Duncan Posted August 24, 2015 Posted August 24, 2015 Let's say there was a person in a stake calling and this person gives talks on a monthly basis and one of the listeners knew for a fact that the speaker lifts their talks from old general conferences and the gospel principles manual, word for word. Would you as a listener say anything?
Popular Post KevinG Posted August 24, 2015 Popular Post Posted August 24, 2015 Dear brother soandso... I loved your talk the other day, but you might want to credit Elder whatshisname the next time you quote him for 30 minutes. Heh. 5
Calm Posted August 24, 2015 Posted August 24, 2015 You might want to print up a few of the articles on lds.org on how to give a talk such as this one and say that you would enjoy hearing more of his own thoughts on subjects as well as other leaders:https://www.lds.org/youth/article/speaking-in-sacrament-meeting?lang=eng
Paradox_58 Posted August 24, 2015 Posted August 24, 2015 Wait--are you in my ward? Really--in the last several years, I have rarely heard a talk that wasn't based on or a word-for-word reading of a GC talk. It's all they assign anymore. In the last two wards, the bishop or bishopric member (or stake presidency member) simply calls the person with the title and conference issue the talk is found in, or just gives them a copy. Even High Counselors--so if this guy is just using the talk he was assigned, he may have just forgotten the usual intro: "I was asked to speak on the talk given by Elder So-and-So,..." 1
bluebell Posted August 24, 2015 Posted August 24, 2015 You could try something like "Great talk! I really liked it when Elder so-and-so gave it at General conference!" If the person is really plagiarizing then knowing that people are realizing that might be all it takes to stop the practice. 1
filovirus Posted August 24, 2015 Posted August 24, 2015 Doesn't bother me. Gospel Principles can get a little *ahem* dry without commentary, but it contains the doctrine. As for GC talk, I don't mind re-hearing them, even if credit has not been given. 1
ERayR Posted August 24, 2015 Posted August 24, 2015 You might want to print up a few of the articles on lds.org on how to give a talk such as this one and say that you would enjoy hearing more of his own thoughts on subjects as well as other leaders:https://www.lds.org/youth/article/speaking-in-sacrament-meeting?lang=eng It might help but I have notice that since they started giving them conference talks to base their talks on some have simply gotten the habit of reading that conference talk. Maybe it is just misunderstanding. In the time when they were assigned a topic most would prepare a talk and use conference talks as references and authorities.
Duncan Posted August 25, 2015 Author Posted August 25, 2015 I'd report it to the talk police. ahem we're called the Plagiarism Patrol!!! badges and all
Duncan Posted August 25, 2015 Author Posted August 25, 2015 It might help but I have notice that since they started giving them conference talks to base their talks on some have simply gotten the habit of reading that conference talk. Maybe it is just misunderstanding. In the time when they were assigned a topic most would prepare a talk and use conference talks as references and authorities. I used to go with a High Councilor, for speaking, and he did that. He was given a talk to base his off but he said he really didn't use it much and just came up with his own material and it was spirit filled and great! 1
KevinG Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Honestly it is a delicate balance between representing the topic assigned (which is often a General Conference talk) and getting too far afield of the topic. Your speaker may just not be very good at adding his own "spice" to the presentation. On the other hand I have seen many abuses of the opposite type. As in totally unrelated rifs on the title of the topic at hand. 1
Duncan Posted August 25, 2015 Author Posted August 25, 2015 Honestly it is a delicate balance between representing the topic assigned (which is often a General Conference talk) and getting too far afield of the topic. Your speaker may just not be very good at adding his own "spice" to the presentation. On the other hand I have seen many abuses of the opposite type. As in totally unrelated rifs on the title of the topic at hand. as in "I was assigned to address fasting but i'd really like to talk about why you the gospel should have been restored in the Phillipines"! 1
Stargazer Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 This is a funny topic! In fact, I don't see anything wrong with giving a talk that came out of GC for Sacrament Meeting. How many times have we heard special musical pieces played in Sacrament Meeting, and the piece being played was an original composition of the player? Answer: virtually none. They are virtually all "covers" of a pre-existing piece. So, I submit that repeating a GC talk is perfectly reasonable -- once it were adapted, because some of those talks are personalized. If you're not careful you will claim to be an apostle. I've written down a number of my own talks over the years, and I think it would be great if someone here wants to borrow one to give in Sacrament Meeting. Although it does seem appropriate to attribute the talk correctly. 1
KevinG Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 I'm just amazed you could stay awake during an entire High Councillor's talk. Kudos to you Duncan! 1
Stargazer Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 The Church needs to sponsor and provide materials for a class series on how to prepare and give a talk in Sacrament meeting. 1
Duncan Posted August 25, 2015 Author Posted August 25, 2015 The Church needs to sponsor and provide materials for a class series on how to prepare and give a talk in Sacrament meeting. i'd agree with that
filovirus Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 I'm just amazed you could stay awake during an entire "Dry" Councillor's talk. Kudos to you Duncan!Fixed that for you.
