Some of these scenarios have happened at different times in history. (I've read accounts about different European wars in the 14th and 15th centuries that make The Road look optimistic.) Some are happening right now in places like Syria. Leaving out zombies, which no one is serious about, is there some reason you think we are immune to them in our day? That they couldn't happen again like they have before? Of course they are fantasies. You could look at history and fantasize of many futures based on the past. You've just chosen to focus on historical wars and to imagine the future as doomed. Syria is not The Road. The Road takes place in a post apocalyptic world, where nuclear winter is endless. Obviously we are not immune to war but I don't sit around fantasizing about it and preparing for the end of the world. It is by far, better to put my limited time and resources into preparing and working towards peace for the here and now. Edited January 9, 2016 by saemo
bluebell Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 Just now, saemo said: Syria is not The Road. The Road takes place in a post apocalyptic world, where nuclear winter is endless. Obviously we are not immune to war but I don't sit around fantasizing about it and preparing for the end of the world. It is by far, better to put my Limited time and resources into preparing and working towards peace for the here and now. I've read the book and seen the movie. I know what it's about. I also have a history degree, so I know some of what has transpired in the last couple thousand years. If you prefer not to think about the possibilities or prepare for them that's fine. But because you don't want to think about them doesn't make them fantasies. Its not very reasonable to say that people are crazy for wanting to be prepared for real possibilities just because you don't want to do so. 1
saemo Posted January 9, 2016 Author Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) 12 minutes ago, bluebell said: I've read the book and seen the movie. I know what it's about. I also have a history degree, so I know some of what has transpired in the last couple thousand years. If you prefer not to think about the possibilities or prepare for them that's fine. But because you don't want to think about them doesn't make them fantasies. Its not very reasonable to say that people are crazy for wanting to be prepared for real possibilities just because you don't want to do so. The probabilities of me, living in 21st century USA, needing an apocalyptic supply of ANYTHING, are near zero. Going on what you imagine is possible? Well, anything is possible. All that you imagine as possible, is not probable. Imdont think you're crazy. You can prepare for whatever you want. But the answer to my OP question, are all based on fantasizing a future of possibilities, while the future has many other possibilities that are more probable. It is more probable, that I will work until I retire and then die of old age. It is more probable that I will die of disease before then. It is more probable that I could die in a car accident before then. An apocalyptic event is so low in probability that I spend no time worrying about it. Edited January 9, 2016 by saemo
bluebell Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, saemo said: The probabilities of me, living in 21st century USA, needing an apocalyptic supply of ANYTHING, are near zero. CFR on that statistic. I'd like to understand where you are getting it from. I think that you are a bit naive to all the different issues that can create havoc in our lives in a very short amount of time in this day and age. How long do you think the water could be stopped in a community, for example, before things really got bad. Before people got desperate? Depending on the area, the season, and the population, it could be as little as a week. Most statistics suggest that populations without immediate access to a very large river would be out of water in a month. Cities like LA would go do within days in the summer. Have you seen the movie Contagion? It's the realistic portrayal of what would happen to the US under a flu epidemic. It's not pretty. Have you ever considered what would happen if the government had to shut everything down (including food distribution by semi trucks) due to contagious disease, before most areas run out of food? (This is true for those areas that might experience the shutting down of roads to do severe weather.) Depending on the area, it could be as little as 3 days before every grocery store shelf was bare. Have you ever considered how you would feed your family if going to the store suddenly wasn't an option for you or anyone else in your area? Even if you knew that food would show up again in two months, how would you get thru those two months without any kind of previous preparation or government intervention? These aren't apocalyptic issues-there would be a recovery, though it could take months to over a year depending on the problem-but they are still very serious issues that would cause suffering and death depending on how long they went on. And the probabilities of them happening this century in this country are not as near zero as you seem to think they are. Edit to add something since I saw that you added some to your post as well- We are not preppers. We have not stock piled much at all and are woefully unprepared for even meeting our basic food and water needs in my family. We have no hoards of ammo or guns and like you, I don't understand or relate to those people getting ready for us to be back in the Stone Age. The questions that I asked you are just as relevant to myself. Forget about surviving the zombie apocalypse. We would struggle to deal with an earthquake that isolated our area for 2 weeks! Edited January 9, 2016 by bluebell 2
carbon dioxide Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 2 hours ago, The Nehor said: The cities would be a death zone which would cause a mass exodus starting at the very beginning of the crisis as families head into the rural areas seeing the impending lack of food and figuring they are better off elsewhere. The cities will not kill the people off fast enough to prevent these mass migrations from overrunning rural areas searching for food. Depends on where one lives. If one lives in Utah there is considerable distance between large population centers in California and Las Vegas and Utah. I would not expect a lot of people walking hundreds of miles in the desert to loot those in Utah. We have a good enough support system here to keep some order here. One reason I like Utah. It would be a better place to be than back east or in California.
