BookofMormonLuvr Posted September 22, 2015 Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Some may have heard of Bishop Koyle, some not- but in light of today's passing of Elder Scott the following prophecy he gave might be something to keep in the back of our minds: 48.Near the time of the end, many of the General Authorities will become quite old. Troubles will start when three leaders will die in close proximity to one another. The new replacements will not be able to hold the Church together. from: http://ogdenkraut.com/?page_id=185 Edited September 22, 2015 by BookofMormonLuvr 2
Sanpitch Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 Bishop Koyle and his dream mine is a very interesting story that I think most people would be interested in and most people have never heard of. You can use the provided link or do a search for Bishop Koyle's Dream Mine."
Coreyb Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 I figured someone would bring this up. Now does the phrase "near the time of the end" refer to when the old Apostles die or when the replacement apostles are "not able to hold the Church together". Being that they will become the most junior in the quorum, I think it may be quite a while before they will really be the decisive factors in holding things together or not.
Calm Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 The implication is what...in 25 to 30 years from now when the three are the senior apostles, they prove to be incompetent?Even three men among a dozen or so...even if they aren't fantastic, how is the Church going to fall apart? 4
Sanpitch Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 The implication is what...in 25 to 30 years from now when the three are the senior apostles, they prove to be incompetent?Even three men among a dozen or so...even if they aren't fantastic, how is the Church going to fall apart?That is just one small prophecy in a long story, don't worry about that. The gold from that mine is going to provide for the church and the people when the hard times come. My brother has talked to people, a few years ago, that still had stock in that mine, who said that stock holder meetings were still being held. Much work has been done on the mine to find that gold but so far is has been hidden. On the hill side above Salem, Utah you can still a big cement structure remaining from that mine work where they tunneled into the mountain side.
bluebell Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 Some may have heard of Bishop Koyle, some not- but in light of today's passing of Elder Scott the following prophecy he gave might be something to keep in the back of our minds: from: http://ogdenkraut.com/?page_id=185 When was this prophecy given?
Calm Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) That is just one small prophecy in a long story, don't worry about that. The gold from that mine is going to provide for the church and the people when the hard times come. My brother has talked to people, a few years ago, that still had stock in that mine, who said that stock holder meetings were still being held. Much work has been done on the mine to find that gold but so far is has been hidden. On the hill side above Salem, Utah you can still a big cement structure remaining from that mine work where they tunneled into the mountain side.Yeah, I know of it. I find the whole thing quite unlikely.Looking at the map, depending on how far up the mountain it is, with binocs I just might be able to see it from the house if the trees weren't in the way. Maybe if I climb up on the roof...which won't be happening, those days are over with unfortunately. Edited September 23, 2015 by Calm
Calm Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 BB, 1894http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah_chapters/mining_and_railroads/dreammine.htmlIt would be interesting to find out the predictions he made that came true. Anyone have a record of those? 1
JLHPROF Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 This prophecy might be suspect, but that is a pretty darn accurate description of where we sit today. 48.Near the time of the end, many of the General Authorities will become quite old. Troubles will start when three leaders will die in close proximity to one another. The new replacements will not be able to hold the Church together. Not sure about that last clause. It could refer to many different aspects of the Church. But the apostles being the oldest they had ever been and three dying in close proximity is a pretty big coincidence.Have to reread the whole prophecy (it's been a very long time) and see if there is anything in it that reads as "uninspired" sufficient to disregard the whole thing. But that's a fascinating quote even if it is a coincidence.
Calm Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 Anyone chart the ages of the apostles over the years...maybe an average age or average removing the three youngest since it was "many" and not all?
