rpn Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) I think if I ran a bakery, I might decline to sell or use a same sex couple cake topper. I might also post my pro man-woman marriage opinion inside my store. But I cannot see any way to argue that my LDS faith, and its teachings about man-woman marriage requires me to refuse to bake a cake, or sell flowers to someone, or photograph the wedding. Would it matter if you were not just selling the cake or flowers but also delivering it to the venue? If anyone else sees it differently, what in LDS doctrine would compel or suggest that refusal was inherent in LDS faith and official position on same sex marriage, and required by it. Edited July 2, 2015 by rpn 1
Storm Rider Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 The teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ does not compel a member that is also a retailer to refuse service to anyone. However, an individual may or may not choose to serve every potential customer that walks in the door. It depends on the position of the individual and how they perceive their own sense of right and wrong.
Alan Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 I wouldn't bake a SSM celebration cake.Neither would I bake a cake in support of Charlie Hebdo's ridicule of Mohammed. Nor a cake promoting white supremacy; or a cake with a Swastika on it for an anti-Semetic political rally munch and mingle.
Storm Rider Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Is your choice to not bake these cakes because the Church compels you to make such a choice or is it your own choice?
The Nehor Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Is your choice to not bake these cakes because the Church compels you to make such a choice or is it your own choice? 1
Alan Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Is it my choice?Of course.Do I make that choice because of what I believe about the gospel?Of course.
Popular Post bluebell Posted July 2, 2015 Popular Post Posted July 2, 2015 The title of the thread and the question in the poll are two different questions in my opinion. I do not believe that LDS doctrine compels people to refuse to bake a cake, but i do believe that LDS members can legitimately refuse to bake a cake depending on their personal beliefs about the action. 5
strappinglad Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Can one claim conscientious objector status for the military without a religious background? If so , that is what must be done when refusing to bake a cake. I don't think that one could refuse on the grounds that the LDS faith prohibits doing so. Have the Brethren called for all members to resist in every way the idea of SSM ? Not that I have heard.
thesometimesaint Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 If your open to the public business practice is to bake wedding cakes, or what ever, then you are and should be required to bake cakes, or provide whatever service, for all that choose to buy them. OTOH as a private citizen not involved in the business of say baking wedding cakes. There is no power one earth than can or should require you to bake any cake for anyone you don't want to. The key is the Public Accommodations Laws. Moreover in connection with LDS doctrine to discriminate on the basis or race, creed, color, national origin, religion sex, and sexual orientation in the public sphere is offensive and unbecoming of any LDS.
filovirus Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 In the end, it us each one of us individually who must give an accounting for all of the decisions we made during our stay on Earth. Should we watch TV on Sunday?Is tithing gross, net, or leftover?Is baking a cake for a gay wedding OK? We must choose according to our conscious and the light and knowledge we have received on the matter. There is no LDS doctrine saying you must or must not bake a cake.
Jacob Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 The Church has been clear that we should respect the individuals. It is my opinion that a refusal would not be a good thing. Baking a cake is not showing support for the practice it is showing love and caring for the individuals. I believe that members need to mend the relationship between those individuals and the Church. The hurt feelings and animosity that I see in this and other non-member relationships are due to members of the Church treating people outside the Church negatively. If members want to increase the effectiveness of spreading the Gospel, they need to be, and even just come across as, more loving and less judgmental of those who do not believe as they do. Refusing to bake a cake is not a good way to display the behavior and character of the Church imo.
KevinG Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 I voted yes. But there is nothing about being LDS that prevents anyone from being a bigoted jerk. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 The title of the thread and the question in the poll are two different questions in my opinion. I do not believe that LDS doctrine compels people to refuse to bake a cake, but i do believe that LDS members can legitimately refuse to bake a cake depending on their personal beliefs about the action.I noticed that too. The thread title was poorly worded if it is meant to reflect the question posed in the OP.
Robert F. Smith Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 I wouldn't bake a SSM celebration cake.Neither would I bake a cake in support of Charlie Hebdo's ridicule of Mohammed. Nor a cake promoting white supremacy; or a cake with a Swastika on it for an anti-Semetic political rally munch and mingle.O.K., Alan, but would you bake a cake for a Fundamentalist Mormon plural wedding?
