Who Inscribed The Brass Plates?

[filovirus]

In 1 Nephi 5 it states that the plates of brass contained many prophecies which "have been spoken by the mouth of Jeremiah." (v13). We know that Jeremiah was a contemporary with Lehi and his group, but that Lehi didn't fully know all that was contained on the plates of brass.

 

I would assume that the brass plates were handed down in a similar manner as the golden plates in the new world. The question I have is, do we know who was inscribing the brass plates during Lehi's life in Jerusalem?

 

In thinking it over, this is what I have come up with:

 

1) Jeremiah himself inscribed his prophesies on the brass plates. This would have meant he had a close relationship with Laban, who was the keeper of the plates. We don't know much about Laban, other than he is the antagonist to Nephi in the first few chapters in the BOM, and was probably more bad than good if God allowed Nephi to kill him. I can't see Jeremiah interacting with Laban, or rather Laban allowing Jeremiah access to inscribe the plates of brass.

 

2) Laban inscribed on the plates of brass. They were under his dominion and he was obviously the caretaker of the plates. This means he would have accepted Jeremiah as a prophet and yielded to his words (Jeremiah's) believing they were from God. In a city of 25000, it is very likely that both Laban and Jeremiah at least knew of each other. Jeremiah visited the king many times and Laban was at the very least a type of general to the king. Again, from what the scriptures tell us about Laban, it doesn't sound like he was a believer in the words of Jeremiah.

 

3) Zoram inscribed on the brass plates. Zoram was a servant of Laban, possibly a scribe. This to me makes the most sense. We know that Zoram had access to the brass plates. I offer my conjecture that Zoram believed that Jeremiah was called of God and was a prophet. Zoram decided pretty quickly to leave Jerusalem with Nephi and his brothers in 1 Nephi 4.  Why else would he go with them if he didn't believe that Jerusalem would be destroyed, like Jeremiah was preaching? If Zoram was a scribe, he had plenty of time to teach Nephi scriptural writing styles in their travels together, again conjecture on my part.

 

4) Someone in Lehi's immediate family inscribed on the brass plates. Laman? Lemuel? Sam? Nephi? Probably not. They would have told Lehi what the brass plates contained.

 

5) Someone else not mentioned in the BOM, but a believer in the words of Jeremiah. If memory serves correctly, Ezekiel and Daniel would have been contemporaries of Nephi, had he stayed in Jerusalem. And there were other prophets in and around Jerusalem.

 

 

[JAHS]

How Laban obtained the brass plates and where they originally came from are not known as far as I know. Theories include the possibility that they originated in the days of Joseph of Egypt. The Book of Mormon indicates that Laban and his father had inherited and preserved the record because they were descendants of this Joseph (1 Ne. 5:16).

[Avatar4321]

Absent divine revelation how can anyone know the answer to that?

[filovirus]

Yes, I realize they probably originated from the northern Kingdom and not from Jerusalem, but I guess the question is: Who was writing on them during Jeremiah's time, a time when they were in Jerusalem? They contain prophesies "even down to the commencement of the reign of Zedekiah". 1 Nephi 5:12 Someone was still inscribing on them up to the point where we get the first chapter of the BOM. 1 Nephi 1:4. Who was inscribing on them at THAT time?

[JAHS]

Yes, I realize they probably originated from the northern Kingdom and not from Jerusalem, but I guess the question is: Who was writing on them during Jeremiah's time, a time when they were in Jerusalem? They contain prophesies "even down to the commencement of the reign of Zedekiah". 1 Nephi 5:12 Someone was still inscribing on them up to the point where we get the first chapter of the BOM. 1 Nephi 1:4. Who was inscribing on them at THAT time?

I tend to think that what Laban had was just one of perhaps several copies of those particular scriptures and that he inherited them from his forefathers. I mean what are the odds that Lehi just happened to live near the only person who had such records?  Just guessing.

