77 Truths

[The Nehor]

But the Cthulu Mythos- totally different story. 

 

[Jeanne]

One key to discerning truth is that any book that involves many portions in all caps is of the devil.

 

Why do people believe everything they read? There seems to be something about having something printed that makes people believe it must be correct.

I had people ask me this very question when I was reading the Book of Mormon at work.

[Rivers]

For those who are as unfamiliar with the book "77 Truths" as I am, here is the summary from Amazon:

He also has a book to help married couples where one spouse has had a "spiritual awakening" and the other hasn't:

Yep. Mormon Gnosticism.

[The Nehor]

Where do these quacks get their audiences?

[Ahab]

One key to discerning truth is that any book that involves many portions in all caps is of the devil.

Why do people believe everything they read? There seems to be something about having something printed that makes people believe it must be correct.

So some members of the Church read that book and then left the Church soon after.

Can we just say that not all members of the Church are incredibly intelligent?

Nuff said?

Edited September 14, 2015 by Ahab

[BookofMormonLuvr]

So some members of the Church read that book and then left the Church soon after.

Can we just say that not all members of the Church are incredibly intelligent?

Nuff said?

How incredibly pompous and insulting.

Not that I am anything special, but I have a 139 point IQ (not genius but about 39 points higher than the average) based on legitimate testing- not some FB quiz- and I study my butt off in an effort to know truth. Many times I was approached after Institute classes by other students thanking me for my insights and wanting to tell me they were impressed with the knowledge I possess. And I was approached by one Institute director about thinking of getting into the CES.

I didn't stay LDS.

Am I stupid?

Edited September 14, 2015 by BookofMormonLuvr

[Ahab]

How incredibly pompous and insulting.

Not that I am anything special, but I have a 139 point IQ (not genius but about 39 points higher than the average) based on legitimate testing- not some FB quiz- and I study my butt off in an effort to know truth. Many times I was approached after Institute classes by other students thanking me for my insights and wanting to tell me they were impressed with the knowledge I possess. And I was approached by one Institute director about thinking of getting into the CES.

I didn't stay LDS.

Am I stupid?

Does your response to what I said in response to what The Nehor said seem like an incredibly intelligent response to you? Really? As in the best response that ANY incredibly intelligent person would come up with? As if there isn't and couldn't possibly be a BETTER response than how YOU responded? Are the ALL CAPS helping you any AT ALL?

I don't believe ANY amount of the TRUTH would ever lead ANYONE out of the Church, much less only 77 aspects of the truth. But that's just what I believe, along with anyone else who believes that as I do.

And I won't be asking you if you think I am stupid for believing that, along with the others who agree with me, as if your opinion really matters to me.

[The Nehor]

So some members of the Church read that book and then left the Church soon after.

Can we just say that not all members of the Church are incredibly intelligent?

Nuff said?

The scriptures do not suggest that the mentally acute are the ones who will stay in the gospel.

How incredibly pompous and insulting.

Not that I am anything special, but I have a 139 point IQ (not genius but about 39 points higher than the average) based on legitimate testing- not some FB quiz- and I study my butt off in an effort to know truth. Many times I was approached after Institute classes by other students thanking me for my insights and wanting to tell me they were impressed with the knowledge I possess. And I was approached by one Institute director about thinking of getting into the CES.

I didn't stay LDS.

Am I stupid?

Probably are but I base this on my practice of assuming that of anyone who gives their IQ score out as a talking point.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Does your response to what I said in response to what The Nehor said seem like an incredibly intelligent response to you? Really? As in the best response that ANY incredibly intelligent person would come up with? As if there isn't and couldn't possibly be a BETTER response than how YOU responded? Are the ALL CAPS helping you any AT ALL?

I don't believe ANY amount of the TRUTH would ever lead ANYONE out of the Church, much less only 77 aspects of the truth. But that's just what I believe, along with anyone else who believes that as I do.

And I won't be asking you if you think I am stupid for believing that, along with the others who agree with me, as if your opinion really matters to me.

Unlike yourself, I don't question someone's intelligence based on their conclusions and interpretations of history and scripture. So, please, don't project your arrogance, and disdain for others, onto me.

