The Rich And The Poor - Lds Statements

[Calm]

I am not sure if you are just throwing out a hypothetical or if you are asking a question or what. But a salary in any sense is never "profit". It is always an expense. And it doesn't matter whose salary it is. Salary = expense.

But owners get to choose what they pay themselves so I don't know if that is usually considered as part of the profits or part of operating expenses...and know business prof husband to check with at the moment. I know owners who put all money they arent giving to other people because of contracts and stuff into the business and got nothing out and lived off of wife working or a second job for themselves, so I tend to see it as "profit".

[Calm]

It is as bad what the feminist use on the so called gender wage gap. They just can't be honest about they are comparing.

I agree that most I've seen ignore the difference in education, experience, and length of employment, but I have seen a few studies that do take all of those into account and still find a gap so while I am cautious about accepting results if I can't see their methodology, I won't say "so-called" at this time.

[pogi]

There is no easy solution. The only solution I know of is to establish Zion but that is not easy.

 

 

I expected a more sinister solution from you Nehor.  Something like implanting microchips into the brains of the poor and homeless which creates a virtual reality of a blissful Zion for them.  But in reality, they are drone soldiers which we inject with steroids and remotely control them to fight our wars.  Or, they can be automated to work round the clock, never complain, and never ask for any money.  We become more powerful and more rich, and everybody's happy. 

Edited October 29, 2014 by pogi

[sdc999]

 

 

The problem is while that works for individuals it would not work if all the poor did it. Suppose tomorrow all minimum wage workers in the United States started going to college or trade schools to improve how much they make. In the end we will still need fast food workers and hotel maids and there would not be enough high dollar jobs to support all the newly qualified people. On an individual level I would encourage those not making much to strive for improvement but that will not eliminate poverty.

 

Well, tomorrow, All the workers will not strive to get better.  There will always be mediocrity.  In addition, kids learning work trades usually fill the low paying jobs (fast food).  There will always be poverty.

 

 

 

I agree with an article linked above that Wal-Mart is the big welfare queen of America. They do not pay their employees enough and government programs take up the slack with food stamps, medical care, etc. Wal-Mart pays low wages but get employees that are not riddled with disease or malnourished because the taxpayers make up the difference. This is why I support minimum wage laws. You should not get most of an employee's working hours if you are not willing to pay them enough to reasonably live on.

 

I run a business just as the execs run Walmart.  Mine is much much smaller but the premise is the same.  I pay a wage that attracts a worker that I feel will be able to accomplish the job that I need done.  If someone wanted to make a career out of one of my part time positions, I would be baffled.  I have had some that have moved up, but the number is small as we have grown slowly.  Walmart does the same and people have been promoted there as well.   What we have is a gov't that is all too willing to step in rather than let the system work itself out.  No, I do not want someone starving in an allyway nor do I think as Americans we would allow it.  Churches step in all over to help out.  In fact, I will state IMHO, that if churches were the sole source of welfare (minus disability), our country would be better off.   People would probably be more encouraged to try to get back to supporting themselves and may have better avenues to accomplish this.  

 

If Walmart is "not paying their employees enough" then every company that pays employees the same amount or less is guilty of underpaying their workforce.  If the belief is that Walmart is wealthy and can afford it, I would attach this analogy:    Grass mowing/lawn care.  If you have two yards that you mow.   Retail store manager's yard (he makes 60k/yr) and you mow a CEO's yard (he makes 1m/yr).   Both have 1/2 acre.  By that standard, the CEO would be cheating you if he didn't pay a much greater rate because he is wealthier.    

 

Certain jobs in America pay certain rates.  This may vary depending on location and/or local economics.  Workers tend to drive the pay scale, not the employers.  It's hard to think that way, but if I wasn't paying enough to attract workers, my labor intensive business would cease to exist rather quickly.  Although I have my CHL, I have never forced anyone to work for me at gunpoint or  against their will. 

