Thinking Posted November 21, 2014 Posted November 21, 2014 These are the prayers. O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen. O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this water to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen. Nobody's perfect, so all would need some level of repentance constantly. The prayers mention a willingness to keep the commandments not an achievement of already having kept them. However, as presently practiced, the sacrament seems more like a reward rather than part of the salvation process. Before you run for your Book of Mormon, I will quote 3 Nephi 18:29 for you.For whoso eateth and drinketh my flesh and blood unworthily eateth and drinketh damnation to his soul; therefore if ye know that a man is unworthy to eat and drink of my flesh and blood ye shall forbid him. In my opinion, this scripture is a stark contrast to a gospel of repentance.
JLHPROF Posted November 21, 2014 Posted November 21, 2014 I would imagine the key is in the prayer - that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments. A person would be unworthy if they weren't willing to be a follower of Christ or were fighting against Christ's work and law. I don't think it has much to do with sin. Just as with the temple, you don't have to be 100% sinless to get a recommend. You just have to be living up to the requirements. Same with the Baptism. Same with the sacrament. You are only unworthy if you are insincere or not working on your commitment to follow Christ and his laws. 2
pogi Posted November 21, 2014 Posted November 21, 2014 I don't think there is a strict code that bishops follow. It's all kind of up to the judge in Israel. Bishops will vary in their approach when addiction is a problem. Some probably feel that desire, in that case, is not always enough, one must demonstrably show steps taken and some sobriety. Where membership standing is in question or when disciplinary action is taken, I think it is obvious why they are asked to not partake. Either they are in open rebellion, or their baptismal covenants and church standing are potentially going to be revoked.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted November 21, 2014 Posted November 21, 2014 It has to do with the light we have and the covenants we have made. Sometimes we willingly break our covenants and sin. And there are various types of sin. Not all are the same. But more to the point, the only thing I can think of is1 Corinthians 11:29New TestamentFor he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.
Garden Girl Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 When I was reactivating, it was very difficult to keep a part of the Word of Wisdom... so I was not taking the sacrament. Finally, I prayed and told Heavenly Father that I needed the strength of the sacrament to help me get over that last hump... and I wanted to start taking the sacrament... So I did, and as the prayers were being said I prayed with my whole heart, and asked for the strength needed... as I took of the bread and then of the water I did so with pure intent of heart... and I overcame my behavior almost immediately because I literally felt the strength and resolve to do so... and the next week when I took the sacrament, I did so with a clear mind and heart... and it has been so ever since... GG 4
strappinglad Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 The word ' unworthily ' is an adverb modifying the verb partake. It reflects the HOW of the action. How we are thinking, our attitude as it pertains to the sacrament is what matters. A person can be worthy according to the requirements and still partake unworthily by having a flippant or sacrilegious attitude. I might dare to suggest that a person who is on his smart phone during the sacrament with no attention being paid to the ordinance, is partaking ' unworthily '. Similarly, a person may be unworthy according to the requirements but have a meekness and lowliness of heart and a repentant attitude and partake worthily. 3
JAHS Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 Normally one does not need to refrain from taking the sacrament unless told to do so by the bishop as part of a disciplinary action. The sacrament is a good time to start anew; to either give up a sin or make a promise to God to better obey a certain commandment that the member is having trouble with. Elder John H. Groberg said about worthiness to take the Sacrament:"If we desire to improve (which is to repent) and are not under priesthood restriction, then, in my opinion, we are worthy," (Conf Report, April 1989, p. 50.) As has been mentioned before worthiness can be a relative term depending on the person and situation. My 80 year old grandmother, who was a member but was hooked on coffee, very much wanted to be able to attend the temple to see grand kids get married, etc. but quitting the coffee was too hard on her system. So after trying for a long time her Bishop finally told her that if she could just cut down to a half cup per day he would give her the recommend. She did and he did. 1
lds-convert-sw Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 ...So after trying for a long time her Bishop finally told her that if she could just cut down to a half cup per day he would give her the recommend. She did and he did.I like to see I'm not the only one with trouble keeping 'all' the Word of Wisdom. As a convert, I've had a really hard time over the years giving up my 'fru fru' coffee drinks. While in college I lived on caramel macchiatos. I just really enjoyed the taste, and the heat of the drink, etc. I've only had a couple coffee drinks in the 6 years since I was baptized. Now, a of people may come down hard about this, but I really don't see the harm in 'moderation' in things like coffee. But that's a different subject Regarding not taking the sacrament because someone 'isn't worthy', are any of us worthy? I guess it does come down to intent. If someone drives to church with his family, and on the way, gets really angry at someone in traffic, and acts inappropriately, and then goes in and takes the sacrament, is that person making light of his/her covenants? Yes, definitely. But, if the same person immediately realized their actions were wrong, and then with a humble heart, partook of the sacrament, that's the whole point of it. Repentance. We all sin and are not worthy. That's what the atonement was for. Ultimately, it's between an individual and God (and the bishop, if the sin/actions are grevious enough).
