Reverence In The Chapel...i Feel Like A Fossil

[willie]

Reverence in the chapel the before Sacrament meeting. Quiet prayer and preparation when I enter the chapel before the Sacrament meeting. I believe in both of these staements. Yet, I feel that perhaps my beliefs have become old and outdated. I feel like reverence has become, like myself, a fossil of another era long past. Before I go any further, I am not talking about children. I am talking about the adults. I am concerned about the example we are showing our children.

 

I am a convert to the church. I joined 10+ years ago. During the years before I joined I regularly attended my church. I was taught at an early age to sit quietly in my pew and listen to the music and prepare myself for the service. Later, as an adult, I continued to be reverent before the services.

 

A few observations and questions....

 

• Why is it considered OK to talk to other people during the prelude music? In the fall I never have to watch a BYU football game on Saturday....I know I will hear about all the triumphs and failures the team had from people sitting close to me.
• Searching LDS.com on the topic of reverence I can find numerous artlicles telling the member to be quiet and reverent.
•  

[Calm]

Talk to your bishop about your concerns.

[ERayR]

 

Reverence in the chapel the before Sacrament meeting. Quiet prayer and preparation when I enter the chapel before the Sacrament meeting. I believe in both of these staements. Yet, I feel that perhaps my beliefs have become old and outdated. I feel like reverence has become, like myself, a fossil of another era long past. Before I go any further, I am not talking about children. I am talking about the adults. I am concerned about the example we are showing our children.

 

I am a convert to the church. I joined 10+ years ago. During the years before I joined I regularly attended my church. I was taught at an early age to sit quietly in my pew and listen to the music and prepare myself for the service. Later, as an adult, I continued to be reverent before the services.

 

A few observations and questions....

 

• Why is it considered OK to talk to other people during the prelude music? In the fall I never have to watch a BYU football game on Saturday....I know I will hear about all the triumphs and failures the team had from people sitting close to me.
• Searching LDS.com on the topic of reverence I can find numerous artlicles telling the member to be quiet and reverent.
•  

 

 

That is certainly the ideal.  Cal's suggestion is certainly a very good one.

[willie]

I have. I fact I have spoken to all 5 of them over the years. They just tell me that "Yes, we should be more reverent, but that we are a sociable people." Then nothing happens.

 

I believe that the chapel is a sacred place, just as sacred as the Temple. Why do we respect Heavenly Father in the Temple and not the chapel? In the LDS.com article "Reverence for Sacred Places" it says we should treat the chapel as we treat the Temple.

 

A few years ago we had a Stake Conference and Elder Bednar was in attendance. He commented to the Stake Presidencly that he was disturbed by all of the talking that went on before the meeting during the prelude music. Nothing changed in the weeks after that and the talking and socializing continues to this day.

 

Have we forgotten that the chapel is also a "House of the Lord"?

[Duncan]

I felt like that at school, at work etc. just part of society I guess. Mind you you should have sat next to my son in church when he was a toddler, then you would have heard noise!!! or now sitting next to my sister and her three little man scream team-One time the boys were playing dinosaurs in church and one of them was screaming at the top of his lungs, whilst his daddy was taking him out, "I want to be the meat-eater, I want to be the meat eater!!!!!!!" 

[bluebell]

I admit that i lament the lack of reverence before sacrament meeting as well, even while i know that most of the time i am not doing much to help the ward be more reverent.  For myself, it really is that most of the time i forget what i'm doing.  I have four kids (two who are still technically babies) and just getting everyone into the chapel with all the baby bags, car seats, coats, scriptures, tithing envelopes and my stuff i use for singing time in primary takes so much of my mental energy that we are saying the opening prayer before i have a second to actually think about where we are.  And this is what happens when we get there with a few minutes to spare and isn't even an issue of being late!

 

I would guess that most other adults are the same way.  So caught up with just getting to sacrament that once there it takes them a few minutes to settle into where they actually are, and by then, sacrament has started.

 

I wish that we could have dim lights before sacrament meeting started, because dim lights usually signal to our brains that we need to speak more quietly and not run around like crazy people.   I think some kind of visual cue could really help me to remember where i am right when i walk in the chapel doors instead of becoming aware when the opening hymn starts.  