 

One last thing about laziness and unemployment.  It has been a little better over the last year, but it wasn't uncommon, at a time,  for two to three people to come by each week and say, "I know you're not hiring right now but I have to have a few contacts for my unemployment sheet I have to turn in."  They would really get disgruntled when I told them I need an application on file if they want to put my name down.  Some would just turn and walk out.   

[WysteriaBlue]

I also have a small business....

There are two variables not discussed as far as I have seen so far.

One is the "internal" wage scale..where new and less qualified and less trained employees should and do make less than those that are better trained and more efficient and come with higher levels of training and have senority....

there is also the "external" wage scale....what I need to offer to prospective employees to get the skills and abilities that I need to complete those tasks and fill that position. BOTH of these scales have to be balanced in order to pay fairly.

 

Also, there is the enormous amount of monies that I pay out to provide good health benefits, employer paid taxes on their income, matching funds for their retirement accounts (most employees will not even participate and leave this "free" money on the table!!), unemployment taxes, self-employment taxes, fees for their payrolls, fees for their garnishments, gifts bonuses and employee incentives, etc.  The average employee only "sees" or will admit to what is in the bottom line of their paycheck...about %47 of what I have paid out for that employee!!!  They do not appreciate all that I pay out for their welfare and in taxes and such regulated by the state and federal government!  Don't forget all the forms that I have to fill out and get updated and process and the accounting involved in taking care of these employees.  No one but me sees how much it truly "costs" per employee.  And if I try to explain how much it really costs and how much is paid out in terms of "real" benefits to the employee, they do NOT want to hear it or recognize it.  I have always fought for good benefits and safety and financial security for the future of our employees....but they do not want to know about that.  But then don't keep bank accounts and pay money lenders to cash their paychecks and lose 2-6% for no real reason....I have even approached our bank to help them get basic savings accounts so that they can cash their checks for free!!! 

 

Let alone the "payday lenders" which personally I think should go straight to heck.....and it is a major market that is being promoted and is growing and completely takes advantage of the poor.  Let alone the high fees that employees from other countries have to pay to try to safely send home to their families in other countries.  If Jesus were alive, I'd hope he would be bombing such scurrilous money lending facilities.

 

Ones that have been with us for a while, want advancement, but are unwilling to work extra hours to cross train for other positions or go to trade schools to up their skills and abilities to obtain better positions.  Or to take on extra duties to show willingness to move up the ranks and be considered for better paying jobs in sales or admin or whatever.

 

Also, some stores, which are owned by corporations that are traded publicly on the stock market have to pay out dividends and interest to stockholders that have invested in the companies...  Also, some companies are unionized...you'd be surprised how many and how hard again it is for the employees to appreciate the value that it adds and how often they actually work against the employee in the short term.

 

As a self employed manager of a company, almost 36% of all the monies I "earn" or take from the company are paid in state and federal taxes!  So for every dollar I earn, 36 cents has to be set aside for pass through taxes on income from the company.  Try being faced with that bodacious tax bill at the end of the year!!

 

Just giving another point of view..as one small business owner and the employees that I try to take care of and treat fairly in all ways...  I'd honestly be much better off financially if I didn't care and didn't treat them well....but then turnover would be higher and I'd probably have INS at my door. 

 

This is a very complicated issue...

 

(And the reason that many foreign (often Asian) workers do well, is that they "pool" their resources and buy cars and houses as families and have much higher credit ratings and can buy more economically.  They give up much, but in the end, use the system against itself by not creating debt, interest, poor credit, overspending and using thrift and good money management for the benefit of the entire family...)

 

just more grist for the mill.....

 

wb

Edited October 30, 2014 by WysteriaBlue

[The Nehor]

I expected a more sinister solution from you Nehor.  Something like implanting microchips into the brains of the poor and homeless which creates a virtual reality of a blissful Zion for them.  But in reality, they are drone soldiers which we inject with steroids and remotely control them to fight our wars.  Or, they can be automated to work round the clock, never complain, and never ask for any money.  We become more powerful and more rich, and everybody's happy. 

