What Is The The Core Teaching Of The Gospel?

[bluebell]

You can't love someone while simultaneously rejecting them and judging them unworthy of you and your group. It's always easier to see how other people are sinning than to see how we are sinning. That's why we don't bat an eye about Jesus' teaching that divorce and remarriage are adultery. We don't cast people out after they remarry. We understand that there are sometimes good reasons for divorce. We can put ourselves in their shoes. When we empathize with people, then we can love them. When we can't empathize, it's impossible to love them. 

 

As I've said before, there is love and there is "love". "Love" is where you hurt someone all the while saying it's for their own good. But of course we don't do that to people we actually love (no scare quotes)

 

Have you considered that it's possible to reject someone, or to delay them, and do it 1) without an unrighteous reason, and 2) while still unconditionally loving them?  Christ managed to do it during His mortal ministry, so it seems really weird to me to argue (in His name) that it can never be done.

 

(And yes, we absolutely do hurt people-often-while doing it for their own good.  Every parent especially knows that and has faced it since the day their babies are born).

[KevinG]

Unfortunately some think hurting someone's feelings while saving them from harm is not love. Usually we grow out of this erroneous belief after adolescence.

[KevinG]

Unfortunately some think hurting someone's feelings while saving them from harm is not love. Usually we grow out of this erroneous belief after adolescence.

[Bobbieaware]

He was accepted when he repented. We are all accepted WHEN WE REPENT.

Even the devils confess that Jesus is Lord. Confessing the truth about Jesus is not what saves us.

Did the Prodigal son get accepted when he came back? His sin was taken away by the Sacrifice the father prepared in his honor and the Father accepted him back unconditionally.

 

Every knee shall bow and Confess Jesus is lord so then ALL will be redemmend and all will be forgiven.

From and LDS point of view, what you say here is false. I don't know if you are LDS, but if you are you should know that ALL WILL NOT BE SAVED. The sons of perdition will not be forgiven nor saved and D&C 76 makes this perfectly clear...

32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;

33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;

34 Concerning whom I have said there is NO FORGIVENESS IN THIS WORLD NOR IN THE WORLD TO COME —

35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.

36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—

37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;

38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath. (D&C 76)

[KevinG]

The irony of someone who rejects the counsel of apostles and prophets (new testament and latter day) lecturing me on what Christ taught about love is not lost on me.

[JLHPROF]

No one reads scripture with out interpretation (or spin as you call it). But Jesus' admonition to love enemies, people who hate you, and complete strangers means that it's unconditional love.

 

No it doesn't.  It means that love isn't restricted by person, but there may be other restrictions.

Not that I'm saying God and Christ don't love everyone, but loving enemies and strangers is not a good example of unconditional.

 

 

 

God's commandment is this: love God, love one another. In my view, those are the core teachings. Any supplementary doctrines that start to supersede either of those must be wrong.

 

And what does it mean to love?  Love doesn't mean accept everything about everyone.  God loves Lucifer, but he still sent him packing from his presence for all eternity.

[JLHPROF]

I have always liked Joseph's summary,

 

The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.

 

If we are going to stand for something, let us stand first for this and allow all others things submit to these first teachings and principles.

 

I REALLY like this quote too. 

I still think unless we define what makes the core principle the very center, there are many ideas that could fit the definition.

[filovirus]

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Since we can't do that perfectly, repentance goes hand in hand. I seem to recall Jesus teaching a lot about repentance. I'll have to check my scriptures just to make sure.

Now, do we repent because we love God? But since we can't love him perfectly we need to repent. I'm soooo confused!!!

[Freedom]

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Commandments are 9th on the list of basic doctrines so you have identified the two most important commandments, but not the most important teachings.

[filovirus]

Jesus is reported to have said the two great commandments are about love. I agree.

Too bad those people of the Old Testament weren't prepared enough to have the core teaching of the gospel. All they were stuck with were the ten commandments. We are definitely better than them (now I'm climbing down from my personal rameumtom).

[filovirus]

Gray, I think I would agree with you if the question were thus stated: What is the core teaching on how we are to live the gospel?

I believe the core teaching of the Gospel as this: Through the atonement of Christ all mankind may be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances.

[Storm Rider]

No one reads scripture with out interpretation (or spin as you call it). But Jesus' admonition to love enemies, people who hate you, and complete strangers means that it's unconditional love. 

 

God's commandment is this: love God, love one another. In my view, those are the core teachings. Any supplementary doctrines that start to supersede either of those must be wrong. 

 

You don't have love without Jesus.  The world does not exist without him.  Excluding him from the supreme, primary position must be wrong, as you stated above.  

 

Joseph said it better and he places Jesus at the central position of the Gospel, the Good News.  Why would anyone purposely exclude Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected?  The Good News has no good news without him.  This is just strange to me.

 

You have also not answered any of my previous questions; what do the commandments have to do with love?  When Jesus said, If ye love me keep my commandments, what did he mean?  What does obedience to commandments have to do with loving people?