 

I feel for bishops who have wards who struggle with this because outside of just getting 'in your face' about it (which i'm guessing no bishop wants to do) there is not much besides constant reminders that they can do to force us to be reverent.

 

Edit to add-i think part of the reason that we are more reverent in the temple is because we go without being encumbered by things of the world.  By that i mean we go with a small bag, if that, and without a list of everything we have to get done or in place before the meeting starts.  Plus, we have time in the dressing room to focus on what we are doing, and to center ourselves before we begin much else.  

Edited January 21, 2015 by bluebell

[Mystery Meat]

I have. I fact I have spoken to all 5 of them over the years. They just tell me that "Yes, we should be more reverent, but that we are a sociable people." Then nothing happens.

 

I believe that the chapel is a sacred place, just as sacred as the Temple. Why do we respect Heavenly Father in the Temple and not the chapel? In the LDS.com article "Reverence for Sacred Places" it says we should treat the chapel as we treat the Temple.

 

A few years ago we had a Stake Conference and Elder Bednar was in attendance. He commented to the Stake Presidencly that he was disturbed by all of the talking that went on before the meeting during the prelude music. Nothing changed in the weeks after that and the talking and socializing continues to this day.

 

Have we forgotten that the chapel is also a "House of the Lord"?

 

I know of leaders who have stressed it. While there was gradual improvement over years of emphasis, many people couldn't less about reverence and seemed indifferent to the effect it was having on those around them who were trying to actually commune and prepare their minds and hearts for the sacred ordinance. I attend a singles ward, so you can imagine how much worse it is there.

 

I think it is one of the worst part about Mormon culture. And yet somehow we think it is okay because we are "socializing" as if somehow we don't have many other opportunities to socialize. Time and place.

[DJBrown]

 

Reverence in the chapel the before Sacrament meeting. Quiet prayer and preparation when I enter the chapel before the Sacrament meeting. I believe in both of these staements. Yet, I feel that perhaps my beliefs have become old and outdated. I feel like reverence has become, like myself, a fossil of another era long past. Before I go any further, I am not talking about children. I am talking about the adults. I am concerned about the example we are showing our children.

 

I am a convert to the church. I joined 10+ years ago. During the years before I joined I regularly attended my church. I was taught at an early age to sit quietly in my pew and listen to the music and prepare myself for the service. Later, as an adult, I continued to be reverent before the services.

 

A few observations and questions....

 

• Why is it considered OK to talk to other people during the prelude music? In the fall I never have to watch a BYU football game on Saturday....I know I will hear about all the triumphs and failures the team had from people sitting close to me.
• Searching LDS.com on the topic of reverence I can find numerous artlicles telling the member to be quiet and reverent.
•  

 

 

This is a big problem.  And it is church-wide.  The brethren have discussed this and their concern about the loss of reverence in our Sacrament Meetings.

 

As a bishopric, we take our seats on the stand 10 minutes before the meeting starts.  That, along with the prelude music, seems to help a bit.  But I really think we are missing the boat here.  I am thinking of standing up during that prelude period and bringing the noise to the attention of those in the chapel.  I don't know that anything else will be effective.

[Duncan]

This is a big problem.  And it is church-wide.  The brethren have discussed this and their concern about the loss of reverence in our Sacrament Meetings.

 

As a bishopric, we take our seats on the stand 10 minutes before the meeting starts.  That, along with the prelude music, seems to help a bit.  But I really think we are missing the boat here.  I am thinking of standing up during that prelude period and bringing the noise to the attention of those in the chapel.  I don't know that anything else will be effective.

 

 

that's the thing, with big wards with lots of kids, kids as we all know are going to do whatever they want to do when they want to do and you try and you try and try to keep them quiet but sometimes to no avail-you take them out and this and that and sometimes there are more people wandering the halls with kids then people in sacrament mtg.

[willie]

Unfortunately, and I love them dearly, our Bishopric is one of the worst offenders. This past week, and this was not an uncommon occurance, they sat there 5 minutes before the service started and talked amongst themselves for 3 1/2 minutes of the 5. Yes, I know i should not have timed them but it just bothered me last Sunday more than most.

Edited January 21, 2015 by willie

[willie]

If all I ever heard during the prelude music was the chatter of little children I would not be that concerned, They are kids. As I said before, I am talking about the adults only.