 

As fun as that sounds, as arrogant as I am, and as much as I can sound like a born aristocrat I can't do it.

 

 

Well, tomorrow, All the workers will not strive to get better.  There will always be mediocrity.  In addition, kids learning work trades usually fill the low paying jobs (fast food).  There will always be poverty. 

 

I suspect any system that requires mediocrity to function. I disagree about work trades. Those who learn them often make more then more "white collar" occupations now and it is only a strange American disdain for any form of manual labor, no matter how skilled, that keeps people away from it.

 

 

I run a business just as the execs run Walmart.  Mine is much much smaller but the premise is the same.  I pay a wage that attracts a worker that I feel will be able to accomplish the job that I need done.  If someone wanted to make a career out of one of my part time positions, I would be baffled.  I have had some that have moved up, but the number is small as we have grown slowly.  Walmart does the same and people have been promoted there as well.   What we have is a gov't that is all too willing to step in rather than let the system work itself out.  No, I do not want someone starving in an allyway nor do I think as Americans we would allow it.  Churches step in all over to help out.  In fact, I will state IMHO, that if churches were the sole source of welfare (minus disability), our country would be better off.   People would probably be more encouraged to try to get back to supporting themselves and may have better avenues to accomplish this.  

 

If Walmart is "not paying their employees enough" then every company that pays employees the same amount or less is guilty of underpaying their workforce.  If the belief is that Walmart is wealthy and can afford it, I would attach this analogy:    Grass mowing/lawn care.  If you have two yards that you mow.   Retail store manager's yard (he makes 60k/yr) and you mow a CEO's yard (he makes 1m/yr).   Both have 1/2 acre.  By that standard, the CEO would be cheating you if he didn't pay a much greater rate because he is wealthier.    

 

Certain jobs in America pay certain rates.  This may vary depending on location and/or local economics.  Workers tend to drive the pay scale, not the employers.  It's hard to think that way, but if I wasn't paying enough to attract workers, my labor intensive business would cease to exist rather quickly.  Although I have my CHL, I have never forced anyone to work for me at gunpoint or  against their will. 

 

One last thing about laziness and unemployment.  It has been a little better over the last year, but it wasn't uncommon, at a time,  for two to three people to come by each week and say, "I know you're not hiring right now but I have to have a few contacts for my unemployment sheet I have to turn in."  They would really get disgruntled when I told them I need an application on file if they want to put my name down.  Some would just turn and walk out.   

 

I disagree about government welfare being replaceable. If government welfare vanished the entirety of the Salvation Army would be hard-pressed to step in and fix the shortfall in an average state and they are one of the biggest givers. There is little evidence that a drop in taxes will lead to an increase in charitable giving. Taxes have been on a fairly steady decline (with occasional variations) since World War II. There are governments with free markets that have no social safety net. One is Haiti. I don't believe American Exceptionalism will prevent similar conditions from creating a similar situation. I have had people disagree with me. I then ask if American Exceptionalism would mean that we could implement socialism or communism or even feudalism and expect that our uniqueness would make us flourish. They looked at me like I was crazy.

 

Charitable donations to all charities would have to increase by a factor of ten to make up the shortfall.

 

I do not think that fair wages are a matter of "if you can afford it". I would argue that if you cannot pay a decent wage it may be a bad idea to run a business but I would be terrified of trying to judge individual cases. I don't think workers drive the pay scales as you say though. Scarcity of skills drives the pay scale. I could walk out and get a similar paying job pretty quickly because I am good at my job and have skills that are rarer then the demand. Our problem in the US is an excess of labor. Capital is often cheaper. If there are more laborers then jobs then employers have the power and can offer lower wages as the worker needs money to survive and has little bargaining power if they are replaceable.