carbon dioxide Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Let's say there was a person in a stake calling and this person gives talks on a monthly basis and one of the listeners knew for a fact that the speaker lifts their talks from old general conferences and the gospel principles manual, word for word. Would you as a listener say anything? As long as they not getting gain or receiving praise, why should I care? The point of talks is to teach true doctrines and principles and if people are benefiting from the talks, that really is all that matters. 1
rongo Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Wait--are you in my ward? Really--in the last several years, I have rarely heard a talk that wasn't based on or a word-for-word reading of a GC talk. It's all they assign anymore. In the last two wards, the bishop or bishopric member (or stake presidency member) simply calls the person with the title and conference issue the talk is found in, or just gives them a copy. Even High Counselors--so if this guy is just using the talk he was assigned, he may have just forgotten the usual intro: "I was asked to speak on the talk given by Elder So-and-So,...My counselors and I never assign conference talks. The person conducting finds the speakers and assigns whatever topics he feels we need to hear/they need to give. We alternate every week, so barring bishopric members being out of town, the one responsible for topics assigns them every three-four weeks. The problem is that even when you assign personal talks (my two youth speakers and two adult speakers were given the topics of "The Power of Example" and "Making Personal Sacrifices" for this coming Sunday), many people today instantly go to lds.org and search under that topic, and *then* find a talk to read to the congregation. Even when specifically told to share their insights, experiences, and thoughts, and *not* simply a talk regurgitation. It's a conditioning that has crept in, even when the leaders don't assign conference talks. I, for one, wish that we didn't do the 4th Sunday "Teachings for Our Time" lessons, because they are on an assigned conference talk and most instructors don't do anything but simply read/preside over reading the talk. We have lost the art of good speaking in the Church in large part (there are notable exceptions, and these exceptions are a delight to their hearers). 1
Duncan Posted August 25, 2015 Author Posted August 25, 2015 As long as they not getting gain or receiving praise, why should I care? The point of talks is to teach true doctrines and principles and if people are benefiting from the talks, that really is all that matters. It bothers me for two reasons 1) years ago I was in a class in university where someone plagiarized and it created a storm of activity that affected everyone in their class, pain in the oonka toonka!!!! 2) it's cheating and stealing! he should know better! it cheapens the experience of speaking and just faking it, it's deception. People make life choices based on what they hear in church and if you believe what you are hearing is genuine then you'd be upset when you come across that talk from another source
JAHS Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 For the most part this is a non issue. Most speakers give a reference of whom they are quoting and it would be kind of hard to actually catch someone doing this even if it did happen. And does anyone really pay enough attention to a talk to recognize it was something that was given 5 years ago by a GA? As a speaker I would be too afraid that someone might notice so I would be sure and give credit where it is due.
carbon dioxide Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 It bothers me for two reasons 1) years ago I was in a class in university where someone plagiarized and it created a storm of activity that affected everyone in their class, pain in the oonka toonka!!!! 2) it's cheating and stealing! he should know better! it cheapens the experience of speaking and just faking it, it's deception. People make life choices based on what they hear in church and if you believe what you are hearing is genuine then you'd be upset when you come across that talk from another sourceIn a university setting, if they are doing it and it affects their grade then YES. They are doing it for own personal gain which in this case is a better grade without putting in the work. If one is using someone else experience and passing it off as their own, then yes, I would have a problem with that. Paul H Dunn from what I remember did that. For that reason I will not bother reading his talks. But if one is simply has got ideas regarding a certain teaching in the scriptures from somebody and they use those ideas to teach others without giving credit to the original source, I don.t see a problem with that. We should be more focused on spreading the truth than giving people pats on the back for being the first to see it.
Duncan Posted August 25, 2015 Author Posted August 25, 2015 For the most part this is a non issue. Most speakers give a reference of whom they are quoting and it would be kind of hard to actually catch someone doing this even if it did happen. And does anyone really pay enough attention to a talk to recognize it was something that was given 5 years ago by a GA? As a speaker I would be too afraid that someone might notice so I would be sure and give credit where it is due. for me though, things just don't sound right and you go home and check it out and sunnaofgun! it's Elder So and So's talk from back when. Our previous Stake Pres. did this once and it was a talk I had read over and over again as a missionary so I was familiar with it and now that this person is doing it , it's all suspect. even if they gave a reference why would they just read someone else's talk, they just let everyone else know they put nothing into it and just ripped it from someone else so why should I listen to that?
Duncan Posted August 25, 2015 Author Posted August 25, 2015 In a university setting, if they are doing it and it affects their grade then YES. They are doing it for own personal gain which in this case is a better grade without putting in the work. If one is using someone else experience and passing it off as their own, then yes, I would have a problem with that. Paul H Dunn from what I remember did that. For that reason I will not bother reading his talks. But if one is simply has got ideas regarding a certain teaching in the scriptures from somebody and they use those ideas to teach others without giving credit to the original source, I don.t see a problem with that. We should be more focused on spreading the truth than giving people pats on the back for being the first to see it. well, this person just read the talk from somewhere else, word for word as it turns out and in this case it was from a manual that I had taught from so I was familiar with the examples that were used.
filovirus Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 It bothers me for two reasons 1) years ago I was in a class in university where someone plagiarized and it created a storm of activity that affected everyone in their class, pain in the oonka toonka!!!! 2) it's cheating and stealing! he should know better! it cheapens the experience of speaking and just faking it, it's deception. People make life choices based on what they hear in church and if you believe what you are hearing is genuine then you'd be upset when you come across that talk from another sourcePlagiarizing goes on like crazy in government. No one has a thought of their own. I joke to colleagues that we (county government) are the little brother to another larger county government. Whatever they do, we do. And a lot of the time we copy them word for word. Apparently intellectual rights do not apply to government workers, and if it does no one cares.
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