[Calm]

Given the stuff from Isaiah, what is likely the earliest Laban could have inherited the plates if no one else added to them.

Interesting idea about Zoram, but he might have gone along because even if Nephi did not threaten to kill him, he might believe that Laban would kill him when the loss of the plates were discovered or whomever came looking for the killer of Laban if he figured out that Laban was killed...can't remember if this is made clear or not.

[Nevo]

Yes, I realize they probably originated from the northern Kingdom and not from Jerusalem, but I guess the question is: Who was writing on them during Jeremiah's time, a time when they were in Jerusalem? They contain prophesies "even down to the commencement of the reign of Zedekiah". 1 Nephi 5:12 Someone was still inscribing on them up to the point where we get the first chapter of the BOM. 1 Nephi 1:4. Who was inscribing on them at THAT time?

 

That's a good question.

 

I find the whole idea of there even being brass plates to be problematic. As Robert L. Millet notes in the Book of Mormon Reference Companion, "the plates of brass were like the Old Testament but more extensive (1 Ne. 13:23)" (emphasis mine).

 

They apparently contained:

• Lehi's genealogy (1 Ne. 3:12; 5:14)
• the five books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy (1 Ne. 5:11)
• "a record of the Jews from the beginning, even down to the commencement of the reign of Zedekiah" (1 Ne. 5:12)
• prophetic oracles "from the beginning, even down to the commencement of the reign of Zedekiah" (1 Ne. 5:13) — including those of Isaiah, Deutero-Isaiah, and Jeremiah, as well as the writings of non-biblical prophets such as Zenos, Zenoch, Neum, and Ezias

If all of this was inscribed on bronze or copper plates, I am surprised that anyone could actually lift the thing. Book-length texts were typically written on scrolls, not on metal plates and not in codex form (which is generally agreed to have been invented later). In this case, we're talking about a collection of dozens(?) of books. (By way of comparison, the Isaiah scroll found among the Dead Sea Scrolls—one book—is 11 inches high and 24 feet long.)

 

It's also doubtful that all of these writings were extant when Lehi left Jerusalem (e.g., Deutero-Isaiah) and that they were already being joined together as a defined set of authoritative scriptures. Furthermore, the Torah, the prophetic writings and the historical books are generally conceded to have been the product of scribes attached to the palace or temple and housed in royal and temple archives—which were closed to the public. Apart from the king, it's unlikely that any Israelite or Judean family had leave to obtain private copies of these texts.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Nevo

[Tacenda]

That's a good question.

 

I find the whole idea of there even being brass plates to be problematic. As Robert L. Millet notes in the Book of Mormon Reference Companion, "the plates of brass were like the Old Testament but more extensive (1 Ne. 13:23)" (emphasis mine).

 

They apparently contained:

• Lehi's genealogy (1 Ne. 3:12; 5:14)
• the five books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy (1 Ne. 5:11)
• "a record of the Jews from the beginning, even down to the commencement of the reign of Zedekiah" (1 Ne. 5:12)
• prophetic oracles "from the beginning, even down to the commencement of the reign of Zedekiah" (1 Ne. 5:13) — including those of Isaiah, Deutero-Isaiah, and Jeremiah, as well as the writings of non-biblical prophets such as Zenos, Zenoch, Neum, and Ezias

If all of this was inscribed on bronze or copper plates, I am surprised that anyone could actually lift the thing. Book-length texts were typically written on scrolls, not on metal plates and not in codex form (which is generally agreed to have been invented later). In this case, we're talking about a collection of dozens(?) of books. (By way of comparison, the Isaiah scroll found among the Dead Sea Scrolls—one book—is 11 inches high and 24 feet long.)

