Plagiarized Talks-Would You Say Something?

[Ahab]

I don't recall ever hearing any general authority discourage others from quoting them. I've never heard them suggest a requirement that attributed quotes be in a format like "Elder Oaks, who was inspired and speaking for God, said..." or "God said, through Elder Oaks...."

The church authorities are good men but they are still men. They are not immune to flattery or the feeling of importance when they are quoted as the authority. "They" are the authority being quoted, not God.

We sustain them as prophets, seers and revelators, though, so it's generally understood that they are speaking for God.

Don't act all surprised now. I know you know that.

[Duncan]

When I say what someone else has said and have the same thoughts as someone else it is still me who is saying what I am saying and thinking what I am thinking. And my goal is to have the same mind or mindset as that of Christ and our Father and the Holy Spirit so that I am saying and thinking what they would in my situation, as well as what others would when they are also "one" with them.

So I'll say it again, all good thoughts are the thoughts of God (the big 3) and I give all of the credit for any good thought or word to them.

So keep that I mind so I don't have to keep saying that.

 

 

I understand but I don't think being dishonest in a talk is getting the mind of Christ, stealing is stealing

[St. Bookmark]

Just last month I was asked to give a talk on the the plan of salvation, and since I have been accused of teaching false teachings, I read word for word from hand book two, but gave it in my own style as not to appear as being read, every one loved it and know one was the wiser Iam still waiting for someone to find fault in it, lol.

[carbon dioxide]

I understand but I don't think being dishonest in a talk is getting the mind of Christ, stealing is stealing

The New Testament writers constantly quote the Old Testament without directly saying so.  Where they stealing?  I don't think taking ideas from others to use to teach is bad if the purpose to simply educate and make your audience better.  If one is doing it for their own personal benefit, that is when it becomes an issue.  If I came up with some great idea that would help bring people closer to Christ, I don't care if someone takes my idea and spreads it without giving me credit.   God knows who originally came up with it and that is good enough for me.  As long as my idea gets out there and more people come to Christ, that is all that matters. 

[Ahab]

I understand but I don't think being dishonest in a talk is getting the mind of Christ, stealing is stealing

To be honest you should admit that it is not stealing for somebody to say something that somebody else has said, regardless of whether or not credit is given to others who said it.

[Duncan]

To be honest you should admit that it is not stealing for somebody to say something that somebody else has said, regardless of whether or not credit is given to others who said it.

 

in plain english! hahahahahahaha!

[Duncan]

The New Testament writers constantly quote the Old Testament without directly saying so.  Where they stealing?  I don't think taking ideas from others to use to teach is bad if the purpose to simply educate and make your audience better.  If one is doing it for their own personal benefit, that is when it becomes an issue.  If I came up with some great idea that would help bring people closer to Christ, I don't care if someone takes my idea and spreads it without giving me credit.   God knows who originally came up with it and that is good enough for me.  As long as my idea gets out there and more people come to Christ, that is all that matters. 

 

we aren't writing scripture here

[Ahab]

we aren't writing scripture here

speak for yourself.

scripture is written by anyone who writes what God inspires that person to write, and God often inspires people to say pretty much the same thing.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Ahab

[Duncan]

speak for yourself.

scripture is written by anyone who writes what God inspires that person to write, and God often inspires people to say pretty much the same thing.

 

a person stealing a talk and giving it is what we are talking about here and to me God doesn't sanction that, it's whited sepulchres and all that

[stemelbow]

That is a problem.  If you no longer see God as speaking then he becomes dead, simply a myth.

No I don't. Where'd you get that idea?

[stemelbow]

Yes we should make that distinction, the errors are ours. God is still speaking through us when we say what he inspires us to say what we say, though. Just as Nephi said with the inspiration of God: the errors In our writings are the errors of men. And yet God still spoke through him, and still does even now when he inspires us.

I see it diffierently, in that God inspires, and speaks to man, but the words the man brings to us aren't God's words, per se.

[Ahab]

a person stealing a talk and giving it is what we are talking about here and to me God doesn't sanction that, it's whited sepulchres and all that

You seem to have it set in your mind that such a thing is stealing, and to my mind that is irrational thinking. It's simply duplicating the talk, copying it, saying what someone else said.

I'm done now. I've made my point as clear as can be.

[Duncan]

You seem to have it set in your mind that such a thing is stealing, and to my mind that is irrational thinking. It's simply duplicating the talk, copying it, saying what someone else said.

I'm done now. I've made my point as clear as can be.