 

My problem with adding words, such as unconditional, is that you are adding additional meaning to what Jesus said.  I may not disagree with you meaning, but I am not sure.  You have not clarified it.  

 

No, the core teaching of the Good News is not love.  This is an incorrect understanding of scripture and the purpose of Jesus' role in salvation.  Love does not save you.  Love does not wash away your sins. 

[Bobbieaware]

Unfortunately some think hurting someone's feelings while saving them from harm is not love. Usually we grow out of this erroneous belief after adolescence.

This really encapsulates the core mistake those who oppose the policy are making. To the spiritually ignorant and uninformed, God"s love can appear to be harsh, demanding and very unfair. The foremost example of this tough love of God in action is when the Father commanded his perfectly innocent Son to endure the greatest injustice of all time by commanding him to suffer for billions of grevious sins he did not commit. But in the end this great act of seeming injustice turned out to be the greatest of all blessings in disguise. Similarly, those children who seem to be negatively affected by this policy will have their opportunities more than made up to them in the end by means of the eternal law of divine compensation. As Paul said of those who second-guessed the prophets of old, "thinking themselves to be wise they became fools."

Edited November 12, 2015 by Bobbieaware

[Avatar4321]

There are nine basic doctrines and none of them mention love:

1) Godhead

2) Plan of Salvation

3) Atonement

4) Dispensation, apostasy and restoration

5) Prophets and Revelation

6) Priesthood and Priesthood keys

7) Ordinances and Covenants

Marriage and Family

9) Commandments

 

We need to acquire the pure love of Christ but I would not call it a core teaching. It comes as a result of acting on faith so perhaps faith is a foundation teaching. nevertheless the church does not consider them core teachings. The core teaching is the Godhead.

I would argue the atonement is the divine love of God but faith in Jesus Christ and His atonement is core.

[The Nehor]

You can't love someone while simultaneously rejecting them and judging them unworthy of you and your group.

I can.

[Avatar4321]

I don't believe in unconditional love.  Even God does not believe in it. John 3:16 says that God loved the world that he gave his son and and that love comes with a condition that one must believe to get eternal life.  God did not show unconditional love to Satan and those that followed him. Our love should have very broad boundaries but there are limits.

I disagree. I think He shows unconditional love to all people. But love to a sinner is calling them to repentance and requires tough action sometimes.

[Bobbieaware]

I don't believe in unconditional love.  Even God does not believe in it. John 3:16 says that God loved the world that he gave his son and and that love comes with a condition that one must believe to get eternal life.  God did not show unconditional love to Satan and those that followed him. Our love should have very broad boundaries but there are limits.

The Book of Mormon says the devil and those like him would be more miserable living in heaven than they would be in hell. So their relegation to hell was an act of kindness and compassion, if not love.

[Freedom]

The definition of unconditional love is a matter of semantics. We do not have unconditional forgiveness or acceptance but we can love someone despite their actions. But love certainly is not a core teaching. It is one of many principles  we live in order to benefit from the atonement. 

[mfbukowski]

Is it unconditional love? Unconditional obedience to people higher on the institutional org chart than you? Or something else?

 

I have to go with unconditional love. According to Jesus, the first and second greatest commandments are very similar - love God, love your neighbor. You're even supposed to love your enemies. Love with no conditions, no matter what. That is the core teaching behind Christianity, and I believe that is also the core teaching of Mormonism, at heart.

 

No particular doctrine or policy should ever get in the way of those fundamental principles.

 

That's how I've always viewed the gospel. I'm sure some of you have other ideas to share.

 

ETA: please let's not discuss the new policy specifically. Obviously that inspired this thread, but we've had thousands of posts about that already. 

Why have unconditional love?

 

Why is love even an important principle?   Because our survival as a species depends on love in a family. At the bottom line it is the preservation of values which have enabled the human race to survive and those values raised to the level of religious belief.

 

What are the propositional doctrinal statements of the gospel we create with that love?

 

Yes we need love, but what human function does that serve?  The creation of community with that love.  The creation of family.

 

We worship essentially humanity as a family. The Godhead is a family. and humanity is portrayed as the children of our male Father and female Mother.

 

Adam and Eve were unable to reproduce in the garden or so the story goes, whether it be factual or allegorical.

 

The fall happened so that we could reproduce, and know and learn about the other half of humanity so that we through humanity could progress.  No reproduction, no progression.

 

It is through controling reproductive urges that families are possible.  Civilized reproduction itself historically has been dependent upon family values.  "You mess with my wife, you are gonna be hurting"   Thou shalt not covet...  Thou shalt not commmit...

 

Why the Thou shalt nots?  Because peaceful society depends on following the rules and personal responsibility in that area.  Human males especially  have a tendency to want to reproduce with every eligible female they see, but that is contrary to peaceful civilization.  Families cannot exist under those conditions.

 

The principle that we can overcome all those urges and sin and live together in unconditional love, as you say, is the bottom line, but the purpose of desiring that is to keep families intact and thus have a productive, growing, loving population of humans.