 

The situation can swing the opposite direction. After the plague in Europe the scarcity of workers gave the feudal peasants power as they were now a more valued commodity. It actually was the beginning of the end for feudalism. If ebola gets over here and kills 40% of the population workers will have the power and employers will be in trouble. There are indications of a shift in the future. As the US workforce grows older we will have a lot of retirement. Social Security will eat us up a bit but we will have fewer workers and need a robust economy to support the elderly non-working. We may have more jobs then employees.

 

I have some experience with the unemployment system in the United States and it is humiliating. Yeah, people try to get that stuff signed off and I really don't blame them. You have social workers who mostly despise the people they work with (usually for good reasons) and a list of requirements, many of which make no sense. I work in drug and alcohol testing and I see that some conservatives want to drug test welfare recipients before they can get benefits. This is not cost-effective. Drug screens are not cheap and the system will cost far more then it will save. We seem more worried about people abusing the system then we do worried about helping those who need it. And yes, most of the impoverished are not pleasant people. Most of those with the will and the resources to get out of it do. The mythic ideal "Bob Cratchett" poor person who is virtuous and poor and humble and thankful is rare. They were rare in the time of Jesus too and in just about every time period. God tells us to feed them anyways. 

 

 

Also, there is the enormous amount of monies that I pay out to provide good health benefits, employer paid taxes on their income, matching funds for their retirement accounts (most employees will not even participate and leave this "free" money on the table!!), unemployment taxes, self-employment taxes, fees for their payrolls, fees for their garnishments, gifts bonuses and employee incentives, etc.  The average employee only "sees" or will admit to what is in the bottom line of their paycheck...about %47 of what I have paid out for that employee!!!  They do not appreciate all that I pay out for their welfare and in taxes and such regulated by the state and federal government!  Don't forget all the forms that I have to fill out and get updated and process and the accounting involved in taking care of these employees.  No one but me sees how much it truly "costs" per employee.  And if I try to explain how much it really costs and how much is paid out in terms of "real" benefits to the employee, they do NOT want to hear it or recognize it.  I have always fought for good benefits and safety and financial security for the future of our employees....but they do not want to know about that.  But then don't keep bank accounts and pay money lenders to cash their paychecks and lose 2-6% for NO reason....I have even approached our bank to help them get basic savings accounts so that they can cash their checks for FREE!!! 

 

Let alone the "payday lenders" which personally I think should go straight to heck.....and it is a major market that is being promoted and is growing and completely takes advantage of the poor.  Let alone the high fees that employees from other countries have to pay to try to safely send home to their families in other countries.  If Jesus were alive, I'd hope he would be bombing such scurrilous money lending facilities.

 

And here we have some of the predatory stuff. Payday lenders should have millstones wrapped around their necks and be tossed into the sea. That kind of predatory interest rate should be illegal but they can afford lobbyists and keep growing. There are more of these loan sharks around then there are McDonald's franchises.

 

Here is an entertaining piece on them (warning: strong language):

 

 

Grinding the faces of the poor is a growth industry and payday loans are only one industry doing it.

 

There have been fascinating studies done on the spending habits of the poor. Most have tried to save and see no benefit in it. Here is how it often works. I can save $500-750 a month without trying hard at all. I throw that into my bank account and see my net worth rising. When unexpected expenses arise I pay them and they chip away at it a little but most of the time I am making progress in net worth. I have enough to play with investments and have security. Saving pays off with perceived benefits and I keep doing it. Now take a poor guy making near minimum wage. Let's say that if he works hard at it and makes sacrifices he can save $100 a month. He does so but then a random expense hits (as they always do) and the money is gone. After about a year of trying and never getting ahead he gives up. It does not work. When he tries to save it vanishes so he decides to spend it as he gets it to get some perceived benefit now and develops a "use it or lose it" mentality.

 

I understand why poverty is described as bondage.