lds-convert-sw Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 What sins are grievous enough?Well, like I said, it's up to the individual and God (and the Bishop if the person lets him in on the problem). Obviously there are no 'laws' preventing someone from taking the sacrament, and I would venture to say that the people who need the sacrament the most, are the ones who should be taking it. The sacrament was never meant to be a "reward' for good behavior. (as mentioned above). So, to answer your question, there is NO sin too grevious, IF you are sincere in repentance, God will not forsake a person, nor prevent that person from drawing closer to Him, and that's exactly what the sacrament is for, is to draw closer to God.
lds-convert-sw Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 Correction... I understand the question now. "What sins are grevious enough?" When I said that, what I meant was, if the sin is grevious enough you should be talking to your bishop (about the sin), I didn't mean that if the sin was grevious enough you shouldn't be taking sacrament.
Rivers Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 Is there anything wrong with non-LDS visitors taking the sacrament?
JLHPROF Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 Is there anything wrong with non-LDS visitors taking the sacrament? I don't believe they should, however there is nothing in the Church policy against it.Handbook says"Although the sacrament is for Church members, the bishopric should not announce that it will be passed to members only, and nothing should be done to prevent nonmembers from partaking of the sacrament. " In my personal opinion, the sacrament is for those who have taken upon them the name of Christ through baptism. Taking it serves no purpose for those who have not.
lds-convert-sw Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 Is there anything wrong with non-LDS visitors taking the sacrament?Hmm... now that's a good question. I have thought about this. I have no hard statistics on this, but I do know that my ward occasionally has investigators who are Catholic/Baptist, etc, and I can't imagine there would be any objection to someone who isn't LDS taking the sacrament. I think the sacrament is for anyone who has, or wants, a relationship with Heavenly Father. Again, just my opinion, but there are millions and millions of Christians out there who have an amazing understanding of the scriptuures, and also have a strong relationship with God and our Savior. They just don't have "The rest of the story" as Paul Harvey used to say.
lds-convert-sw Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 ...In my personal opinion, the sacrament is for those who have taken upon them the name of Christ through baptism. Taking it serves no purpose for those who have not.Just a friendly question... So "Only" Latter Day Saints have taken upon them the name of Christ through Baptism? Now, I do know (and believe) we have the "full" authority, but that doesn't necessarily invalidate the real and honest and sincere baptisms that have taken place outside of the Church. I think, too often some people get caught up in the "We are right and others are wrong" mentality. We need to focus on what we have in common, which I think the leadership of the Church (70's, Apostles, President Monson) do an excellent job at, reaching out to others of faith.
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 There have been times when I haven't taken the sacrament on Sunday when I've sinned Saturday night. For me enough time hadn't passed in the repentance process. 1
Thinking Posted November 22, 2014 Author Posted November 22, 2014 It has to do with the light we have and the covenants we have made. Sometimes we willingly break our covenants and sin. And there are various types of sin. Not all are the same. But more to the point, the only thing I can think of is 1 Corinthians 11:29New TestamentFor he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. On the surface, the scripture from the NT seems identical to the verse from the BoM. Read the preceding verse in each book. The BoM verse requires us to judge others, while the NT verse has the member judging himself. 3 Nephi 18:28And now behold, this is the commandment which I give unto you, that ye shall not suffer any one knowingly to partake of my flesh and blood unworthily, when ye shall minister it; 1 Corinthians 11:28But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
Calm Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 Is there anything wrong with non-LDS visitors taking the sacrament?When I was young, I remember it being announced from the pulpit only members should partake, but this must have included those not baptized yet because I remember partaking. I confirmed it with someone else that this was common, if not policy to make the announcement...I can't remember which one he said it was though.For whatever reason church leaders have decided it is not an issue.
lds-convert-sw Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 There have been times when I haven't taken the sacrament on Sunday when I've sinned Saturday night. For me enough time hadn't passed in the repentance process.VideoGameJunkie, in no way am I invalidating what you are saying or your spiritual experience by what I'm about to say, I'm genuinely curious about everyone's beliefs.... Isn't a very important factor in taking the sacrament to help us atone for our sins? Like I said previously, IMO, I don't think the sacrament is reserved for those who are 'worthy'. But then again, I grew up Catholic, so my views might be skewed a little. I am very interested in what the 'overall' LDS viewpoint is concerning the sacrament. Is it a 'reward' for good behavior? or is it to be taken as a way to say "Lord, I believe in you, and in Jesus Christ, and I re-commit myself to you and to my covenants, and Lord, please forgive me for my sins, as I attempt each day to be more like you"?