[Grudunza]

I do my part to keep the reverence during the prelude to Sacrament meeting by often showing up just as it's starting or during the opening hymn. If we all just did that, there would be perfect reverence.

[Grudunza]

If all I ever heard during the prelude music was the chatter of little children I would not be that concerned, They are kids. As I said before, I am talking about the adults only.

I'm curious... If the chatter of children doesn't bother you, why does the chatter of adults? Is there a reason we need absolute silence before Sacrament meeting? Because of the children, we're not going to get that, anyway, so why require that in general? And we certainly don't expect that right after Sacrament. I think expressing some joy and love in meeting with our sisters and brothers can be an expression of the spirit that can help with an appreciation of why we are there and worshipping together. One person's idea of what is "irreverent" is another's of what constitutes love and fellowship.

"Visitors welcome," to our sullen gathering where everyone else might be judging you if you say "hello" to someone and ask how they're feeling today.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Grudunza

[Calm]

 

Have we forgotten that the chapel is also a "House of the Lord"?

It sounds like it is possible that your ward has.

 

My ward does not have the same problem nor have my previous wards save the BYU ones that had more kids under the age of 5 than adults in them (a different type of reverence problem) and one family ward that worked hard and overcame it (two kids would stand up at the front with their arms folded as examples to the other kids for reverence, helped the adults as well).  My sympathies.

[DJBrown]

that's the thing, with big wards with lots of kids, kids as we all know are going to do whatever they want to do when they want to do and you try and you try and try to keep them quiet but sometimes to no avail-you take them out and this and that and sometimes there are more people wandering the halls with kids then people in sacrament mtg.

 

We have a huge ward with 200 primary kids and 100 youth.  I can say that it is clearly the adults that are the primary offenders in the pre-Sacrament Meeting noise in our ward.  

 

Another big problem- our chapel and cultural hall looks like an absolute disaster after our Sacrament meetings.  I am at a loss as to how to teach effectively the concept of fully respecting the church building, especially the chapel.  It really bothers me.

[willie]

Grudunza, little children, especially those under 8 are just that...children. They do not know any better. They do need to be taught...but that is not my point. It is adults.

 

As for the need need for silence and reverence before Sacrament meetings and why? The Prophets and Apostles of our church have told us so...numerous times. I hope you would agree that following their counsel on this would be prudent? Is there anything that one has to tell someone that one could not take them out into the foyer, again as we have beeen told to do, or wait until the end of the service?

 

Also in my opinion, being quiet and reverent before the service is not being "sullen"

[bluebell]

I'm curious... If the chatter of children doesn't bother you, why does the chatter of adults? Is there a reason we need absolute silence before Sacrament meeting? Because of the children, we're not going to get that, anyway, so why require that in general? And we certainly don't expect that right after Sacrament. I think expressing some joy and love in meeting with our sisters and brothers can be an expression of the spirit that can help with an appreciation of why we are there and worshipping together. One person's idea of what is "irreverent" is another's of what constitutes love and fellowship.

"Visitors welcome," to our sullen gathering where everyone else might be judging you if you say "hello" to someone and ask how they're feeling today.

 

We can be reverent without being sullen.  I don't remember ever feeling like the temple is a sullen place, yet reverence prevails in every one i have ever been in.  

[willie]

Well said as always Bluebell.

[Rain]

I too would like a more reverent chapel. Occasionally after conference talks or talks in church on reverence I get my hopes up, but they don't last long.

I think a big part of it is that we want to feel welcoming. So much of church doesn't give that time just to say something to each other. People want others to feel at home and need it for themselves.

The problem they face is when they come in to the chapel and are not sure how to welcome someone and be reverent. Having someone at the door when they come in doesn't cut it for most.

So if someone has a solution for both...

Edited January 21, 2015 by Rain

[CV75]

 

Reverence in the chapel the before Sacrament meeting. Quiet prayer and preparation when I enter the chapel before the Sacrament meeting. I believe in both of these staements. Yet, I feel that perhaps my beliefs have become old and outdated. I feel like reverence has become, like myself, a fossil of another era long past. Before I go any further, I am not talking about children. I am talking about the adults. I am concerned about the example we are showing our children.