[Ahab]

Unlike yourself, I don't question someone's intelligence based on their conclusions and interpretations of history and scripture. So, please, don't project your arrogance, and disdain for others, onto me.

Accusing me of arrogance and having disdain for others is something you should stop doing. It's not true, even if somehow it may seem to you like an incredibly intelligent thing for you to be doing.

[Ahab]

The scriptures do not suggest that the mentally acute are the ones who will stay in the gospel.

Actually they do. A quick look at the subject of 'Learn, Learning' on our Topical Guide will tell you that much, along with what our Lord has said about what intelligence is - light and truth - and how we need to learn through study and also by faith.

There are those who are ever learning and not able to come to a knowledge of the truth in this life because they don't know where to find it, and there are also some who get puffed up by the learning of men who do not know the ways of the Lord, but everyone who is humble enough to learn from and rely on the Lord is able to learn the truth and stick to it even when the so-called wise in this world argue against what our Lord wants us to know.

The 3 degrees of glory are in fact the 3 degrees of intelligence, with the glory of God being intelligence, and everyone who learns and accepts all that our Lord wants to teach us will receive celestial glory/intelligence.

The terrestrial are those who are honorable and yet allowed others to deceive them, not accepting the Holy Spirit as their guide and instead relying on the arm of flesh. So they are and will be not as intelligent as those who receive celestial intelligence, but more intelligent than those of telestial glory/intelligence.

So in a sense this life is a battle of wits where the most intelligent will come out on top. The arrogant vs the truly humble, with all of us able to learn from the Lord as long as we have the right attitude.

[The Nehor]

Actually they do. A quick look at the subject of 'Learn, Learning' on our Topical Guide will tell you that much, along with what our Lord has said about what intelligence is - light and truth - and how we need to learn through study and also by faith.

There are those who are ever learning and not able to come to a knowledge of the truth in this life because they don't know where to find it, and there are also some who get puffed up by the learning of men who do not know the ways of the Lord, but everyone who is humble enough to learn from and rely on the Lord is able to learn the truth and stick to it even when the so-called wise in this world argue against what our Lord wants us to know.

The 3 degrees of glory are in fact the 3 degrees of intelligence, with the glory of God being intelligence, and everyone who learns and accepts all that our Lord wants to teach us will receive celestial glory/intelligence.

The terrestrial are those who are honorable and yet allowed others to deceive them, not accepting the Holy Spirit as their guide and instead relying on the arm of flesh. So they are and will be not as intelligent as those who receive celestial intelligence, but more intelligent than those of telestial glory/intelligence.

So in a sense this life is a battle of wits where the most intelligent will come out on top. The arrogant vs the truly humble, with all of us able to learn from the Lord as long as we have the right attitude.

Being learned and being intelligent are not the same thing. I have met people with PhDs who I would class as morons.

As to this world being a battle of wits then why does Christ suggest that the weak things of this world will win out? The church has people in it who are genuinely stupid. It is not their fault. It is a weakness given to them in this life. I expect many of them to be exalted because they are faithful despite being easy to outwit.

In the Book of Mormon the three classes of people who seem to get the most specific warnings are the rich, the clever, and the educated.

The glory of God is intelligence but I suspect that is just the closest English word to what God really means. It does not mean having a high IQ is godliness.

[Gray]

 

 

[Ahab]

Being learned and being intelligent are not the same thing. I have met people with PhDs who I would class as morons.

As to this world being a battle of wits then why does Christ suggest that the weak things of this world will win out? The church has people in it who are genuinely stupid. It is not their fault. It is a weakness given to them in this life. I expect many of them to be exalted because they are faithful despite being easy to outwit.

In the Book of Mormon the three classes of people who seem to get the most specific warnings are the rich, the clever, and the educated.

The glory of God is intelligence but I suspect that is just the closest English word to what God really means. It does not mean having a high IQ is godliness.

Yes I'm sure whoever's definition of intelligence you accept has a lot to do with whoever you consider to be intelligent.

Our Lord through Joseph defined it as light and truth and he contrasted it to darkness and what is not true. Not that whoever has some light necessarily has all of it that he can get. Those in the Church that you think are stupid have at least enough light to recognize some of what Christ wants them to know and accept. They just have a lot more they need to learn and accept which will then make them even more intelligent than they already are as people who accept more intelligence than they do at this point in time. But they don't ever have to leave the Church to gain more intelligence, and they would be showing a lack of the intelligence they now have if they left.

