BookofMormonLuvr Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I don't think feminism is very popular in Kenya. She's in for a rude surpise.That is the thing about "Progressives"- you see, the history of white male imperialism over African nations that has led to their suffering is of vast more importance than what the women are subjected to routinely by African men.Remember, anything coming from white males = bad. Anything else = excusable.
Teancum Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I've grown bored with this conversation. It takes two to have a conversation. A corrollary to that is that it only takes one to end it. I'm ending this one.Oh poor Scott... You are bored. Fine. But it is clear to me that you want....and need...a protected environment. Not surprising really,As for how toxic certain message boards are I guess it is a matter of perspective. I think there is plenty of toxicity here as well as on that other board. Neither are immune from it and the toxic behavior comes out in different ways, but is exists here quite so.But hey I'm in a one sided conversation now and enough on the derail. 1
Tacenda Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Well, I can only speak for myself. But it took me some time away from Church to realize that even though I still had questions and that some of my personal opinions were heretical, I missed fellowship with the Saints, serving in the ward, etc... At that time I went and had a great chat with my bishop and he put me to work! I think there is an unfortunate idea that one has to believe x, y, and z to be a Latter-day Saint involved with the ward, stake, community, etc... This just isn't the case. I've found that local leaders are anxious to find a place for anyone who wants to be involved.I feel the same!
Teancum Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 My lovely LDS wife keeps telling me that God works through people in and out of the church, and if they fulfill His will for them, they'll be fine in the eternities.Yes John this is wisdom. But it is wisdoms true beleiving Mormons seem unable to grasp.
Teancum Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 She is going down a dark path, and perhaps worse, she is encouraging others to follow her down it. I think that's the consensus. Thanks, -SmacYou think it is a dark path because you think YOU have the truth. Fine. Someday though you may be surprised. 1
Teancum Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Beware! It's happening again. John baits people into making the thread about him, then goes elsewhere and complains about how badly he was treated.Oh please. Get a life dude. Here is an example of the toxic nature is this board, Edited July 19, 2015 by Teancum 1
Teancum Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Leaving me out of it, do people who leave the church reject God?No!
Teancum Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 If a person had a testimony at one point and leaves the answer is yes. To reject God's servants is to reject God. He treats it the same. In rare cases, they become a son of perdition. Being in the Church causes one to leave neutrality forever.Well it looks like almost the entire world has a problem.
omni Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I wonder if Kate Kelly would seriously like the Church if it just caved in to dissent from people who want to mold the church into their liking. Where would the nonsense stop if OW got its way? What would stop a group of members to advocate "ordain cats"? Would she like the Church to give in to that group and have cats ordained as well? I don't think she would but they just would be using her example but just a different cause.Great point! Ever since they allowed women to vote we've had to fight off the "cat vote" agitators. I suspect soon they'll get their wish right after the Feds start forcing us to marry our dogs in the temple. 2
bluebell Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 No!This is demonstrably false. I know people who have left and are now atheists. Of course they have rejected God. You can't claim he doesn't exist and at the same time embrace him. The correct answer to the question seems obvious. Some people who leave have rejected God. Others who leave have not. Neither absolute answer of yes or no is true. 2
BookofMormonLuvr Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Great point! Ever since they allowed women to vote we've had to fight off the "cat vote" agitators. I suspect soon they'll get their wish right after the Feds start forcing us to marry our dogs in the temple.So, leaving behind the, obviously, extreme parody example of cat ordination- do you believe the church should change things whenever enough vocal people agitate for such changes?
Teancum Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 This is demonstrably false. I know people who have left and are now atheists. Of course they have rejected God. You can't claim he doesn't exist and at the same time embrace him. The correct answer to the question seems obvious. Some people who leave have rejected God. Others who leave have not. Neither absolute answer of yes or no is true.Sorry but is false? Some may have rejected God. Others are searching. Other have found a new path to God. One thing is certain. The LDS church is not the only way to God or to truth and enlightenment.