JLHPROF Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 Anyone chart the ages of the apostles over the years...maybe an average age or average removing the three youngest since it was "many" and not all? I think the topic was discussed here: http://www.sltrib.com/home/2245029-155/with-average-age-of-80-mormonhttp://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/65060-the-ancient-apostles/
JLHPROF Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 BB, 1894http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah_chapters/mining_and_railroads/dreammine.htmlIt would be interesting to find out the predictions he made that came true. Anyone have a record of those? Here are some others that may be applicable to today depending on your personal opinion: 2.The Church would have a garment mill. (IE factory)5.Trucks looking like boxcars would be running up and down the roads.9.Weather pattern changes would be seen to the far south-west. Drought would proceed northward year by year increasing in intensity until reaching the valleys of Utah. At that time the troubles were to start in the valleys. The drought would then head east, increasing in intensity.24.Something will cause the Church welfare program to be inadequate at the end.33.The U.S. Government will keep propping up the economy as if it were on stilts, until finally it would suddenly collapse overnight.34.Taxes will become oppressive and almost impossible to pay.87.There will be great bitterness towards the general authorities. The leaders will have to take to the pulpits to keep people from leaving the Church. But there are others that seem unlikely.Still, doesn't bode well for the Republicans (8.The Republican elephant would be in power. At an election, it would sink to its knees, never to rise again.) 1
The Nehor Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many."
Sanpitch Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 I think this site is a good read for the overall story: http://www.reliefmine.com/articles/koyle/46-prophet-sharing-the-faithful-are-still-waiting
filovirus Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) Does his mine have anything to do with the lost Rhoades mine? (Ie. Carre Shinob) Edited September 23, 2015 by filovirus
bdouglas Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 Elder James Talmage was given the assignment by his brethren of the Twelve to investigate Koyle's claims. At the time, I guess, Bro. Koyle was furiously digging in the mountain looking for the gold, as were numerous followers. Of course no gold was ever found, not even after 20 years or so of digging. Koyle-ites today say the gold will be moved to the mountain, placed there by the angel, when it is needed. See link below for Elder Talmage's conclusions about the whole enterprise. http://mormon-chronicles.blogspot.com/2011/12/james-e-talmage-investigation-of-dream.html
bdouglas Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 Quote from Elder Talmage's diary: By a very strong impression to do today what I have long contemplated doing, I left by early train, went to Spanish Fork [utah], there procured a horse and buggy and drove to the foot of the mountain east of Salem. The purpose of my visit is to examine the "Relief Mine," commonly known as the "Dream Mine." Many rumors of this alleged mine have reached me and much has been said concerning supposed inspiration by which the work has been undertaken and prosecuted. I had previously some correspondence with Bishop John H. Koyle of Leland ward, Nebo stake, at whose instance the work has been done. I rode horseback up the steep mountain to the mining property and was glad to find Brother Koyle present, together with my old student and colleague, Dr. Robert H. Bradford, of the University of Utah, who was present with his cousin on a visit. I found thirty men engaged in the work, each of whom is working for stock in the company, all having faith in the divine direction by which they say the mine was located. Brother Bradford and I accompanied by Brother Koyle and others inspected the workings from top to bottom. These workings consist of an irregular shaft, in places vertical, in others running on inclines, changing direction frequently, and extending to a present depth of over 1100 feet. The shaft penetrates the limestone of the region and is absolutely devoid of any evidence of mineralization in the mining sense of the term. The "leader" which Brother Koyle professes to have been following appears at the surface as one of the innumerable fault slips which appear on the western face of the Wasatch, incident to the profound fault by which that noble range has been elevated. After returning to the surface I met Brother Koyle and all the brethren here engaged and told them that from the standpoint of geological structure and all the known laws of mineral occurrence their effort is absolutely without promise of success. I listened to their statements as to the coincidences by which Brother Koyle's action seems to them to have been justified on the basis of direction by a power above the wisdom of man, and to many testimonies of the brethren that they have received manifestations and inspiration directing them to continue this work. I told them I had made the subject a matter of prayer and had asked to be free from all