The "weak things of the world" are generally the things that those of the world consider foolishness, like the idea that a poor and "uneducated" (according to the standards of this world) farm boy named Joseph Smith actually saw and conversed with God our Father and his son our Lord and educated him on the way things really are and what this life is all about.

You can choose for yourself who you think is really stupid, or how much intelligence you think some people have.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Ahab

[RevTestament]

A couple of acquaintances of mine were reading this book called 77 Truths by Bret Colbridge. They have now decided to leave the church. Is anybody else familiar with this book or author?

Apparently it led them away from the institutional church but not the gospel itself.

D&C 85

 7 And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;

 8 While that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by the vivid shaft of lightning.

 9 And all they who are not found written in the book of remembrance shall find none inheritance in that day, but they shall be cut asunder, and their portion shall be appointed them among unbelievers, where are wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 10 These things I say not of myself; therefore, as the Lord speaketh, he will also fulfil.

 11 And they who are of the High Priesthood, whose names are not found written in the book of the law, or that are found to have apostatized, or to have been cut off from the church, as well as the lesser priesthood, or the members, in that day shall not find an inheritance among the saints of the Most High;

[jwhitlock]

D&C 85

 7 And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;

 8 While that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by the vivid shaft of lightning.

 9 And all they who are not found written in the book of remembrance shall find none inheritance in that day, but they shall be cut asunder, and their portion shall be appointed them among unbelievers, where are wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 10 These things I say not of myself; therefore, as the Lord speaketh, he will also fulfil.

 11 And they who are of the High Priesthood, whose names are not found written in the book of the law, or that are found to have apostatized, or to have been cut off from the church, as well as the lesser priesthood, or the members, in that day shall not find an inheritance among the saints of the Most High;

 

One of the most misused scriptures in the church.

 

So, who is the current iteration of "one mighty and strong"?

[bluebell]

One of the most misused scriptures in the church.

 

So, who is the current iteration of "one mighty and strong"?

 

There have been so many thru the years (some of which who are now in prison for murder), you'd think that people would be more wary of those who believe it's them.

[Duncan]

D&C 85

 7 And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;

 8 While that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by the vivid shaft of lightning.

 9 And all they who are not found written in the book of remembrance shall find none inheritance in that day, but they shall be cut asunder, and their portion shall be appointed them among unbelievers, where are wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 10 These things I say not of myself; therefore, as the Lord speaketh, he will also fulfil.

 11 And they who are of the High Priesthood, whose names are not found written in the book of the law, or that are found to have apostatized, or to have been cut off from the church, as well as the lesser priesthood, or the members, in that day shall not find an inheritance among the saints of the Most High;

 

 

From the First Presidency in 1907

 

"Perhaps no other passage in the revelations of the Lord, in this dispensation, has given rise to so much speculation as this one. [Sec. 85:6-8.] Also, it has been used by vain and foolish men to bolster up their vagaries of speculation, and in some cases their pretensions to great power and high positions they were to attain in the Church. In a word, some have made claims that they were the particular individual mentioned in the revelation, the "one mighty and strong holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the Saints."

One would think in such a matter as this "that" sufficient native modesty would assert itself to restrain a man from announcing himself as the one upon whom such high honors are to be conferred, and who is to exercise such great powers in establishing the Saints in their inheritances; and that even if one suspected, for any reason, that such a position, and such exceptional powers were to be conferred upon him, he would wait until the Lord would clearly indicate to the Church, as well as to himself, that he has been indeed sent of God to do the work of so noble a ministry, as is described in the passage under question. Those, however, who have so far proclaimed themselves as being the "one mighty and strong," have manifested the utmost ignorance of the things of God and the order of the Church. Indeed their insufferable ignorance and egotism have been at the bottom of all their pretensions, and the cause of all the trouble into which they have fallen. They seem not to have been aware of the fact that the Church of Christ and of the Saints is completely organized, and that when the man who shall be called upon to divide unto the Saints their inheritances comes, he will be designated by the inspiration of the Lord to the proper authorities of the Church, appointed and sustained according to the order provided for the government of the Church. So long as that Church remains in the earth—and we have the assurance from the Lord that it will now remain in the earth forever [Sec. 65]—the Saints need look for nothing for God's appointing that will be erratic, or irregular, or that smacks of starting over afresh or that would ignore or overthrow the established order of things. The Saints should remember that they are living in the dispensations of the fulness of times, when the Church of Christ is established in the earth for the last days and for the last time, and that God's Church is a Church of order, or law, and that there is no place for anarchy in it. (D&C Sec. 112:30; also Secs. 33:3; 43:28-31.)