JLHPROF Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 No! Sorry but is false? Some may have rejected God. Others are searching. Other have found a new path to God. One thing is certain. The LDS church is not the only way to God or to truth and enlightenment. There is only one path to God. How you find that path may require a circuitous route throughout your life, but the path is single, constant, and unchanging.So yes, people who reject the true Gospel reject God. How could it be otherwise? But as for the Church itself: If you don't believe the Church has the true gospel that still changes nothing. Either the gospel in the Church is true and when you reject it then you reject God or it is false then rejecting it doesn't reject God. That's why determining God's will is paramount over any personal inclinations. If the Church has the gospel and you decide it is false when it isn't you are still rejecting God. If the Church doesn't have the gospel and you stay then you really should be looking for God's actual truth. But you cannot reject the true gospel and accept God. If the Church has it, accepting the Church is mandatory to accepting God.
sethpayne Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) To illustrate the spreading of the common falsehood that Mormonism is not a Christian faith? But that wasn't your claim. You claimed that critics accuse us of not following Jesus. You said nothing of the larger overarching criticism that Mormons aren't' Christian. Cal provided some excellent examples of some folks online saying that we do not follow Christ. But I'd still love to see some of the specific examples you had in mind given board rules. I'm just glad that the EV/Christian critics I have discussed this with acknowledge that Mormons do *follow* Jesus and that this is precisely the problem -- salvation through works etc... But as Cal demonstrated, there are some dishonest nuts out there. Heck, even Ed Decker acknowledges Mormons try to do the works of Jesus -- again, this being the very issue he's attacking. Edited July 19, 2015 by sethpayne
Teancum Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 There is only one path to God. How you find that path may require a circuitous route throughout your life, but the path is single, constant, and unchanging.So yes, people who reject the true Gospel reject God. How could it be otherwise? But as for the Church itself: If you don't believe the Church has the true gospel that still changes nothing. Either the gospel in the Church is true and when you reject it then you reject God or it is false then rejecting it doesn't reject God. That's why determining God's will is paramount over any personal inclinations. If the Church has the gospel and you decide it is false when it isn't you are still rejecting God. If the Church doesn't have the gospel and you stay then you really should be looking for God's actual truth. But you cannot reject the true gospel and accept God. If the Church has it, accepting the Church is mandatory to accepting God.Hate to break it to you but if there is one true gospel it is not held in the LDS church, Think about it! Really! Try to get your head around it, A church that has been around for 185 years with 15 million members that maybe 35-40% active. For 1830 years Gods true church was only around a few years and then was lost? Really? How pausible is this?No my friend the church is not likely the one true gospel and more likely than not such a thing just does not exist. 2
sethpayne Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 But you cannot reject the true gospel and accept God. If the Church has it, accepting the Church is mandatory to accepting God. Nonsense. I have plenty of Catholic, Protestant, and EV friends who accept God and are more faithful than many LDS I know.
Avatar4321 Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Oh please. Get a life dude. Here is an example of the toxic nature is this board,I dont think the board is toxic at all.
JLHPROF Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Nonsense. I have plenty of Catholic, Protestant, and EV friends who accept God and are more faithful than many LDS I know. Sorry, but no. They may be completely faithful to their beliefs, but by rejecting the true gospel they also reject the God that gave it. Hate to break it to you but if there is one true gospel it is not held in the LDS church, Think about it! Really! Try to get your head around it, A church that has been around for 185 years with 15 million members that maybe 35-40% active. For 1830 years Gods true church was only around a few years and then was lost? Really? How pausible is this?No my friend the church is not likely the one true gospel and more likely than not such a thing just does not exist. The gospel has been around since man was first on the earth. About that you are completely correct. It just happens to reside in the LDS Church today and therefore different gospels are invalid. Think about it like this. If the gospel leads to an entrance, a gateway, back to God. You can take any path you like to find the entrance. That is the searching and various routes in life we all follow. But sooner or later we ALL have to use the same entrance to God's presence. Nobody gets in by sneaking over the back wall, digging a tunnel, or dropping through the skylight by parachute. Finding God's kingdom can follow many paths for individuals, but entering it requires a single path. The "Church" as founded in 1830 is not the true gospel and never was. But the true gospel happens to only be currently available in the "Church" that was founded in 1830. It existed before the Church. It will exist after the Church is dissolved, but its current location is only in the Church. How plausible is it that God exists, doesn't care which Church we follow or which practices we adopt. That's the old indifferent God belief which renders all religion pointless and serves no purpose any differently from atheism. If the gospel doesn't exist then there is no point in accepting the existence of God either. 4
Kenngo1969 Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I doubt she will be surprised given she has been working as an international women's rights lawyer for sometime now iirc, she could hardly remain oblivous in that case.Feminism that stands up against (forgive me for bringing this up! ) such things as female genital mutilation, subjugation to the point, essentially, of slavery, women existing merely to sate the physical appetites of men, and so on, is one thing; she would have a hard time making the case to anyone who experienced horrors such as those that anything experienced by women by virtue of their membership in the Church of Jesus Christ is in any way comparable.