[thesometimesaint]

I'm tired of welfare queens stealing my money.

SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_welfare

SEE http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/

Edited October 30, 2014 by thesometimesaint

[cinepro]

I'm tired of welfare queens stealing my money.

SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_welfare

SEE http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/

 

FWIW, I'm generally against "corporate welfare" too.   It's amazing what good lobbyists and truckloads of money can do for a company (and industry) in Washington.

Edited October 30, 2014 by cinepro

[MormonFreeThinker]

My argument is that the rich need to help the poor. The rich should give jobs to the poor, and pay them a living wage, that is the best way for the rich to help the poor. 7.25 to 10 dollars an hour is not a living wage, especially for the hard working factory employees. 

 

"Some employers are not fair to their employees; they pay them less than they should. Satan says, “Take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor” (2 Nephi 28:8 ). Taking unfair advantage is a form of dishonesty." Gospel Principles, (2011), 179–83

Edited October 30, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[Ahab]

A recent news report claimed the number of billionaires has doubled this past year, and yet again I still haven't even become a millionaire. Not that I ever expect to make that much in a year, or would accumulate it if I made it. I can't stomach the idea of having more wealth than I need at any one time so how would it ever happen? I can't imagine it, and I don't really want to. Maybe owning a company that made that much but never in personal income, because I just wouldn't pay myself that much. I'd be distributing it at the company level so it wouldn't ever be in my own name. I can see how actors and athletes can make millions of dollars though, just because that is the top of their pay scale these days, and I can also see how CEOs and investment bankers and some others can be paid millions of dollars, but to accumulate it when so many are struggling to just get by? Where is the love, and the charitable giving? Some people just have too much money, and too many others just don't have enough.

[WysteriaBlue]

try a righteous taxation law that does not give to the rich and burden the poor to the point of not being able to hire "hard working" employees.

 

Most often bankruptcies are caused by outrageous medical bills that have no real basis in reality....predatory housing loans (cause of recession over last 5 years) and predatory interest rates on payday loans and bank cards and fees.

 

If you are living even close to the poverty line, you can not afford to get sick, go in debt, have to make large necessary household repairs, or finance other things that come up that are sometimes if not often out of your control. 

I've seen almost all my employees leave free money on the table in terms of matching funds for retirement accounts, not choose to pay even the small portion of the cost of health/life insurance that the company offers to help protect them, and take loans against any 401k funds they do save up.  They pay 2-4% to cash their paychecks even though I have offered to get them very low fee or no fee savings accounts so they can cash them for free.

 

The financial predators, the big corporations, the oil giants with their huge tax subsidies, the pharmaceutical companies and hospitals that have no real basis for the actual costs of the medicine and hospital fees they charge.....they all make loads of money and get paid in terms of tax subsidies and no interest loans by our government.

 

When things get rough...what are the first cuts to the national budget that are usually trotted out?  Welfare, Social Security, Medicaid/Medicare that you and I have been paying in to through our paychecks and taxes for years!

 

This is not a simple 'pay them more' schemata!! 

The big guys will just take it from you in the end.... This needs real reform and starts with the welfare to the corporations given by our government and real cuts to fat cat budgets and the war mongers' toys.

 

That is just my opinion as a small business owner that pays approx 36% of her income in taxes and tries very hard to protect and treat well her employees.

Yeah, that main street small business owner that is supposed to help the economy rebound by hiring more employees. 

Where are my tax cuts and special interest lobbyists?!

 

grrrrrrr.

 

PS....I'm sorry that I originally used so many caps.  Did not mean to scream or be rude.  I have fixed them as best as I could...please advise if I missed any or if I owe you an apology...  wb

Edited October 30, 2014 by WysteriaBlue

[theplains]

My argument is that the rich need to help the poor. The rich should give jobs to the poor, and pay them a living wage, that is the best way for the rich to help the poor. 7.25 to 10 dollars an hour is not a living wage, especially for the hard working factory employees.

