Calm Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 I plan on having several to clean up after me. 1
Brian 2.0 Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 How many wives should faithful members expect to have in the Celestial Kingdom?I think it was seven times seventy... if I'm remembering correctly.
JLHPROF Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 In many fundamentalist groups 3 wives are needed to form a quorum, 5 to be a patriarch, and 7 to be the prophet/priesthood head...Most polygamists apparently shoot for 3.
Thinking Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 The simple truth is that polygamy has been the norm on this earth for millennia. It really only ceased twice - the Roman Empire and today's western societies.If there were any sin or error in it I think God would have been much more outspoken as he was against other prevalent sins. There is no more sin in polygamy in a society than there is in monogamy. Now if you are talking the Mormon heaven authorized version of polygamy, that God has restricted to whenever HE commands. Does polygamy being the norm make it right? In how many of those societies where is was accepted were the laws created by men? Also, you have some circular reasoning going on with this sentence, "If there were any sin or error in it I think God would have been much more outspoken as he was against other prevalent sins." If it was wrong, God would have told me it was wrong. Therefore it's not wrong.
bcuzbcuz Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 I think it was seven times seventy... if I'm remembering correctly.Matthew 18:22. The 7 times 70 is the number of times to forgive. There is a Swedish book by Lars Görling, made into film by Vilgot Sjöman, called "491", dealing with the idea of what happens when someone transgresses the 7 x 70 first time. Not an entirely uplifting film.The best number of wives is 4. If a man has only one wife,he argues only with her. If a man has two wives, they both gang up together and argue against him. If a man has three wives,, then 2 of the wives gang up against the third wife. Only with four wives can there be harmony. (Rex Ingram, Sahara, 1943)
DBMormon Posted December 25, 2014 Author Posted December 25, 2014 Is there some quote out there that says God gave women a salvific advantage over men? Or that God stacked the odds against you simply because you are a man? Or are these assumptions that are read into some other quotes?it is the basis of Brian Hales reasoning for polygamy. That there will indeed be more women than men in heaven.
JLHPROF Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 it is the basis of Brian Hales reasoning for polygamy. That there will indeed be more women than men in heaven. Which is based on a non-canonical teaching. One example being the Mosiah Hancock vision which theorized that none of the 1/3 part of the hosts of heaven that fell were women. 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 It seems like polygamy is almost impossible to pull off as mortals, but it could definitely be pulled off in the eternities where there's no jealousy.
Tacenda Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 So we go along like robots. No emotions, always happy never knowing real joy when comparing it to sorrow. Don't know if I like that kind of heaven.
JLHPROF Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 So we go along like Gods. No FALLEN emotions, always happy never knowing real joy without sorrow. Fixed it for you.
Tacenda Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 Fixed it for you. Good job, very creative reworking JL. I should just explain, don't we want to know that we should and can overcome jealousy and not have it be a given? 2
bluebell Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 Good job, very creative reworking JL. I should just explain, don't we want to know that we should and can overcome jealousy and not have it be a given?I don't think anyone has said that it will be a given.
VideoGameJunkie Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 I never said I knew that polygamy is the way and a part of exaltation, but Brigham Young said it was and a prophet of God wouldn't lie to us over something that huge since celestial marriage is so important.
Calm Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 He would not lie, but he might not understand things as being eternal in the same way as God does. For example, go read how circumcision is described as an everlasting covenant in the OT and yet that is no longer required as a sign of the covenant people either.
Teancum Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 It seems like polygamy is almost impossible to pull off as mortals, but it could definitely be pulled off in the eternities where there's no jealousy.BY taught we are the same people as we enter eternity as we are here. JS taught that it will take us a very long time in the eternities to be perfected. The Mormon view of the eternal hereafter is one of growing nd learning. Will we have agency? I think the Mormom heaven allow for lots of foibles jealousy included. Thus the silliness of all the ICK that comes fro polygamy will continue.
Teancum Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 So we go along like robots. No emotions, always happy never knowing real joy when comparing it to sorrow. Don't know if I like that kind of heaven.Nah. We just think that so the stuff we know now that is ludicrous may be be if it is really there in eternity,,.,which it isn't.
