Why Do We Care Who Thinks We Are "faithful?"

[6EQUJ5]

I have found the "Scotsman" thread to be interesting.  But I remain puzzled by one thing.  Why do any of us care who does or does not define us as "faithful?"

 

There are only three people in the world I'm concerned with when it comes to how they see my "faithfulness."  1) God, 2) me, 3) my spouse.

 

I certainly don't give a whit what someone online thinks and I'm not even concerned about what my ward members think.  The only time I care if my Bishop or SP think I'm faithful is when I go in for a TR.

 

Why all the fuss?  Seems like much ado about nothing.

 

Q

 

 

[Paddy]

People love arguing about who is the greatest in the kingdom - Matt 18:1??!!!

[Rivers]

We are supposed to let our light so shine for all the word.

[ALarson]

I have found the "Scotsman" thread to be interesting.  But I remain puzzled by one thing.  Why do any of us care who does or does not define us as "faithful?"

 

There are only three people in the world I'm concerned with when it comes to how they see my "faithfulness."  1) God, 2) me, 3) my spouse.

Yup, I agree.

 

But these 2 words cause a lot of finger pointing and judging: "faithful" & "worthy".

[JAHS]

You forgot #4 - my children.  

When people know we are faithful, whether we deserve it or not, we tend to get more respect and recognition when it comes to gospel knowledge and strength of testimony... or so we think.  We are given greater responsibilities  with regards to church callings, etc. This all serves to feed our egos which makes us feel good about ourselves.  But we can let our light shine by our actions. If we "do what is right let the consequence follow",  we don't need to worry about what others think.

[Uncle Dale]

I have found the "Scotsman" thread to be interesting.  But I remain puzzled by one thing.  Why do any of us care who does or does not define us as "faithful?"

 

There are only three people in the world I'm concerned with when it comes to how they see my "faithfulness."  1) God, 2) me, 3) my spouse.

 

I certainly don't give a whit what someone online thinks and I'm not even concerned about what my ward members think.  The only time I care if my Bishop or SP think I'm faithful is when I go in for a TR.

 

Why all the fuss?  Seems like much ado about nothing.

 

Q

 

Well, suppose I come to your used car lot, to buy a

five-year-old Toyota, and you are the guy in the loud

checkered sports jacket who tells me that it was only

driven fifty miles a week by an old lady, and is an

absolute steal at $12,000 -----

 

If you have a reputation for being faithful to your promises

and professions, I might be a little more trusting, than if

you are known as "that Mormon fellow" who sneaks cigarettes

and cans of beer on his lunch hour.

 

Right?

 

UD'

[The Nehor]

Because a few humans want intimacy and are trying to make people see who they really are.

A few are trying to hide who they really are.

Most are trying to do both at the same time.

Edited May 5, 2015 by The Nehor

[6EQUJ5]

Well, suppose I come to your used car lot, to buy a

five-year-old Toyota, and you are the guy in the loud

checkered sports jacket who tells me that it was only

driven fifty miles a week by an old lady, and is an

absolute steal at $12,000 -----

 

If you have a reputation for being faithful to your promises

and professions, I might be a little more trusting, than if

you are known as "that Mormon fellow" who sneaks cigarettes

and cans of beer on his lunch hour.

 

Right?

 

UD'

 

 

Hmmm.... I suppose this may be the case if I wanted something from you.  But I just want to sit in the pews, do my home teaching, and go to the temple.  So why would you care then?  I'm guessing you wouldn't.  And I think there is a distinction between someone promoting this, that, or the other, and someone who just goes about their own business.

 

Q

[Teancum]

I have found the "Scotsman" thread to be interesting.  But I remain puzzled by one thing.  Why do any of us care who does or does not define us as "faithful?"

 

There are only three people in the world I'm concerned with when it comes to how they see my "faithfulness."  1) God, 2) me, 3) my spouse.

 

I certainly don't give a whit what someone online thinks and I'm not even concerned about what my ward members think.  The only time I care if my Bishop or SP think I'm faithful is when I go in for a TR.

 

Why all the fuss?  Seems like much ado about nothing.

 

Q

Yes I agree. Your approach is very healthy. Ultimately this board is just sheer entertainment.

[Brian 2.0]

Yes I agree. Your approach is very healthy. Ultimately this board is just sheer entertainment.

 

Agreed.

 

Speaking for myself... sometimes this board simply satisfies the odd need I have to engage in debate.  The topic doesn't matter as much as the idea of volleying arguments back and forth, sniffing out internal inconsistencies in a theory, speculating on the unknowable.  It's fun.  And sometimes you learn something new.