 

My $30/hr job was outsourced by a rich company to give jobs to the poor in another

country. That poor person is doing pretty good at $8 per hour.  It is happening even

more at larger companies in the United States.  No wonder they can report good

profits.  The American rich are not employing the American poor, or middle class, like

they used to.  But you gotta give them credit. They still know how to wave the American

flag.

 

Regards,

Jim

[Ahab]

wb, you nailed a big part of the problem, but the crux is still about how the rich treat the poor, even when the rich are made rich with government support. However the rich get their wealth they should give charitably to the poor, and I'm talking about giving, not making the poor work for pay, and especially not menial pay for their labor. Making people work for pay is what people do when they want to take advantage of someone else doing their work, work they would have to do themselves if they didn't have some way to get out of doing their work. It's the typical buy low and sell high strategy applied to the labor of others, and by doing a lot of that it creates wealth for the employer.

[WysteriaBlue]

Ahab,

 

yes, entitlements unearned are undeserved.  I give to my employees because it is my duty and honour to try and provide for them as they indeed fill the needs of the company.

but, I have never asked of any employee to do anything that I do not do myself if I am able. 

I empty trash, I talk to accountants, I make decisions that they are not capable to make.  I lift heavy product and drive a forklifts and trucks with ease.

That which I can not do, I try to make as easy for them as possible by providing tools, safety equipment and benefits to protect them and their families.

 

I have damaged my own body doing a man's work.  I do dangerous things so as not to ask them of others.  I have skills they do not, and they have skills that I do not.

I charge for their labor in order to supply them with the tools they need and vehicles and benefits for them and their families.

 

Do not assume to know me or what I am willing to do for my family of employees.  But if I can not turn some profits, then the company fails and we are all out of a job.

Not many bosses will go to battle for the rights of their employees against their own bosses and husbands, let alone their stockholders and business partners.

I cannot do as I once was able.  But my older employees are quite aware that I keep my word and take their trust in me quite seriously.

I almost lost a baby and did lose my husband for the rights of my employees not to be abused as I was..

 

It is hard ethically to try and fight for the welfare of many, not the few.

Please do not once again judge me...for you do not know me nor what I stand for ethically nor as a woman.

My company provides a service to the community that is niche and dirty to many.  But it has to be done. 

No one can be all to everyone.

I have risked much and lost much.  I would do it again, but better if given the chance.

 

You will not be standing between my maker and me when I account for my failings and shame at not being able to do more and be the best that I could be.

If I have opinions and wisdom at all, it was earned and not on the backs of others.  They too have profited off my skills and acumen and compassion.

 

It is also referred to as division of labour and not just about profit, money, greed or power. 

We all have gifts, time, strength, knowledge and funds...that some know better how to balance them is the art of wisdom.

 

You do not know me, now will you ever.  You have not worn my gloves nor stood in my shoes, nor I in yours.

You know not what I have endured nor what is in my heart, and I woud not presume to know what is in yours.

 

To presume or assume is ignorance and too easily done by all.

There are no easy answers and no quick fixes for that which is worth having.

 

We all have to do the next best right thing as well as we are able.

We are not perfect and make mistakes and have weaknesses.

 

Do not presume to think that my only goals are to buy low and sell high at others expense.

Money is not the goal of all. at least not in terms of money.  I am not the one bemoaning not being a millionaire.

[MormonFreeThinker]

 Where is the love, and the charitable giving? Some people just have too much money, and too many others just don't have enough.

 

I agree with you, if the rich cannot afford to pay their workers a living wage, why are they still rich? Why are they getting richer? 

Why is life harder for the poor? 

 

Thanks for your thoughts Ahab 

Edited October 31, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[cinepro]

I don't think CEOs should make 35 million dollars a year, but a hard working associate (with 2 other jobs) only 8.00 dollars an hour. The store manager makes about 100 thousand a year, the market manager makes more.  