KevinG Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 The deeper question for Mormons is "would you bake a cake if the recipe called for a little bit of poop?" 1
KevinG Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 O.K., Alan, but would you bake a cake for a Fundamentalist Mormon plural wedding? Multiple cupcakes would be more appropriate. Just sayin' 2
Robert F. Smith Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 The title of the thread and the question in the poll are two different questions in my opinion. I do not believe that LDS doctrine compels people to refuse to bake a cake, but i do believe that LDS members can legitimately refuse to bake a cake depending on their personal beliefs about the action.And yet the LDS Church has officially supported legislation in Utah which prohibits anti-gay discrimination in housing, employment, etc. So, would a good LDS member feel comfortable renting to, or employing a homosexual? Or a Samaritan? Or an African-American? Or a polygynist? Should we allow them to live among us? Who is "us," and who is "them." 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Can one claim conscientious objector status for the military without a religious background? If so , that is what must be done when refusing to bake a cake. I don't think that one could refuse on the grounds that the LDS faith prohibits doing so. Have the Brethren called for all members to resist in every way the idea of SSM ? Not that I have heard.Neither have they forbidden it. It's a matter of exercising good sense as well as holding fast to our principles. It's like political party affiliation. TJ e Church itself does not endorse any party, but members are to be guided by their faith and principles in deciding for themselves.
Scott Lloyd Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 The Church has been clear that we should respect the individuals. It is my opinion that a refusal would not be a good thing. Baking a cake is not showing support for the practice it is showing love and caring for the individuals. I believe that members need to mend the relationship between those individuals and the Church. The hurt feelings and animosity that I see in this and other non-member relationships are due to members of the Church treating people outside the Church negatively. If members want to increase the effectiveness of spreading the Gospel, they need to be, and even just come across as, more loving and less judgmental of those who do not believe as they do. Refusing to bake a cake is not a good way to display the behavior and character of the Church imo.your post appears to bind all Church members to one course of action, baking the cake. I can't accept that any more than I can accept assertions that you can't be a good Mormon while being a Democrat.
Duncan Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) No offense but you need to go to Law School to figure out the question!!! here's a statement I never thought i'd ever in my life use but cakes are non sexual so I don't see how baking one is bad, a wedding is a wedding is a wedding Luke 16:9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; Edited July 2, 2015 by Duncan 2
Scott Lloyd Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 And yet the LDS Church has officially supported legislation in Utah which prohibits anti-gay discrimination in housing, employment, etc. So, would a good LDS member feel comfortable renting to, or employing a homosexual? Or a Samaritan? Or an African-American? Or a polygynist? Should we allow them to live among us? Who is "us," and who is "them."And yet the LDS Church has officially supported legislation in Utah which prohibits anti-gay discrimination in housing, employment, etc. So, would a good LDS member feel comfortable renting to, or employing a homosexual? Or a Samaritan? Or an African-American? Or a polygynist? Should we allow them to live among us? Who is "us," and who is "them."And yet the LDS Church has officially supported legislation in Utah which prohibits anti-gay discrimination in housing, employment, etc. So, would a good LDS member feel comfortable renting to, or employing a homosexual? Or a Samaritan? Or an African-American? Or a polygynist? Should we allow them to live among us? Who is "us," and who is "them."the Church's endorsement is not absolute. It leaves open some leeway in individual circumstances such as renting a room to someone inside one's own domicile. That's how I understand it, anyway. I could be wrong.
Jacob Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 O.K., Alan, but would you bake a cake for a Fundamentalist Mormon plural wedding?Or would you bake a cake for a party where the company ordering it, and having their name/logo on it, was an alcohol producing organization?
Jacob Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 your post appears to bind all Church members to one course of action, baking the cake. I can't accept that any more than I can accept assertions that you can't be a good Mormon while being a Democrat.I'm just saying that members of the Church tend to be unable to treat people who do not believe as they do with a proper level of respect when that person's personal beliefs are in conflict with the Church's position. Due to this, non-LDS tend to have hard feelings towards the Church because of the members. To further the Church's agenda of proselytizing those who do not believe, the members of the Church should do what they can to improve the general view of non-LDS of the LDS Church. Baking a cake for a SSM does not imply that the person baking the cake supports SSM, it implies that the member is willing to interact in an acceptably friendly and congenial manner with someone whose beliefs conflict with their own, showing love and compassion.
Duncan Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Or would you bake a cake for a party where the company ordering it, and having their name/logo on it, was an alcohol producing organization? alcohol producing organization? you mean like Miller Lite? if they or Molson Canadian wants a cake I doubt they'd go a small time baker, they'd go to a costco or that guy in New Jersey, Alfie or Pal or Stumpie or whatever his name is
KevinG Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Or would you bake a cake for a party where the company ordering it, and having their name/logo on it, was an alcohol producing organization? I have far too much on my plate to get offended about what others (who do not believe as I do) choose to put on their cakes. I find the efforts of those who seek to restrict bakers from producing privately purchased cakes with the confederate battle emblem, two grooms, or the reportedly satanic Harry Potter to be on the order of the scribes and pharisees Christ labeled whited sepulchers. 1
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