 

It's also doubtful that all of these writings were extant when Lehi left Jerusalem (e.g., Deutero-Isaiah) and that they were already being joined together as a defined set of authoritative scriptures. Furthermore, the Torah, the prophetic writings and the historical books are generally conceded to have been the product of scribes attached to the palace or temple and housed in royal and temple archives—which were closed to the public. Apart from the king, it's unlikely that any Israelite or Judean family had leave to obtain private copies of these texts.

That's my opinion also. The repetitive nature of the BoM is extensive. If someone is engraving on metal plates, they are going to leave the sentence as is, not repeat it, IMO. If the plates existed, Joseph did as history has said, he translated w/o them. And added inspiration.

[longview]

If Zoram was the scribe, he must have been very skilled in etching in the Brass Plates.  He might even have been good at making awls for the purpose of etching.  God may have intended for Zoram to go with the Lehi Clan to teach Nephi and descendants those two important abilities.

[The Nehor]

I suspect Laban only recently came into possession of the brass plates, possibly to put them in hiding for the big Babylon/Egypt showdown that was simmering at the time. The Book of Mormon never claims Laban owned the Brass plates, only that he had them. For all we know Lehi may have had some sort of a claim on them. This makes Laman's attempt to convince Laban to hand the plates over a little more rational.

[hagoth7]

3) Zoram inscribed on the brass plates....

Interesting statement. May I ask what your basis is for saying this?

[filovirus]

Interesting statement. May I ask what your basis is for saying this?

Pure conjecture. From the Gospel of filovirus. But according to the BOM, someone was still actively inscribing on the brass plates up until chapter 1 of 1 Nephi. Just wondering who it was or who it could have been.

[cinepro]

Pure conjecture. From the Gospel of filovirus. But according to the BOM, someone was still actively inscribing on the brass plates up until chapter 1 of 1 Nephi. Just wondering who it was or who it could have been.

 

It's always good form to include the reference (and even a cut-and-paste of the verse) when you say "according to the BOM".

[filovirus]

1 Nephi 5:13 Plates of brass contained many prophecies which "have been spoken by the mouth of Jeremiah."

1 Nephi 5:12 Contain prophesies "even down to the commencement of the reign of Zedekiah"

1 Nephi 1:4 It came to pass in the commencement of in the first year of the reign of Zedekiah...there came many prophets, prophesying unto the people...

[filovirus]

1 Nephi 5:13 Plates of brass contained many prophecies which "have been spoken by the mouth of Jeremiah."

1 Nephi 5:12 Contain prophesies "even down to the commencement of the reign of Zedekiah"

1 Nephi 1:4 It came to pass in the commencement of in the first year of the reign of Zedekiah...there came many prophets, prophesying unto the people...

[Kevin Christensen]

The commencement of the reign of Zedekiah corresponds to the Babylonian defeat of the Egyptians. My own theory is that the plates were done at the instigation of the Egyptians for purposes of prestige and as a rescource for training their civil servants in the ways of the people whose rule they administered. The script chosen was chosen not because it was simple, but because it was Egyptian and compact.

Remember that the Septuagint itself was commissioned by a late Egyptian ruler. Jehoiakim has been installed by the Egyptians, and deposed by the Babylonians.

With the plates having been prepared during Jehoiakim's puppet reign, that would also be a period when the Deuteronomist reformers were disrupted to a degree.

With the defeat of the Egyptians, the sponsorship and intended purpose of the plates would be disrupted. They sat in Laban's treasury. If Lehi was a metal-smith, he'd probably know about the project. Nephi shows evidence of having undergone scribal training as well, so he'd be able to use and benefit from the plates.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburgh, PA

[oneclimbs]

It seems to me that there are examples of many strange objects from antiquity such as the Antikythera mechanism which is an ancient analog computer, made of bronze, that was created around 150 B.C. As far as we know, it was a unique artifact with nothing else quite like it that survived. It kind of stands alone as the work of some unknown creator. 

 

It seems to me that people are always looking for some parallel patterns of people doing the same thing to justify the existence of a particular artifact. But then you have the Codex Gigas (Devil's Bible) which is this enormous book that's about three feet long and perhaps a foot thick and nobody knows who made it.