carbon dioxide Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 2 hours ago, saemo said: The probabilities of me, living in 21st century USA, needing an apocalyptic supply of ANYTHING, are near zero. Going on what you imagine is possible? Well, anything is possible. All that you imagine as possible, is not probable. Imdont think you're crazy. You can prepare for whatever you want. But the answer to my OP question, are all based on fantasizing a future of possibilities, while the future has many other possibilities that are more probable. It is more probable, that I will work until I retire and then die of old age. It is more probable that I will die of disease before then. It is more probable that I could die in a car accident before then. An apocalyptic event is so low in probability that I spend no time worrying about it. If anything living today is a lot worse than 100 years ago in a major disaster. People are much more dependent today. Look how pathetic we become when the power goes out. Technology is the only thing we have and technology without electricity is pretty much useless. Plus with more of the population living in cities than in rural areas, if another great depression occurs, a lot of people will die due to lack of food. A lot of people were able to survive in the 30s because they could grow their food but much fewer of the population can do that today. No, nothing super special about being in the 21st century. It may turn out to be a liability.
bcuzbcuz Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 Love it. Mormons who have the ultimate truth and know the intracacies of the next existence and then they stock up on guns and ammo.......with the underlying understanding that they are prepared to KILL to be able to cling to life for a few minutes more. Absolutely love it!!!
bluebell Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 1 minute ago, bcuzbcuz said: Love it. Mormons who have the ultimate truth and know the intracacies of the next existence and then they stock up on guns and ammo.......with the underlying understanding that they are prepared to KILL to be able to cling to life for a few minutes more. Absolutely love it!!! It makes sense. It's a teaching in the church that we are to strive to live as long as possible. Not sure why that's so exciting to you though. 1
PeterPear Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Because .22 ammo made from lead, copper and brass that sold for $8 for a box off 500 shells 3 years ago, now cost $30.00. Better than gold! Edited January 9, 2016 by PeterPear 1
PeterPear Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 Did you all miss out in the spike by not hoarding Ruger's stock when the Whitehouse announced its gun ban?
mfbukowski Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 17 minutes ago, PeterPear said: Because .22 ammo made from lead, copper and brass that sold for $8 for a box off 500 shells 3 years ago, now cost $30.00. Better than gold! And every time someone mentions gun control the price goes up and more guns fly off the shelves. There are more guns in America than there are people and the ratio is increasing.
PeterPear Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 1 minute ago, mfbukowski said: And every time someone mentions gun control the price goes up and more guns fly off the shelves. There are more guns in America than there are people and the ratio is increasing. Then you'd better get a gun to protect yourself from the gun nuts. Lol!
mfbukowski Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 6 minutes ago, PeterPear said: Then you'd better get a gun to protect yourself from the gun nuts. Lol! That is exactly what is happening. I survived the LA riots commuting through them because there were no freeways through the involved neighborhoods at the time. Even on the freeways you could see fires in all directions, and at home all the phones were down. Very scary stuff.
Calm Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, bcuzbcuz said: they are prepared to KILL to be able to cling to life for a few minutes more Somehow I don't think that is what most are thinking even if they are stockpiling guns. Even as I posted this, the dog begins to bark. Dang, I have at least a winter's worth of meat eating my nanking cherry bushes out back. Oh for something more than marbles and a slingshot (I tried a rock once, they just stared menacingly at me. Deer are scary.) Thankfully just yelling loud and nasty sounding but ultimately nonsensical sounds and a few claps were sufficient to convince them to move on. Still not sure I can use a slingshot at a live object even in defense of another living being (my fruit trees and bushes. My dog on the other hand wants to tear their throats out, but they are much bigger than she is and would likely lay a heavy hoof one side of her head if she got up enough guts to come near and we would be having a wake over her. Edited January 10, 2016 by Calm
PeterPear Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 Even better, Preppers should stock up on bags of gold coins. Then when their Suburban's 30-gal gas tank runs dry and their pantry runs out of food, they'll be forced to walk to their favorite Convience Store which will gladly sell you a gallon of milk for $5.oo for your 1-ounce gold coin. Even better the Convience Store will give you $995.oo in change. Yes, stocking up on physical gold is better than stocking up on food.