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 lds convert, I think you're right in why we should take the sacrament and what it is. I think I was just trying to punish myself, so God wouldn't later.
janderich Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 The word ' unworthily ' is an adverb modifying the verb partake. It reflects the HOW of the action. How we are thinking, our attitude as it pertains to the sacrament is what matters. A person can be worthy according to the requirements and still partake unworthily by having a flippant or sacrilegious attitude. I might dare to suggest that a person who is on his smart phone during the sacrament with no attention being paid to the ordinance, is partaking ' unworthily '. Similarly, a person may be unworthy according to the requirements but have a meekness and lowliness of heart and a repentant attitude and partake worthily.Yes, an important point. Our attitude when partaking of the sacrament is the key factor in my estimation. The sacrament is a symbol of our commitment to the gospel of Jesus Christ. When we partake of the bread and water but are not committing ourselves to follow the gospel then we have separated the symbol from the symbolized and are participating in idolatry. The Savior said, "Therefore, if ye shall come unto me, or shall desire to come unto me, and rememberest that they brother hath aught against thee - go they way unto they brother, and first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come unto me with full purpose of heart, and I will receive you" (3 Ne 12:23-24 italics added). A person of two minds, who believes he can serve two masters, is unworthy to partake and clearly he does drink damnation to his soul.
Silhouette Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 When I was investigating the Church many years ago, the missionaries who were teaching us told us not to partake of the Sacrament because it was intended for members to renew their baptismal covenants. If one hadn't been baptized into the Church with the proper authority, it was not meet that they should try to renew something that they had not done in the first place. It didn't matter if they had been "baptized" into a different faith before. The only real baptism was one performed with proper Priesthood authority, i.e. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Good intent or not, we were taught that it is inappropriate for unbaptized people to partake. When I've been sitting with non-members, I have always tactfully explained that non-members do not partake. Regarding the Sacrament prayers themselves, I heard a member of the Bishopric in my ward at that time give a talk about paying attention to the differences in the wording of the two prayers. When blessing the bread, at one point it says, "[...] that they are WILLING to take upon them the name of Thy Son [...]"When the water is blessed, it says, "[...] that they may DO IT in remembrance of Thy Son [...]"So first we must be willing, and then we must do it (take action on our willingness). 1
HappyJackWagon Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 I don't think restricting the sacrament is generally used as a punishment. I hope not. But it can be a useful tool in helping someone recognize the gravity of the sin if they don't already. It can also be useful for the individual to recognize a loss. They may have already lost the spirit but it may have happened so gradually they didn't notice. Losing the opportunity to partake of the sacrament for a brief time could help to wake them up. Then, when they able to partake again, they may feel a sense of accomplishment and forgiveness. They may feel that they have regained what they had lost and have a stronger desire to keep it. Hopefully losing the ability to partake of the sacrament is not used as a stick and hopefully it is not for long periods of time. Hopefully it is used to help the sinner feel closer to Christ as they begin partaking again.
JLHPROF Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 When I was investigating the Church many years ago, the missionaries who were teaching us told us not to partake of the Sacrament because it was intended for members to renew their baptismal covenants. If one hadn't been baptized into the Church with the proper authority, it was not meet that they should try to renew something that they had not done in the first place. It didn't matter if they had been "baptized" into a different faith before. The only real baptism was one performed with proper Priesthood authority, i.e. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Good intent or not, we were taught that it is inappropriate for unbaptized people to partake. When I've been sitting with non-members, I have always tactfully explained that non-members do not partake. My understanding exactly. The Church no longer instructs non-members in sacrament meeting that they may not partake, but he doctrinal principle behind it hasn't changed.
JLHPROF Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 Just a friendly question... So "Only" Latter Day Saints have taken upon them the name of Christ through Baptism? Now, I do know (and believe) we have the "full" authority, but that doesn't necessarily invalidate the real and honest and sincere baptisms that have taken place outside of the Church. I think, too often some people get caught up in the "We are right and others are wrong" mentality. We need to focus on what we have in common, which I think the leadership of the Church (70's, Apostles, President Monson) do an excellent job at, reaching out to others of faith. It's not an issue of right or wrong. It's an issue of taking the sacrament to renew a covenant that doesn't exist yet. It serves no purpose and has no effect (doctrinally). However, I am sure it could be a reaching out tool, but I don't see that as the purpose of the sacrament according to scripture. It's a bit like going to a high school reunion at a school you never attended...
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