The revelation from which the passage is quoted is a portion of a letter to William W. Phelps, written by the Prophet from Kirtland under date of November the 27th 1832. William W. Phelps, at the time was at Independence, Missouri. In order that the reader may have the whole matter before him, the letter is reproduced in extenso, and the parts afterwards accept as the word of the Lord indicated: [HC 1:297-99, quoted.]

It is to be observed first of all that the subject of this whole letter, as also the part of it subsequently accepted as a revelation, relates to the affairs of the Church in Missouri, the gatherings of the Saints to the land and obtaining their inheritances under the law of consecration and stewardship; and the Prophet deals especially with the matter of what is to become of those who fail to receive their inheritances by order or deed from the bishop. The petition which the Prophet puts into the mouth of his correspondent, Elder Phelps, is:

"Show unto Thy servant what shall become of all those who are essaying to come up unto Zion, in order to keep the commandments of God, and yet receive not their inheritance by consecrations, by order or deed from the Bishop, the man that God has appointed in a legal way, agreeably to the law given to organize and regulate the Church and all the affairs of the same."

This paragraph clearly proved that the subject in hand is the settling of the Saints in Missouri, granting them their inheritances, and the order of it all. In addition, the "bishop," who was Edward Partridge, is especially referred to as "the man that God has appointed in a legal way, agreeably to the law given to organize and regulate the Church and all the affairs of the same. . . . "

It was while these conditions of rebellion, jealousy, pride, unbelief, and hardness of heart prevailed among the brethren in Zion, [Sec. 84:54-58, 76, quoted]—Jackson County, Missouri—in all of which Bishop Partridge participated, that the words of the revelation taken from the letter to William W. Phelps, of the 27th of November, 1832, were written. The "man who was called and appointed of God" to "divide unto the Saints their inheritance"—Edward Partridge—was at that time out of order, neglecting his own duty, and putting "forth his hand to steady the ark," hence, he was warned of the judgment of God impending, and the prediction was made that another, "one mighty and strong," would be sent of God to take his place, to have his bishopric—one having the spirit and power of that high office resting upon him by which he would have power to "set in order the house of God, and arrange by lot the inheritance of the Saints"; in other words, one who would do the work that Bishop Edward Partridge had been appointed to do, but had failed to accomplish.

"But," it will be asked, "does Bishop Partridge fulfill the terms of the prophecy that relate to the man 'falling by the shaft of death, like a tree that is smitten by the vivid shaft of lightning?' " That should not be said without some qualification; although Edward Partridge died eight years later, in the forty-seventh year of his age, a victim of the persecution he suffered in Missouri.

Edward Partridge, in common with most of the Saints in Missouri, as a result of the reproofs and warnings of the Prophet and others, was brought to a partial repentance; still, as late as March, 1833, notwithstanding the partial repentance referred to, the Lord expressed himself as being "not well pleased" with Bishop Partridge and others: [Sec. 90:34-36, quoted.]

Because of the failure of the Saints in Zion to fully repent and keep the commandments of the Lord, the fury of their enemies burst upon them, and they were driven from their possessions into exile, and their homes were destroyed. We here give the Lord's explanation of the troubles that came upon the people; it is found in a revelation given under date of December 16th 1833: (Sec. 101:1-9, quoted.]