 

Perhaps the brass plates were not a common thing, perhaps they were just another singular artifact with no other equal that were commissioned by some creative individual and then passed on and added to. I've provided only two examples off the top of my head but history is full of bizarre, unique artifacts that have equal.

 

Sometimes people just get a wild hair and make wonderfully curious things, but that is what makes them special, treasured and valued.

[canard78]

The commencement of the reign of Zedekiah corresponds to the Babylonian defeat of the Egyptians. My own theory is that the plates were done at the instigation of the Egyptians for purposes of prestige and as a rescource for training their civil servants in the ways of the people whose rule they administered. The script chosen was chosen not because it was simple, but because it was Egyptian and compact.

Remember that the Septuagint itself was commissioned by a late Egyptian ruler. Jehoiakim has been installed by the Egyptians, and deposed by the Babylonians.

With the plates having been prepared during Jehoiakim's puppet reign, that would also be a period when the Deuteronomist reformers were disrupted to a degree.

With the defeat of the Egyptians, the sponsorship and intended purpose of the plates would be disrupted. They sat in Laban's treasury. If Lehi was a metal-smith, he'd probably know about the project. Nephi shows evidence of having undergone scribal training as well, so he'd be able to use and benefit from the plates.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburgh, PA

It's just a shame that they only made one copy and that the Lehites took it away with them and, presumably, left them in that cave somewhere with all the other plates.

Imagine having a 600BC copy of the early books of the Torah on brass. That would be an impressive document.

In the archaeology thread there's been the suggestion that any expectation of finding solid evidence in the Americas for the presence of Jewish settlers is pie in the sky thinking. That cave though...

[Robert F. Smith]

................................................................................

......................................The question I have is, do we know who was inscribing the brass plates during Lehi's life in Jerusalem?

......................................................................

1) Jeremiah himself inscribed his prophesies on the brass plates. This would have meant he had a close relationship with Laban, who was the keeper of the plates. We don't know much about Laban, other than he is the antagonist to Nephi in the first few chapters in the BOM, and was probably more bad than good if God allowed Nephi to kill him. I can't see Jeremiah interacting with Laban, or rather Laban allowing Jeremiah access to inscribe the plates of brass.

The Priest-Prophet Jeremiah did no writing of his own that we know of.  He had two scribes (brothers, and both priests) who did all his dictation, and who later edited his book.  The professional scribe(s) charged with keeping the Bronze Plates up to date might have sought out one of Jeremiah's scribes to get the latest prophecies.

 

2) Laban inscribed on the plates of brass. They were under his dominion and he was obviously the caretaker of the plates. This means he would have accepted Jeremiah as a prophet and yielded to his words (Jeremiah's) believing they were from God. In a city of 25000, it is very likely that both Laban and Jeremiah at least knew of each other. Jeremiah visited the king many times and Laban was at the very least a type of general to the king. Again, from what the scriptures tell us about Laban, it doesn't sound like he was a believer in the words of Jeremiah.

Laban was a mere Captain of Fifty, and that position was probably separate from his job as Custodian of the Bronze Plates.  He and Lehi were likely descendants of families who fled the Northern Kingdom a century earlier and came to Jerusalem with other refugees of the Assyrian conquest.  They may have been descendants of a family of royal scribes who fled with the precious Bronze Plates.  Brant Gardner makes an excellent case for Nephi as a professional scribe in his “Nephi as Scribe,” FARMS Review, 23/1 (2011):45-55, available online at http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/review/?vol=23&num=1&id=818 ; Gardner, “Musings on the Making of Mormon’s Book: Preliminary: Nephi as Author,” InterpreterBlog, July 4, 2013.

 

Lehi and Nephi were each likely trained scribes (each doing a young internship).  That is the only way that they could read ancient Egyptian.