 

A great argument could be made for putting the brain power and time spent towards something a lot more fruitful.  But it's better than clicking around for porn.  Sometimes.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Brian 2.0

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I love the old "Mormon Motto":

"Mind Your Own Business."

[JLHPROF]

I agree.  Sometimes I get tired of defending what I believe/don't believe.  Religion is personal.  My Bishop & SP are placed in a position to evaluate my worthiness for sacred blessings -and I am fine with that.  Nobody else, either within the Church or without gets to weigh in on my "faithfulness".

[Russell C McGregor]

I have found the "Scotsman" thread to be interesting.  But I remain puzzled by one thing.  Why do any of us care who does or does not define us as "faithful?"

 

There are only three people in the world I'm concerned with when it comes to how they see my "faithfulness."  1) God, 2) me, 3) my spouse.

 

I certainly don't give a whit what someone online thinks and I'm not even concerned about what my ward members think.  The only time I care if my Bishop or SP think I'm faithful is when I go in for a TR.

 

Why all the fuss?  Seems like much ado about nothing.

 

Q

And that's just fine.

But then you aren't preaching apostate doctrine on the one hand, and trying to leverage off your claimed status as an active Mormon in order to market your views as representative of some kind of growing Mormon consensus on the other.

And doing it under cover of internet anonymity so that nobody can check up on your claims.

So that the only way to test your claims is to compare your professed views with what is normative for faithful, believing Latter-day Saints.

[Tacenda]

Because a few humans want intimacy and are trying to make people see who they really are.

A few are trying to hide who they really are.

Most are trying to do both at the same time.

I love how ALarsen posted our baptismal covenants in the LDS church on another thread, I was able to answer yes to each one! But for some reason I have to believe JS was a true prophet too? When did that one come up in the covenants? I'll answer that, it was much, much later, and now my faith is supposedly dependent on that for crying out loud. The TR is not what I signed up for at my baptism, and now that simple faith is in question when it comes to the temple or being a so called TBM. Edited May 5, 2015 by Tacenda

[The Nehor]

I love how ALarsen posted our baptismal covenants in the LDS church on another thread, I was able to answer yes to each one! But for some reason I have to believe JS was a true prophet too? When did that one come up in the covenants? I'll answer that, it was much, much later, and now my faith is supposedly dependent on that for crying out loud. The TR is not what I signed up for at my baptism, and now that simple faith is in question when it comes to the temple or being a so called TBM.

 

If Joseph was not a prophet then the whole Priesthood line by which you made the baptismal covenant is invalid. There is no point in the temple either if Joseph was not a prophet and received the keys necessary to make temple covenants.

[JLHPROF]

If Joseph was not a prophet then the whole Priesthood line by which you made the baptismal covenant is invalid. There is no point in the temple either if Joseph was not a prophet and received the keys necessary to make temple covenants.

 

Not to mention the Baptismal ceremony, the temple ceremony, and the connected sealing ceremonies were revealed by/through Joseph Smith.

Without Joseph Smith we might as well be sprinkling each other without any authority, get married till death do we part, and toss out the endowment completely.  We might as well go back to the protestant beliefs that were already on the earth before Joseph went into the grove.

 

No, accepting Joseph as prophet is vital.  And a temple recommend should not be given to anyone who doesn't.  They may be clean/pure (aka worthy) enough to merit one, but to allow them to partake in ordinances that they doubt the revelator who gave them seems a little sacrilegious.

[mfbukowski]

Well, suppose I come to your used car lot, to buy a

five-year-old Toyota, and you are the guy in the loud

checkered sports jacket who tells me that it was only

driven fifty miles a week by an old lady, and is an

absolute steal at $12,000 -----

 

If you have a reputation for being faithful to your promises

and professions, I might be a little more trusting, than if

you are known as "that Mormon fellow" who sneaks cigarettes

and cans of beer on his lunch hour.

 

Right?

 

UD'

There is a reason the Better Business Bureau exists, not to mention FICO scores

 

It would be a little odd to have a stake president who had three mistresses and was drunk every night

Edited May 5, 2015 by mfbukowski

[Tacenda]

If Joseph was not a prophet then the whole Priesthood line by which you made the baptismal covenant is invalid. There is no point in the temple either if Joseph was not a prophet and received the keys necessary to make temple covenants.

Absolutely zero of that is in the baptismal covenant. Just like the temple, they never tell you until after you go into the temple and sit down and agree to stay and proceed, of the promises you are to make. At my baptism no one mentions temple covenants. Faith should feel right, none of this feels right. So I have to fake it, to be accepted or to not cause harm. Such is life, thanks JS.