 

without permission and giving the impression that such thoughts and exact words are your own, giving the impression to the congregation that such are your own, to me that's stealing and giving a false impression. Thank you for your thoughts!

[HappyJackWagon]

To be honest you should admit that it is not stealing for somebody to say something that somebody else has said, regardless of whether or not credit is given to others who said it.

My high school students will be so relieved to know they can plagiarize their essays that are due on Monday.

Someone else said it. They will pass it off as their own. All is good.

Or maybe the school has a higher standard than the church?

[Ahab]

My high school students will be so relieved to know they can plagiarize their essays that are due on Monday.

Someone else said it. They will pass it off as their own. All is good.

Or maybe the school has a higher standard than the church?

As a teacher maybe it would be good for you to teach your students the exact point at which someone else's thoughts or words become their own, supposing a person chooses to make someone else's thoughts or words their own.

And if you try to make it seem as if people can't or shouldn't do that, I will reject your teachings because I already know they can and should do that if they want to. There is no need for anyone to stay stuck or limited to what only they say without including what others say and any of us can adopt anyone else's thoughts or words as our own if we want to.

I don't even think it's possible for anyone to say something that only one person has said.

[HappyJackWagon]

As a teacher maybe it would be good for you to teach your students the exact point at which someone else's thoughts or words become their own, supposing a person chooses to make someone else's thoughts or words their own.

And if you try to make it seem as if people can't or shouldn't do that, I will reject your teachings because I already know they can and should do that if they want to. There is no need for anyone to stay stuck or limited to what only they say without including what others say and any of us can adopt anyone else's thoughts or words as our own if we want to.

I don't even think it's possible for anyone to say something that only one person has said.

You're still missing the context of this conversation.

 

When a speaker gets up month after month and reads someone elses talk with no attribution, it is plagiarism. He is taking credit for organized ideas he did not perform the work to come up with. He is stealing someone elses work.

 

You then argue that any thought that is good comes from God anyway so there is no need to worry about plagiarism since it all comes from God.

 

The original question was about whether or not someone should say something to the plagiarizer. You seem to be saying "no" even though you state that a teacher should teach the student how to properly make a distinction between their ideas and the ideas of another but in the case of the OP there is absolutely nothing original. The speaker is reading the entire talk. He is stealing the ideas and words of another person and claiming them as his own. I'm really not sure why you're arguing for plagiarism. 

[Ahab]

You're still missing the context of this conversation.

No, I understand the issue just fine.

...I'm really not sure why you're arguing for plagiarism.

Because when someone says the same thing as someone else it usually means they agree with what that other person said and is accepting those words as their own. And we all do that, whether or not we reference the name or names of the other person/people who also said what we said.

Imitation is one of the sincerest forms of flattery/praise, haven't you heard. As a disciple of Christ I often use his words as my own words just as do most other prophets of God, whether or not I or they say something like "thus saith the Lord" or cite the book, chapter and verse where he or a prophet has said the same thing.

[HappyJackWagon]

No, I understand the issue just fine.

Because when someone says the same thing as someone else it usually means they agree with what that other person said and is accepting those words as their own. And we all do that, whether or not we reference the name or names of the other person/people who also said what we said.

Imitation is one of the sincerest forms of flattery/praise, haven't you heard. As a disciple of Christ I often use his words as my own words just as do most other prophets of God, whether or not I or they say something like "thus saith the Lord" or cite the book, chapter and verse where he or a prophet has said the same thing.

I find it astonishing that you are a proponent of plagiarism as a "sincere form of flattery" without any consideration for the intellectual work that is being stolen. It appears we have different ethical standards so there's no use arguing about it any more.

[Ahab]

I find it astonishing that you are a proponent of plagiarism as a "sincere form of flattery" without any consideration for the intellectual work that is being stolen. It appears we have different ethical standards so there's no use arguing about it any more.

Just stop it with the "stolen" bit.

What was said before is still back there where it was said and it's not as if someone who made the statement before can't say it again. Repeating or copying or duplicating a comment isn't what stealing is.

[ERayR]

I find it astonishing that you are a proponent of plagiarism as a "sincere form of flattery" without any consideration for the intellectual work that is being stolen. It appears we have different ethical standards so there's no use arguing about it any more.

 

The talks and articles in the Church magazines are published, disseminated and members are encouraged to use them.  Implicit permission is given for their use.  My concern is not that somebody is stealing the brethren s material.  It is that they are giving little thought or personal understanding in their presentation.  Without seeking personal revelation it is hard to receive any.