Teancum Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 Good job, very creative reworking JL. I should just explain, don't we want to know that we should and can overcome jealousy and not have it be a given?JL has his fantasies as well.
Teancum Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 I never said I knew that polygamy is the way and a part of exaltation, but Brigham Young said it was and a prophet of God wouldn't lie to us over something that huge since celestial marriage is so important.Brigham got a lot wrong, He even said he might perch false doctrine. To test the saints to make sure they don't fillow blindly. But if you are relying on Brigham for consistancy you will be disappointed.
Teancum Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) He would not lie, but he might not understand things as being eternal in the same way as God does. For example, go read how circumcision is described as an everlasting covenant in the OT and yet that is no longer required as a sign of the covenant people either.Do you know ho God understood things better than the second prophet of the LDS church? How can you make such a statement with and confidence of accuracy.?Your example above is a fine specimen of how unreliable scriptures can be. Since circumcision is no longer and everlasting covenant you read a new meaning back into it, Edited December 26, 2014 by Teancum
Calm Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) Do you know ho God understood things better than the second prophet of the LDS church? How can you make such a statement with and confidence of accuracy.?Your example above is a fine specimen of how unreliable scriptures can be. Since circumcision is no longer and everlasting covenant you read a new meaning back into it,I said "might". I am open to prophets being fallible at times. And I have no problem with you labeling the scriptures as "unreliable". The idea doesn't frighten me in the least. I think God intended them that way so we would turn to him and keep returning back to him. I recognize that not everyone responds to the ambiguity in the same way. Why that is so I am waiting for God to let me know. I know I am also fallible and in no way am implying that I know better. I wouldn't have to use "might" if I thought otherwise. Every time I read the scriptures I find a new meaning there. It is an advantage to be able to have the Spirit teach me what I need to know at that moment. I don't see it as a liability, but a blessing. Someday I hope to be able to have the opportunity of having the authors of the scriptures tell me what they meant at the time they wrote the verses down, but it will not change the value of what meanings I got out of the words even if they were something completely different. Edited December 26, 2014 by calmoriah
JLHPROF Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 JL has his fantasies as well. You say fantasy, I say faith.
Teancum Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 I said "might". I am open to prophets being fallible at times. And I have no problem with you labeling the scriptures as "unreliable". The idea doesn't frighten me in the least. I think God intended them that way so we would turn to him and keep returning back to him. I recognize that not everyone responds to the ambiguity in the same way. Why that is so I am waiting for God to let me know. I know I am also fallible and in no way am implying that I know better. I wouldn't have to use "might" if I thought otherwise. Every time I read the scriptures I find a new meaning there. It is an advantage to be able to have the Spirit teach me what I need to know at that moment. I don't see it as a liability, but a blessing. Someday I hope to be able to have the opportunity of having the authors of the scriptures tell me what they meant at the time they wrote the verses down, but it will not change the value of what meanings I got out of the words even if they were something completely different.Fair enough. Personally I have trouble getting my head around a God that would intend his directions to be as ambiguous as they seem and as you seem to agree they are. And if Gods direction to hus prophets are so ambiguous as to cause you or me to constantly turn to him for clarification how can you know what you think God says is right when so many get different answers bu they all think it is Gods truth to them? In LDS doctrine this is the final exam but we were caused to forget all we learned and what he have to go on to figure it all out is pretty muddy. It makes no sense at all.
Teancum Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 You say fantasy, I say faith.The two can be awfully similar.
JLHPROF Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 The two can be awfully similar. Actually I find mans "reason" tends to produce more fantasy than all the faith in Christendom. Man is excellent at coming to the wrong conclusion without a guiding light.
Teancum Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 Actually I find mans "reason" tends to produce more fantasy than all the faith in Christendom. Man is excellent at coming to the wrong conclusion without a guiding light.All the faith in Christiandom has produced conflicting doctrines that are myriad. Most Christians reject the Mormonsim you beleive is truth as a false non Christian heresy and evne cult.
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