In the midst of the troublous times in Missouri, Edward Partridge acted a most noble and self-sacrificing part, and bore many indignities with the greatest patience. He was taken to the public square of Independence, partly stripped of his clothing, and bedaubed with tar and feathers, amid the jeers of the mob. He neither complained nor murmured at this treatment, but bore it well, with meekness and dignity. He was one with five others to offer himself as a ransom for the Church, "Willing to be scourged or even put to death," if that would but satisfy the tormentors of the Saints, and stop the inhuman cruelties practiced towards them by the Missourians. He was also active in settling the Saints in upper Missouri, in 1836-8. He shared in all the labors and hardships incident to the settlement of a new country, and subsequently passed through the trials attendant upon the exodus of the Saints from Missouri. Who shall say that his repentance, his sacrifices, his sufferings and faithfulness did not procure for him a mitigation of the severe judgment decreed against him in the revelation contained in the eighty-fifth section of the Doctrine and Covenants? At any rate, the Lord said, some three years later, that he was well pleased with Edward Partridge. The word of the Lord came to the Prophet to this effect, on the 7th of November, 1835:

"Behold, I am well pleased with my servant Isaac Morley, and my servant Edward Partridge, because of the integrity of their hearts in laboring in my vineyard, for the salvation of the souls of men. Verily I say unto you, their sins are forgiven them, therefore, say unto them in my name, that it is my will that they should tarry for a little season, (in Kirtland) and attend the school and also the solemn assembly, for a wise purpose in me. Even so. Amen." (History of the Church, Vol. II, pp. 302-3.)

Certainly in the face of this plain statement of the Lord's that the sins of Edward Partridge were forgiven him we do not feel that his sad and early death was the fulfillment of the threatened judgment of the revelation. But that he was the man so threatened in that revelation, there can be no question; not only on account of what is here set forth, but also because Orson Pratt, one familiar with Edward Partridge, and an active participant in all these historical matters, publicly declared from the pulpit in Salt Lake City, about the time of the death of President Young, that the man referred to in that passage of revelation in question, was Bishop Edward Partridge. Of the fact of his statement, there can be no doubt; and at the time he was the historian of the Church as well as a member of the quorum of the Apostles.

Now, as to the "one mighty and strong," who shall be sent of God, "to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritance of the Saints." Who is he? What position will he hold in the Church? In what manner will he come to his calling? We draw attention first of all to the fact that this whole letter to William W. Phelps, as well as the part afterwards accepted as the word of the Lord, related to the affairs of the Church in Zion, Independence, Jackson County, Missouri. And inasmuch as through his repentance and sacrifices and suffering, Bishop Partridge undoubtedly obtained a mitigation of the threatened judgment affixed against him of falling "by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by the vivid shaft of lightning," so the occasion for sending another to fill his station—"one mighty and strong to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the Saints"—may also be considered as having passed away and the whole incident of the prophecy closed.

If, however, there are those who will still insist that the prophecy concerning the coming of "one mighty and strong" is still to be regarded as relating to the future, let the Latter-day Saints know that he will be a future bishop of the Church who will be with the Saints in Zion, Jackson County, Missouri, when the Lord shall establish them in that land; and he will be so blessed with the spirit and power of his calling that he will be able to set in order the house of God, pertaining to the department of the work under his jurisdiction; and in righteousness and justice will '"arrange by lot the inheritances of the Saints." He will hold the same high and exalted station that Edward Partridge held; for the latter was called to do just this kind of work—that is, to set in order the house of God as pertaining to settling the Saints upon their inheritances, as will appear from the following passage: [Sec. 57:7,15; 58:14, 17, quoted.]

This future bishop will also be called and appointed of God as Aaron of old, and as Edward Partridge was. He will be designated by the inspiration of the Lord, and will be accepted and sustained by the whole Church, as the law of God provides. His coming will not be the result of a wild, erratic movement, or the assumption of authority by a self-appointed egotist seeking power that he may lord it over the people; God's house is one of order, and admits of no such irregular procedure.

Certainly this prophecy does not allude in any way to any President of the Church, past, present, or to come. The revelation under consideration does not relate to matters that especially concern the duties of the President of the Church: but to the arranging "by lot the inheritances of the Saints," and that is the whole substance of the revelation, a matter distinctly placed under the jurisdiction of the Bishop of the Church. If it shall be urged that the phrase "to set in order the house of God," indicates a larger scope of action than that contemplated in settling the Saints upon their inheritances, the reasonable and sufficient answer is that the scope of this phrase should most certainly be interpreted by the whole subject of the revelation, and not the meaning of the revelation by the particular phrase. So that the phrase, "set in order the house of God" is limited to setting in order the house of God by arranging by lot the inheritances of the Saints.