Kenngo1969 Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) There is only one path to God. ... Here's how I approach the paths-to-God dilemma: Even if there's only one path that leads all the way back to God, there are many paths that lead partway there, and there are even some that lead most of the way there. Our job, whether we're Mormon or Catholic or Lutheran or Baptist or Buddhist or Hindu or whatever else, is to do the best we can to respond to whatever light we've been given. If someone does that, I don't think God will say, "Ooooh, so sorry! You were mostly wrong; here's what you should've done instead." Rather, I think he will say, "Congratulations! You were mostly right: here are some other things you'll want to consider." Edited July 19, 2015 by Kenngo1969 1
Teancum Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Nonsense. I have plenty of Catholic, Protestant, and EV friends who accept God and are more faithful than many LDS I know.Ahhhhhhhh....but they are following a false gospel don't you know?
Teancum Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I dont think the board is toxic at all.Oh really? Ok. Well I find it so and there are a number here who I think are incredibly toxic. You can guess who I think they are,
BookofMormonLuvr Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Sorry, but no. They may be completely faithful to their beliefs, but by rejecting the true gospel they also reject the God that gave it. The gospel has been around since man was first on the earth. About that you are completely correct. It just happens to reside in the LDS Church today and therefore different gospels are invalid. Think about it like this. If the gospel leads to an entrance, a gateway, back to God. You can take any path you like to find the entrance. That is the searching and various routes in life we all follow. But sooner or later we ALL have to use the same entrance to God's presence. Nobody gets in by sneaking over the back wall, digging a tunnel, or dropping through the skylight by parachute. Finding God's kingdom can follow many paths for individuals, but entering it requires a single path. The "Church" as founded in 1830 is not the true gospel and never was. But the true gospel happens to only be currently available in the "Church" that was founded in 1830. It existed before the Church. It will exist after the Church is dissolved, but its current location is only in the Church. How plausible is it that God exists, doesn't care which Church we follow or which practices we adopt. That's the old indifferent God belief which renders all religion pointless and serves no purpose any differently from atheism. If the gospel doesn't exist then there is no point in accepting the existence of God either.None of us have it right. To claim we are the one true church and all else are invalid, when we don't follow the very things that should make us unique is ridiculous. If someone was to read the D&C would they recognize us as the people that follow that book? We are shockingly disobedient, then we fain to walk around telling everyone how we are God's only chosen people?! Insanity 2
mormonnewb Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 This is my biggest problem (for lack of a better term) with KK. "Accuse and Shame" really does seem to be her rally cry when she doesn't get her way.Yeah, I wonder where you got that "my way or the highway" mentality. Perhaps, growing up in the "one true church," you know, the only church that isn't an abomination in the sight of God. Perhaps, that is why she thinks of other feminists as being counterfeits (much like Elder Perry described families headed by gay and single parents as "counterfeits"). So do you have a problem (for lack of a better term) with the Brethren?
Teancum Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Sorry, but no. They may be completely faithful to their beliefs, but by rejecting the true gospel they also reject the God that gave it.The gospel has been around since man was first on the earth. About that you are completely correct. It just happens to reside in the LDS Church today and therefore different gospels are invalid. Think about it like this. If the gospel leads to an entrance, a gateway, back to God. You can take any path you like to find the entrance. That is the searching and various routes in life we all follow. But sooner or later we ALL have to use the same entrance to God's presence. Nobody gets in by sneaking over the back wall, digging a tunnel, or dropping through the skylight by parachute. Finding God's kingdom can follow many paths for individuals, but entering it requires a single path.The "Church" as founded in 1830 is not the true gospel and never was. But the true gospel happens to only be currently available in the "Church" that was founded in 1830. It existed before the Church. It will exist after the Church is dissolved, but its current location is only in the Church.How plausible is it that God exists, doesn't care which Church we follow or which practices we adopt. That's the old indifferent God belief which renders all religion pointless and serves no purpose any differently from atheism. If the gospel doesn't exist then there is no point in accepting the existence of God either.My very quick take...there is no one true gospel and there never has been.You ask about plausible issues? How plain is it that God, if there is a God, has been so horrible bad about communicating to his creation just what truth is? There are so many religions and ways humans attempt to connect to the divine and has been since humans were self aware enough to ask about such things. Many Gods humans used to worship have dies on the ash heap of progression. If God is there and this God has one truth he has done an absolutely horrible in communicating it to his creation . Edited July 19, 2015 by Teancum
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