 

"Families can be together forever through Heavenly Father's plan" is the crux of it all.  Our goal is to live as Ideal Humans in an Ideal Human Family in an Ideal Human Civilization we call the Celestial Kingdom, where we can become like our exalted Father and Mother.

 

Those are the ideals and the functions of unconditional love.

 

Without those rules of civilization, without those conditions placed on human sexuality, we are nothing but animals.

 

Unconditional love in a Zion society requres that we live as Ideal Humans, not animals

[mfbukowski]

If you had to distill Christianity into one "core" belief (which I think is impossible to do, really, but here go), I'd say it is

 

For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

 

(D-R translation... I'll fight your protestant King James Version with my Catholic Douay-Rheims translation! )

Yes but why?

 

What was the function in human terms of him being sent?  What was the human significance of this and why should atheists care?

 

If we do not understand the gospel in terms which will communicate to our age, religion is done.  If you do not believe in sin, there is no reason for Christ.

 

Without sin and evil there is no need for redemption

[Bobbieaware]

Why have unconditional love?

 

Why is love even an important principle?   Because our survival as a species depends on love in a family. At the bottom line it is the preservation of values which have enabled the human race to survive and those values raised to the level of religious belief.

 

What are the propositional doctrinal statements of the gospel we create with that love?

 

Yes we need love, but what human function does that serve?  The creation of community with that love.  The creation of family.

 

We worship essentially humanity as a family. The Godhead is a family. and humanity is portrayed as the children of our male Father and female Mother.

 

Adam and Eve were unable to reproduce in the garden or so the story goes, whether it be factual or allegorical.

 

The fall happened so that we could reproduce, and know and learn about the other half of humanity so that we through humanity could progress.  No reproduction, no progression.

 

It is through controling reproductive urges that families are possible.  Civilized reproduction itself historically has been dependent upon family values.  "You mess with my wife, you are gonna be hurting"   Thou shalt not covet...  Thou shalt not commmit...

 

Why the Thou shalt nots?  Because peaceful society depends on following the rules and personal responsibility in that area.  Human males especially  have a tendency to want to reproduce with every eligible female they see, but that is contrary to peaceful civilization.  Families cannot exist under those conditions.

 

The principle that we can overcome all those urges and sin and live together in unconditional love, as you say, is the bottom line, but the purpose of desiring that is to keep families intact and thus have a productive, growing, loving population of humans.

 

"Families can be together forever through Heavenly Father's plan" is the crux of it all.  Our goal is to live as Ideal Humans in an Ideal Human Family in an Ideal Human Civilization we call the Celestial Kingdom, where we can become like our exalted Father and Mother.

 

Those are the ideals and the functions of unconditional love.

 

Without those rules of civilization, without those conditions placed on human sexuality, we are nothing but animals.

 

Unconditional love in a Zion society requres that we live as Ideal Humans, not animals

Just about the best thing I believe you've ever contributed to this board, Mark... Profound and powerfully compelling.

[mfbukowski]

You can't love someone while simultaneously rejecting them and judging them unworthy of you and your group. It's always easier to see how other people are sinning than to see how we are sinning. That's why we don't bat an eye about Jesus' teaching that divorce and remarriage are adultery. We don't cast people out after they remarry. We understand that there are sometimes good reasons for divorce. We can put ourselves in their shoes. When we empathize with people, then we can love them. When we can't empathize, it's impossible to love them. 

 

As I've said before, there is love and there is "love". "Love" is where you hurt someone all the while saying it's for their own good. But of course we don't do that to people we actually love (no scare quotes)

Whats scary about quotes?

 

I do not understand that term and never have-

[mfbukowski]

Did you notice the part where the prodigal son actually left his ways and went back?

He repented.

 

Repentance is the core of redemption.  That's why we are saved by grace-yes- but after repentance.  No repentance, no sorrow for sin.  Sorrow produces the motivation to change your life and repent in the first place.

[mfbukowski]

About core teachings of Judaism, Christianity and Islam:

 

https://youtu.be/soC_MSUo5Qo?t=2m21s

Civilized peaceful life through family and following the rules.

[BCSpace]

Is it unconditional love? Unconditional obedience to people higher on the institutional org chart than you? Or something else?

 

I have to go with unconditional love. According to Jesus, the first and second greatest commandments are very similar - love God, love your neighbor. You're even supposed to love your enemies. Love with no conditions, no matter what. That is the core teaching behind Christianity, and I believe that is also the core teaching of Mormonism, at heart.

 

No particular doctrine or policy should ever get in the way of those fundamental principles.

 

That's how I've always viewed the gospel. I'm sure some of you have other ideas to share.

 

ETA: please let's not discuss the new policy specifically. Obviously that inspired this thread, but we've had thousands of posts about that already. 

 

Imho, the core doctrine is the fact that we are literally the children of God and can become as He is.  Without that and it's surrounding doctrines, we are essentially like any other Christian church.

Edited November 12, 2015 by BCSpace