Reverence In The Chapel...i Feel Like A Fossil

[The Nehor]

Ugh...can anyone do without the darn devices just or an hour??? Gees!  This is the saddest part to me to hear.  We can complain about noise but at least people are actually talking to each other.  I don't own a cell phone or have anything like this stuff so I just must not understand how it must be so important or habit forming it is.  Doesn't anyone ever just feel ignored?  Maybe God does..I just fail to see what is so important about the next text or anything..it can wait. 

 

I actually read my scriptures a lot in sacrament meeting. You can usually tell in the first few minutes whether a talk is worth listening to. If it starts with an explanation of how they were asked to give a talk or starts with how he or she and their spouse met you can safely tune it out.

[Scott Lloyd]

I would hope and expect that the majority of attendees at LDS Sabbath day meetings are focused on personal spiritual edification and supporting and blessing others who are there rather than fuming inwardly about what individuals are doing with their smartphones or electronic devices. For those who are not, I have three golden words of advice: Get over it.

[Anakin7]

    We used to have 2 Primary children stand with therearms folded on each side of the pulpit as a reverence reminder to everyone. We need to get back that.

 

In His Eternal Debt/Grace

             Anakin7

[The Nehor]

We used to have 2 Primary children stand with therearms folded on each side of the pulpit as a reverence reminder to everyone. We need to get back that.

 

In His Eternal Debt/Grace

             Anakin7

Would probably work better if we put someone like Porter Rockwell on the pulpit wearing a firearm. Once one or two examples are made the problem will solve itself.

[cynth]

With regard to the use of electronic devices, do you explain to your relatives that the Church of Jesus Christ makes available in electronic format on the Internet all of its scriptures and most of its published instructional material, so those who are using electronic devices at church are likely-as-not using them appropriately?

Ok, I'm trying really hard not to laugh here, but no, I do not.  I would have a difficult (or, more accurately, an IMPOSSIBLE) time defending the position that one needs an electronic device in order to follow along with a scripture being read in order to appreciate the use of scripture during a religious service.  Why can't you appreciate the beauty and spirituality found in the spoken word?  The Catholic church also makes all of its scriptural references available online as well, but the sacredness of the religious service is felt and observed not by the electronic device you can access but rather by the condition of your soul and spirit as you partake of the sacred event. 

[Raingirl]

Ok, I'm trying really hard not to laugh here, but no, I do not.  I would have a difficult (or, more accurately, an IMPOSSIBLE) time defending the position that one needs an electronic device in order to follow along with a scripture being read in order to appreciate the use of scripture during a religious service.  Why can't you appreciate the beauty and spirituality found in the spoken word?  The Catholic church also makes all of its scriptural references available online as well, but the sacredness of the religious service is felt and observed not by the electronic device you can access but rather by the condition of your soul and spirit as you partake of the sacred event.

Are you saying by your last sentence that those who use electronic devices to read scripture have some sort of "lesser" condition of their soul and spirit?

[Gray]

Do believe this applies to the temple as well?  That they insist on quiet for quiet's sake and not to revere God and that only old people appreciate quiet anyway?

 

I like the idea of focusing on good sermons.  But i HATE the idea of doing away with personal experience in favor of just reading more scriptures out loud.  I think that would be the death of sacrament meeting talks.  

 

There will never be silence in sacrament meetings as long as children are present. That isn't an issue in endowment sessions. 

[Scott Lloyd]

Ok, I'm trying really hard not to laugh here, but no, I do not.  I would have a difficult (or, more accurately, an IMPOSSIBLE) time defending the position that one needs an electronic device in order to follow along with a scripture being read in order to appreciate the use of scripture during a religious service.  Why can't you appreciate the beauty and spirituality found in the spoken word?  The Catholic church also makes all of its scriptural references available online as well, but the sacredness of the religious service is felt and observed not by the electronic device you can access but rather by the condition of your soul and spirit as you partake of the sacred event. 

Some people find spoken words to have greater impact if one can see them written out while hearing them spoken, thus involving two of the five senses rather than just one. It's a matter of personal preference, I suppose, but it seems as though you would impose your preference on others. That hardly seems fair.

 

And following along with scriptural passages as they are read in a meeting or class is definitely not the only potential use for an electronic device at LDS Sabbath day meetings:

 

• As has already been pointed out here, the Church's hymnal can be accessed and used electronically (both words and musical score).
• Very often, upcoming events and activities in the ward or stake are announced; they can be calendared with the use of an electronic device.
• In a Sunday School or other class, a user of an electronic device can read the topical material being discussed online -- in the scriptures or other instructional material -- and contribute insights to the discussion with authoritative sources he can find in the very moment.
• Sometimes, when a new member of the ward is introduced and he/she says where in the neighborhood his/her family lives, one can quickly access a map of the ward to determine where that is in the ward boundaries as a means of getting to know the new family better and perhaps paying a visit to welcome them.
• With the online app "LDS Tools," one can quickly find who occupies what position in the ward, information that could be very useful while at Church.
• "LDS Tools" affords one the ability of keeping useful lists of, say, the members of a class or group one is called to instruct or lead.
• With "LDS Tools," one can quickly access the ward or stake calendar for information that might be urgently needed at the moment.
• Spiritual and intellectual insights can be recorded in a journal or as an annotation in one's copy of the scriptures by means of an electronic device.
• With today's technology, Church videos, talks, etc., can be streamed from the Internet or downloaded beforehand onto an electronic device, then connected with a television monitor for use as a resource in class instruction. It's even easier if only the audio portion is used as in, say,  a recording of a talk given by a Church leader.