 

I am a convert to the church. I joined 10+ years ago. During the years before I joined I regularly attended my church. I was taught at an early age to sit quietly in my pew and listen to the music and prepare myself for the service. Later, as an adult, I continued to be reverent before the services.

 

A few observations and questions....

• Why is it considered OK to talk to other people during the prelude music? In the fall I never have to watch a BYU football game on Saturday....I know I will hear about all the triumphs and failures the team had from people sitting close to me.
• Searching LDS.com on the topic of reverence I can find numerous artlicles telling the member to be quiet and reverent.

I think very few would admit it is OK to talk during the prelude music. The root causes of it are innumerable, but I think it is more because we are “fallen” people than a “social” people!

 

I can only control what I do, and while there are many ways to do so, I can only go so far in influencing what others do. When I am distracted by the behavior of others in my efforts to be reverent and I fail to influence them for the better, I send a silent prayer that I’m doing my best, and trust that I can still receive the Lord’s blessings and reflection on the sacrament at another time, perhaps later the same day.

[DJBrown]

I too would like a more reverent chapel. Occasionally after conference talks or talks in church on reverence I get my hopes up, but they don't last long.

I think a big part of it is that we want to feel welcoming. So much of church doesn't give that time just to say something to each other. People want others to feel at home and need it for themselves.

The problem they face is when they come in to the chapel and are not sure how to welcome someone and be reverent. Having someone at the door when they come in doesn't cut it for most.

So if someone has a solution for both...

 

We have tried to greet people in the middle of the foyer instead of the doorway into the chapel.  I think that helps a bit.

[CA Steve]

I believe the next generation will not have this problem. As I observe today's youth in church, they are all bowing their heads, arms and hands in their laps and are quietly and anxiously engaged in a diligent focus on their cell phones.

[cinepro]

I believe the next generation will not have this problem. As I observe today's youth in church, they are all bowing their heads, arms and hands in their laps and are quietly and anxiously engaged in a diligent focus on their cell phones.

 

Hahahaha!  Post of the year, and it's only January! 

[cinepro]

 

Reverence in the chapel the before Sacrament meeting. Quiet prayer and preparation when I enter the chapel before the Sacrament meeting. I believe in both of these staements. Yet, I feel that perhaps my beliefs have become old and outdated. I feel like reverence has become, like myself, a fossil of another era long past. Before I go any further, I am not talking about children. I am talking about the adults. I am concerned about the example we are showing our children.

 

I am a convert to the church. I joined 10+ years ago. During the years before I joined I regularly attended my church. I was taught at an early age to sit quietly in my pew and listen to the music and prepare myself for the service. Later, as an adult, I continued to be reverent before the services.

 

A few observations and questions....

 

• Why is it considered OK to talk to other people during the prelude music? In the fall I never have to watch a BYU football game on Saturday....I know I will hear about all the triumphs and failures the team had from people sitting close to me.
• Searching LDS.com on the topic of reverence I can find numerous artlicles telling the member to be quiet and reverent.
•  

 

 

A few years back, our SP tried to get the word out for people to be more reverent while in the chapel.  It didn't work.

 

But I, for one, think that is a good thing.  I would much prefer to live in a ward where people are happy to see each other, anxious to talk about yesterday's sporting event or what happened with the family, or whatever else comes up (and hopefully greeting people who may be new or visiting), as opposed to a ward where everyone sits in silence for five minutes before Sacrament meeting while the organist plays a funeral dirge.  For me, the time for quiet introspection and personal spiritual renewal is when I'm alone.

 

Sacrament meeting seems designed to segue people from this "social" state to a more spiritual one.  We start out with a hymn and general announcements, then we get to the Sacrament.  Plenty of time for everyone to settle down and get focused.

 

As a member of the Sunday School Presidency, my pet peeve is the adults who skip Sunday School to hang out in the halls, or conduct presidency meetings in the cultural hall.

Edited January 21, 2015 by cinepro

[willie]

Cinepro, OK, if I understand you I hear you say that talking and socializing during the prelude music is a good thing. What say you about the Prophet telling us to treat the chapel as we would the Temple?

 

As for the prelude music being a dirge..the organist is only allowed to play hymns from our hymnal. I do admit one time I played the prelude music I was tempted to start playing "Smoke on the Water" or the solo part from "Inna Gadda da Vida". I wondered if anyone would have noticed.