[The Nehor]

There is a reason the Better Business Bureau exists, not to mention FICO scores

 

The best credibility money can buy.

[mfbukowski]

Hmmm.... I suppose this may be the case if I wanted something from you.  But I just want to sit in the pews, do my home teaching, and go to the temple.  So why would you care then?  I'm guessing you wouldn't.  And I think there is a distinction between someone promoting this, that, or the other, and someone who just goes about their own business.

 

Q

I think you should send me your tithing instead of giving it to your bishop.   I mean who really cares, right?

[The Nehor]

Absolutely zero of that is in the baptismal covenant. Just like the temple, they never tell you until after you go into the temple and sit down and agree to stay and proceed, of the promises you are to make. At my baptism no one mentions temple covenants. Faith should feel right, none of this feels right. So I have to fake it, to be accepted or to not cause harm. Such is life, thanks JS.

 

What I am saying is that the baptismal covenant is worth absolutely zero without it. If you do not believe Joseph Smith was a prophet why do you think the baptismal covenant has validity?

 

I am not sure why you are blaming Joseph either.

[mfbukowski]

Absolutely zero of that is in the baptismal covenant. Just like the temple, they never tell you until after you go into the temple and sit down and agree to stay and proceed, of the promises you are to make. At my baptism no one mentions temple covenants. Faith should feel right, none of this feels right. So I have to fake it, to be accepted or to not cause harm. Such is life, thanks JS.

It is none of my business but if possible I would advise you to reconsider living a lie.

 

Your life will be much happier when you stop.  It is worth more than it appears to be now.

[mfbukowski]

What I am saying is that the baptismal covenant is worth absolutely zero without it. If you do not believe Joseph Smith was a prophet why do you think the baptismal covenant has validity?

 

I am not sure why you are blaming Joseph either.

It makes it easier to not accept responsibility.

[Calm]

Such is life, thanks JS.

As long as you blame others and put the responsibility on others and don't do something because you fear others, you can never change yourself or your life.

 

Do you really want to live that life you are bemoaning all the time for the next 40-50 years?  When it is time for you to die and you look at your life, are you going to think of all you didn't do out of fear or rejoice in what you did do?

 

I see that several of us have the same idea.

 

add-on:  my daughter has lived a life crippled by anxiety since she turned 12, she is finally accepting responsiblity for it and has come to realize that she loves her life.  And even though the anxiety is still huge, since she accepted she controled it and it didn't control her, the positive focus has pushed her out of her cocoon and she is even getting her learner's permit and driving...which was unthinkable just three months ago (she's 24)and she started a conversation with the cashier today when I spaced out, something that always made her squirm when myself or her dad do it.

 

The situation is different in a way since she is being supported and you see yourself as likely being attacked, however, her feelings underneath it all are much the same way due to her anxiety.  The only way she is proving to herself it doesn't matter is to do it...and at this point she is getting to a place where she accepts support, but doesn't need it or fear the rejection.  It is too important for her self respect to let her fear rule her anymore.  And she refuses to look back at the last 12 years and resent all those lost opportunities...junior high, high school, college....all those friends and fun activities she never got to have because of her fear....to sit around and moan about how much her life sucks because life didn't turn out the way she thought it was going to and instead she got hit with such a shock wave just when she was most vulnerable that she only now being able to pick herself up again 12 years later.  Instead she is telling herself the truth...she learned a lot of things in those 12 years many people never got the opportunity to do, she is a great person and she loves her family so what is there really to regret as long as she gets to leave the fear behind and take teh good things with her as she moves ahead?

 

And to give just a little bit of hope...as long as she was approaching it from being afraid of being afraid, gritting her teeth and doing something just made it worst, deepened and embedded the anxiety.  However, now that she is approaching it from 'it is her choice how to react to her reactions', gritting her teeth and doing it is making so it is easier each time.  She was even pushing today for me to let her drive through rush hour on unfamiliar roads and it was only my anxiety that couldn't handle it (I haven't have a chance to drive with her as all so I need to do it on easier roads so I know when I need to give advice and when to keep my mouth shut and not knowing is enough to trigger my anxiety, always not to below the surface when I am in the car).

Edited May 5, 2015 by calmoriah

[Tacenda]

It makes it easier to not accept responsibility.

I always seem to make threads all about me. I won't give a long answer to your saying I don't accept responsibility. I will just say to put yourself in mine and others shoes and imagine for a moment what would happen in your ward, your social circles and possibly your job if you came out as a disbelieving LDS. Now tell me how that responsibility is on you when it is they who react in disappointment and mistrust etc. Each of these scenarios is mine. It could affect my family, my job & my ward.