I confess I am having "a difficult (or, more accurately, an IMPOSSIBLE) time" understanding why appropriate use of an electronic device at church should be necessarily seen as detracting from "the sacredness of the religious service" or being harmful to "the condition of your soul and spirit as you partake of the sacred event."

Edited September 29, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[The Nehor]

Are you saying by your last sentence that those who use electronic devices to read scripture have some sort of "lesser" condition of their soul and spirit?

To be fair he is probably right.

[ttribe]

To be fair he is probably right.

 

How do you figure?

[cynth]

Are you saying by your last sentence that those who use electronic devices to read scripture have some sort of "lesser" condition of their soul and spirit?

Of course not, how do you get to that???

[cynth]

Would probably work better if we put someone like Porter Rockwell on the pulpit wearing a firearm. Once one or two examples are made the problem will solve itself.

There you go. Old school pioneer solution! I like it. ; )))

[The Nehor]

How do you figure?

I imagine I would be more attentive without an electronic device. I do not because I want it for if/when I get bored.

[Scott Lloyd]

Of course not, how do you get to that???

Raingirl's question occurred to me as well. Your phrasing "felt and observed not by the electronic device you can access but rather by the condition of your soul and spirit as you partake of the sacred event" seems to imply that using the device while at Church, necessarily hinders the development of one's soul and spirit or hinders one from "partaking of the sacred event."

Edited September 29, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

I imagine I would be more attentive without an electronic device. I do not because I want it for if/when I get bored.

Not everyone is like you.

[cynth]

Some people find spoken words to have greater impact if one can see them written out while hearing them spoken, thus involving two of the five senses rather than just one. It's a matter of personal preference, I suppose, but it seems as though you would impose your preference on others. That hardly seems fair.

 

And following along with scriptural passages as they are read in a meeting or class is definitely not the only potential use for an electronic device at LDS Sabbath day meetings:

 

• As has already been pointed out here, the Church's hymnal can be accessed and used electronically (both words and musical score).
• Very often, upcoming events and activities in the ward or stake are announced; they can be calendared with the use of an electronic device.
• In a Sunday School or other class, a user of an electronic device can read the topical material being discussed online -- in the scriptures or other instructional material -- and contribute insights to the discussion with authoritative sources he can find in the very moment.
• Sometimes, when a new member of the ward is introduced and he/she says where in the neighborhood his/her family lives, one can quickly access a map of the ward to determine where that is in the ward boundaries as a means of getting to know the new family better and perhaps paying a visit to welcome them.
• With the online app "LDS Tools," one can quickly find who occupies what position in the ward, information that could be very useful while at Church.
• "LDS Tools" affords one the ability of keeping useful lists of, say, the members of a class or group one is called to instruct or lead.
• With "LDS Tools," one can quickly access the ward or stake calendar for information that might be urgently needed at the moment.

I confess I am having "a difficult (or, more accurately, an IMPOSSIBLE) time" understanding why appropriate use of an electronic device at church should be necessarily seen as detracting from "the sacredness of the religious service" or being harmful to "the condition of your soul and spirit as you partake of the sacred event."

sL:"It's a matter of personal preference, I suppose, but it seems as though you would impose your preference on others."

Where did you get me trying to impose anything? I was describing a service.

Some people find spoken words to have greater impact if one can see them written out while hearing them spoken, thus involving two of the five senses rather than just one. It's a matter of personal preference, I suppose, but it seems as though you would impose your preference on others. That hardly seems fair.

 

And following along with scriptural passages as they are read in a meeting or class is definitely not the only potential use for an electronic device at LDS Sabbath day meetings:

 

• As has already been pointed out here, the Church's hymnal can be accessed and used electronically (both words and musical score).
• Very often, upcoming events and activities in the ward or stake are announced; they can be calendared with the use of an electronic device.
• In a Sunday School or other class, a user of an electronic device can read the topical material being discussed online -- in the scriptures or other instructional material -- and contribute insights to the discussion with authoritative sources he can find in the very moment.
• Sometimes, when a new member of the ward is introduced and he/she says where in the neighborhood his/her family lives, one can quickly access a map of the ward to determine where that is in the ward boundaries as a means of getting to know the new family better and perhaps paying a visit to welcome them.
• With the online app "LDS Tools," one can quickly find who occupies what position in the ward, information that could be very useful while at Church.
• "LDS Tools" affords one the ability of keeping useful lists of, say, the members of a class or group one is called to instruct or lead.
• With "LDS Tools," one can quickly access the ward or stake calendar for information that might be urgently needed at the moment.
• Spiritual and intellectual insights can be recorded in a journal or as an annotation in one's copy of the scriptures by means of an electronic device.