prejudice or bias and to be able to recognize the facts and the truth, and testified to them that while their free agency was, of course, their own and not to be interfered with by me, that I considered it would be well for them to abandon this work and to take themselves to useful and profitable labor. It is astounding to see the great effort they have made in what I believe to be an undertaking directed by the spirit of misguided zeal, which I believe to be the spirit of evil. Work has been in progress here for about 18 years, and on the statement made by the men themselves, the expenditure in labor and money is largely in excess of $100,000.00. I showed the men how utterly contrary to wisdom it is to go to the top of a mountain and there commence to sink a shaft in order seemingly to reach the bottom. The slopes are such that, by tunneling in a short distance from the canyon side, the present bottom of the shaft could be reached with comparatively little expense or trouble; moreover, such a tunnel would have provided for the out-flow of water which at the present time has to be pumped from the level of the present bottom. The whole undertaking appeals to me to be lacking in the ordinary elements of common sense; and I felt I would not be doing my duty did I fail to set forth plainly the utter recklessness and uselessness of such work. As to any divine direction in the matter, I had upon the ground and so testified to the men, an impression not to be disregarded, that the source of the inspiration which they claim is the very opposite of divine. This is but one of many such instances of alleged supernatural manifestations that work among our people, most of them tending to show that those who follow the course indicated will find great wealth in the hills. Truly the spirit of discernment is needed amongst the saints today. The predictions of old, that in the last days evil spirits, and even the spirits of devils will be working miracles among the people, are fulfilled. In this particular case stock in the company is now selling at $1.50 per share, and, as I saw for myself, thirty men are wasteing their brawn and muscle in utterly profitless labor, each receiving two shares of stock per day for his services. I remained with the brethren until after 7 p.m. then descended the mountain and drove to Spanish Fork, thence onward to Springville where I caught the night train, leaving the horse and buggy to be returned by one of the brethren who had volunteered for the service. I reached home shortly before midnight. [James E. Talmage diary] 1
Calm Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 I wonder how much of Taylor's story is true.
Sanpitch Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 I wonder how much of Taylor's story is true. Taylor? I didn't see a Taylor mentioned. Are you referring to Elder Talmage?
Robert F. Smith Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 Some may have heard of Bishop Koyle, some not- but in light of today's passing of Elder Scott the following prophecy he gave might be something to keep in the back of our minds: from: http://ogdenkraut.com/?page_id=185I once met Ogden Kraut, and I recommend that we take Bishop John Koyle the same way I took Kraut -- with a grain of salt. 2
Avatar4321 Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 Interesting coincidence. It seems to me aw should be looking to the living oracles and the Holy Spirit for direction. Not other sources.
longview Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 Quote from Elder Talmage's diary:Very interesting. I liked the 2nd paragraph where he talks about common sense. Too bad the "stockholders" did not realize the idiocy of tunneling from top of peak down to bottom. When they could have tunneled from the side of the mountain to the "lode".
longview Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many."Amen to that. My maternal grandmother and her father and brother and sister were heavily involved in the "Relief Mine". No good thing came off this delusion in their lives and the lives of their children. My sister and I had discussed this strange story in the decades previous and we have rejected this scam by con men.
carbon dioxide Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 I think younger apostles would have a easier job keeping the Church together over older ones as they have more energy. The men who have been called to be apostles have all done a great job in my lifetime. I have a hard time believing the Church is not going to start calling a bunch of weak links to the Church to cause trouble.
Calm Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) Very interesting. I liked the 2nd paragraph where he talks about common sense. Too bad the "stockholders" did not realize the idiocy of tunneling from top of peak down to bottom. When they could have tunneled from the side of the mountain to the "lode".It was tunneled out as it was revealed to him so they didn't have a choice. He shut it down if they argued with him.And he claims he got a lot of rich ore....too rich so that somehow all the worthwhile metals are burned off in the assaying process being at too high a heat.Which makes no sense if I understand how they do assays. Edited September 23, 2015 by Calm 1
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