Calm Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) You eat some gold, your stomach will likely feel full for a long, long time. Now don't think it will be that nutritious. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/explainer/2012/07/the_666_gold_wrapped_douche_burger_is_it_safe_to_eat_gold_.html Edited January 10, 2016 by Calm
sdc999 Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 On 1/8/2016 at 0:33 PM, Bob Crockett said: I love guns but the gun culture really troubles me, particularly when I see some of the wrong stuff put out by the NRA and the way good frends of mine seem deluded by the whole thing. I surely wouldn't want to be known as a gun enthusiast as that would make my home a target for burglary. I am troubled that the high priests' quorum focuses sometimes on guns and gun trips. I've been on one of those gun trips to the desert and after that event did my best to make sure that it wasn't a church activity in the future. We had a major disaster in our neighborhood. An earthquake hit us, several homes partially demolished, streets torn up, water gushing down the street because water mains broke. Some of my neighbors and I went door to door to warn people to fill up their bath tubs because the water tanks would soon run dry and we warned them to turn off the gas. We, for instance, moved senior couple missionaries serving in our area into tents in our yard. The ward used its funds to put some people in hotels. The president of our homeowner's association, known to be a gun enthusiast, sat on his front porch with a shotgun pointed at us and wouldn't move from his house for three days. Maybe if those in the Dallas area would have followed his actions?????? Many that were unable to return to their tornado ravaged homes until several days after the disaster found that looters had helped themselves to many personal belongings. I did see a couple of signs: "Looters will be shot" from some who stayed.
sdc999 Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 On 1/8/2016 at 4:56 PM, The Nehor said: Well, if you think you know better then an apostle who gets to be a seer and can see what is best for the future go ahead and run with it. Yes, but was he speaking as an apostle or speaking as a man? I guess only time will tell. In the future, if what he said holds true, LDS everywhere will talk of his prophecy and if it does not hold true, LDS everywhere when challenged, will say that he was just speaking as a man.
sdc999 Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 2 hours ago, mfbukowski said: And every time someone mentions gun control the price goes up and more guns fly off the shelves. There are more guns in America than there are people and the ratio is increasing. I was at Cabelas today and the line at the gun counter was 3 to 4 deep for the entire length of the display. A friend commented on my post on facebook that it was the same this morning at 10:30 am. I was there at 4. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but if Obama is not a double agent "FOR" the gun companies, he is missing one heck of an opportunity. Everything he has done has driven the record setting gun sales and stock prices. 1
Sleeper Cell Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 3 hours ago, PeterPear said: Even better, Preppers should stock up on bags of gold coins. Then when their Suburban's 30-gal gas tank runs dry and their pantry runs out of food, they'll be forced to walk to their favorite Convience Store which will gladly sell you a gallon of milk for $5.oo for your 1-ounce gold coin. Even better the Convience Store will give you $995.oo in change. Yes, stocking up on physical gold is better than stocking up on food. Personally, I am stocking up on toilet paper. … When the time comes, I’ll make a fortune! 3
Calm Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 Make sure it is the soft absorbent kind. Worth its weight in gold, pre end of the world value.
mfbukowski Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 2 hours ago, sdc999 said: I was at Cabelas today and the line at the gun counter was 3 to 4 deep for the entire length of the display. A friend commented on my post on facebook that it was the same this morning at 10:30 am. I was there at 4. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but if Obama is not a double agent "FOR" the gun companies, he is missing one heck of an opportunity. Everything he has done has driven the record setting gun sales and stock prices. Smith & Wesson stock is up even more than Ruger.
carbon dioxide Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 6 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said: Love it. Mormons who have the ultimate truth and know the intracacies of the next existence and then they stock up on guns and ammo.......with the underlying understanding that they are prepared to KILL to be able to cling to life for a few minutes more. Absolutely love it!!! I don't think that is the point. Our life has a purpose. It is not a race about moving to the next existence. We spend a good deal of time in the premortal world preparing for this moment. We will die soon enough but there are things we need to do while we are here. 2
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