I confess I am having "a difficult (or, more accurately, an IMPOSSIBLE) time" understanding why appropriate use of an electronic device at church should be necessarily seen as detracting from "the sacredness of the religious service" or being harmful to "the condition of your soul and spirit as you partake of the sacred event."

SL:"It's a matter of personal preference, I suppose, but it seems as though you would impose your preference on others. That hardly seems fair."

Where did you get me trying to impose anything? I was describing a service.

.

SL: "...one can quickly access a map of the ward..."

Why would that be a priority and have to be done during a service?

SL:"one can quickly find who occupies what position in the ward,"

Again, you need that info in the middle of a service?

SL:"one can quickly access the ward or stake calendar for information that might be urgently needed."

Again, it's 'urgent' in the middle of a service?

I think the problem is we seem to be talking about 2 different things, it seems you are describing running a business at church services, I am talking about a church service where congregations gather to worship God

[cynth]

Sorry on a mobile device i seem to have unnecessarily duplicated scott's post twice in my reply.

[Scott Lloyd]

sL:"It's a matter of personal preference, I suppose, but it seems as though you would impose your preference on others."

Where did you get me trying to impose anything? I was describing a service.

 

 

Well, I got the impression you are opposed to anyone bringing an electronic device to church and using it for any reason. If that's not what you mean, please clarify.

 

SL: "...one can quickly access a map of the ward..."

Why would that be a priority and have to be done during a service?

 

 

What's wrong with doing it during a service -- or, say, during the break before Sunday School or priesthood/Relief Society meetings -- when it is convenient and when one is more apt to remember to do so than if it were left until later? Why should people have to forego making life more convenient just because you don't like seeing them with a smartphone or tablet in their hands?

 

SL:"one can quickly find who occupies what position in the ward,"

Again, you need that info in the middle of a service?

 

There may well be occasions when I do, yes.

 

 

SL:"one can quickly access the ward or stake calendar for information that might be urgently needed."

Again, it's 'urgent' in the middle of a service?

 

There may be occasions when it is, yes. Who are you to say such instances will never occur?

 

I think the problem is we seem to be talking about 2 different things, it seems you are describing running a business at church services, I am talking about a church service where congregations gather to worship God

 

There is more that goes on during the three-hour block of time when Latter-day Saints gather on Sunday in addition to sitting in the worship service: teaching, leading, planning, organizing, preparing, serving.

 

The Lord has placed modern-day technological miracles in our hands to facilitate our serving him and others as we personally gain knowledge and understanding. I see nothing wrong with making use of them during the three hour block. You have yet to show how how this necessarily or unavoidably detracts from or hinders worshiping God. Until you or someone else does so, I cannot take seriously the notion that using an electronic device at church should be forbidden or discouraged.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[The Nehor]

Not everyone is like you.

And that is why God created repentance.

[cynth]

 

 

Scott Lloyd: 'Well, I got the impression you are opposed to anyone bringing an electronic device to church and using it for any reason. If that's not what you mean, please clarify.'

 

I already did clarify.  Several times I clarified. And once again in my comment that you quoted I clarified.

 

Scott Lloyd: "The Lord has placed modern-day technological miracles in our hands to facilitate our serving him and others as we personally gaining knowledge and understanding. I see nothing wrong with making use of them during the three hour block. You have yet to show how how this necessarily or unavoidably detracts from or hinders worshiping God. Until you or someone else does so, I cannot take seriously the notion that using an electronic device at church should be forbidden or discouraged."

 

In what way are others required to SHOW you how you should worship?  You feel you know the God has placed electronic devices in your hands to be used during worship, I feel differently.  I have stated my observations and opinion, why on earth would you suppose I am determined that you should use any opinion of mine as a condition for your change?  I thought we were having a discussion, not vying for the right to force others to bend to their will.  I 'take seriously' your opinion that you need to check maps, membership lists, stake calendars, lesson plans, etc., as a part of your worship, I would expect that you would 'take seriously' my opinion that sacred and respectful worship of God does NOT include an electrionic device.

 

On a final note, I appreciate very much the board rules that allow us to focus on the ideas being discussed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeanne]

I actually read my scriptures a lot in sacrament meeting. You can usually tell in the first few minutes whether a talk is worth listening to. If it starts with an explanation of how they Iwere asked to give a talk or starts with how he or she and their spouse met you can safely tune it out.

I forgot that people can look up scriptures and stuff..but why carry around scriptures then?

[bluebell]

I forgot that people can look up scriptures and stuff..but why carry around scriptures then?

 

Most people, in the wards i've been in anyway, don't anymore.

[The Nehor]

I forgot that people can look up scriptures and stuff..but why carry around scriptures then?

 

I don't. I usually read a paper copy at home and use a set for my studying but I never cart my scriptures to church.

[Jeanne]

I don't. I usually read a paper copy at home and use a set for my studying but I never cart my scriptures to church.

Wow..times have changed and I must be an old fuddy duddy...

[The Nehor]

Wow..times have changed and I must be an old fuddy duddy...

 

I look at my four bookshelves filled with books I have read and enjoyed and then at my electronic device that could hold thousands of times as many books and sometimes feel the same way.