In conclusion, we would say that the Latter-day Saints by this time, should be so well settled in the conviction that God has established His Church in the earth for the last time, to remain, and no more to be thrown down, or destroyed; and that God's house is a house of order, of law, of regularity, that erratic disturbers of that order of men of restless temperament, who, through ignorance and egotism became vain babblers, yet make great pretensions to prophetic powers and other spiritual graces and gifts, ought not to have any influence with them, nor ought the Saints to be disturbed in their spirit by such characters and their theories. The Church of Christ is with the Saints. It has committed to it the law of God for its own government and perpetuation. It possesses every means for the correction of every wrong or abuse or error which may from time to time arise, and that without anarchy, or even revolution; it can do it by processes of evolution—by development, by an increase of knowledge, wisdom, patience and charity.

The presiding quorums of the Church will always be composed of such men; they will be chosen in such manner, that the Saints can be assured that solid wisdom, righteousness, and conscientious adherence to duty, will characterize the policy of those who are entrusted with the administration of the affairs of the Church. While from time to time, as the work of the Lord may have need of their services, men of exceptional talents and abilities will develop among the people of God; and without disorder, or eruption, or excitement, they will be called of the Lord, through the appointed agencies of the Priesthood and Church authority, to positions that will afford them opportunity for service. They will be accepted by the Saints in the regular order, appointed by the law of the Church, just as Edward Partridge was called and accepted [Sec. 41:9] ; and just as the "one mighty and strong" will be called and accepted; when the time comes for his services. (IE, October 1907, 10:929-33, 936-43.)"

[Rivers]

I don't think the issue is intelligence or lack thereof. It's a matter of people navigating there own spiritual journeys and relationship with God.

Sometimes one's spiritual path leads outside of the church.

[SmileyMcGee]

How incredibly pompous and insulting.

Not that I am anything special, but I have a 139 point IQ (not genius but about 39 points higher than the average) based on legitimate testing- not some FB quiz- and I study my butt off in an effort to know truth. Many times I was approached after Institute classes by other students thanking me for my insights and wanting to tell me they were impressed with the knowledge I possess. And I was approached by one Institute director about thinking of getting into the CES.

I didn't stay LDS.

Am I stupid?

The key to understanding Ahab's mind is that he defines things in a way that will always make him right. He lives to move goal posts...his style also causes one to think that he assumes his definitions are objective truth when the subject matter may seem squishy to you. Edited September 15, 2015 by SmileyMcGee

[boblloyd91]

Interestingly Elder Ballard in our regional conference talked about avoiding false prophets. I'm guessing along with Denver Snuffer and others the brethren feel this is a growing problem

[RevTestament]

I don't think the issue is intelligence or lack thereof. It's a matter of people navigating there own spiritual journeys and relationship with God.

Sometimes one's spiritual path leads outside of the church.

Despite several posters keying in on "one mighty and strong" this is what I was responding to.

If they leave the church due to perceived faults whether or not there is any validity to them, the prophecy says they will have no inheritance with the saints. In other words rather than running away or whatever, they are to be true to their original testimony and effectuate any change they perceive is needed from within the church. This prophecy doesn't say they will be damned to hell forever. It does speak of an order of inheritance, however, and to receive the same inheritance as the saints one must endure with the saints.

[RevTestament]

One of the most misused scriptures in the church.

 

So, who is the current iteration of "one mighty and strong"?

3 Nephi 21:9 For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them.

 10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.

 11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.

 12 And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

[Rivers]

Despite several posters keying in on "one mighty and strong" this is what I was responding to.

If they leave the church due to perceived faults whether or not there is any validity to them, the prophecy says they will have no inheritance with the saints. In other words rather than running away or whatever, they are to be true to their original testimony and effectuate any change they perceive is needed from within the church. This prophecy doesn't say they will be damned to hell forever. It does speak of an order of inheritance, however, and to receive the same inheritance as the saints one must endure with the saints.

Those who do not endure with the saints cut themselves off from being part of the covenent people.

[RevTestament]

Those who do not endure with the saints cut themselves off from being part of the covenent people.