 

 

Walmart has 2,000,000+ employees worldwide.  It might not be "fair" for the CEO to make $35,000,000 per year, but you do realize that if he were to suddenly see the light and reduce his salary to $1 next year, each employee would theoretically get about $17. 

 

That's $17 for the year. 

[MormonFreeThinker]

Walmart has 2,000,000+ employees worldwide.  It might not be "fair" for the CEO to make $35,000,000 per year, but you do realize that if he were to suddenly see the light and reduce his salary to $1 next year, each employee would theoretically get about $17. 

 

That's $17 for the year. 

 

The presidents (millions of dollars) + vice presidents (probably millions of dollars) + big managers (hundreds of thousands) + market managers (hundreds of thousands)  + store managers (about 100,000 dollars)  

http://corporate.walmart.com/our-story/leadership/executive-management/ (43 Rich Executive Managers) 

http://corporate.walmart.com/our-story/our-business/locations/

 

Hard working associates with experience only earn about 16,380 dollars a year, (9.00 *35 hours) * 52 weeks 

 

Please do not smile, it is not funny. If the rich cannot afford to pay their hard workers a living wage, why are they still rich? why are they getting richer? 

 

There are hard working factory workers (with experience) that only make 9.00 dollars an hour. 7.25 to 10.00 dollars an hour is not a living wage. 

I know factory workers that are only making 9.00 an hour. 

 

Do you want life easier for the rich? 

Edited October 31, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[sdc999]

 

The presidents (millions of dollars) + vice presidents (probably millions of dollars) + big managers (hundreds of thousands) + market managers (hundreds of thousands)  + store managers (about 100,000 dollars)  

http://corporate.walmart.com/our-story/leadership/executive-management/ (43 Rich Executive Managers) 

http://corporate.walmart.com/our-story/our-business/locations/

 

Hard working associates with experience only earn about 16,380 dollars a year, (9.00 *35 hours) * 52 weeks 

 

Please do not smile, it is not funny. If the rich cannot afford to pay their hard workers a living wage, why are they still rich? why are they getting richer? 

 

There are hard working factory workers (with experience) that only make 9.00 dollars an hour. 7.25 to 10.00 dollars an hour is not a living wage. 

I know factory workers that are only making 9.00 an hour. 

 

Do you want life easier for the rich? 

 

Saw a great quote tonight that you will not appreciate.

You cannot have a million dollar dream with a minimum wage work ethic.

 

I really believe that the majority who want to get ahead - will get ahead.  They will do whatever it takes.  Others, they complain about not getting paid enough, they complain about others and their success.  They want to drag others down to their level (reduce the rich) rather than trying to climb up to those successful people.  

 

I have yet to read in any of your statements, unless I've missed it, where you want people to find a way to be more successful (in position or wage) without just having it handed to them.  You keep pounding the wealth redistribution.   

 

What about your $9 factory workers?  So what.  I know a guy who started out in my business making 17k a year (the company now starts a little higher (25-30k/yr).  No college education.  Not the smartest guy in the room at that time.   What he did have was a drive to succeed.  He learned the business.  He showed up earlier than everyone else. He stayed later than everyone else.  He now makes about $250k/yr.  I can name off many others almost like him.  He's one up on the others on his position but I can cite other starting out cases that have ended up with 100k/yr.   What company you ask?  

Discount Tire Co.   Oh yes,  they do have to get their hands dirty (mike rowe would love it).  I'm no longer with that company but in a similar field.  I worked hard for what I have as well.  I managed to place myself (salary) somewhere between one of their managers and an  asst. vice president. I have shown up early and stayed late.  I still do today.  "Factory workers" tend to show up, clock in on time, do their work, clock out on time, and then go home.  The exceptions will get out of that rut and make it to the next level.   

So yes, I will smile.  You have cited "hard working" factory workers.       You can't work hard and not smart. You can't work smart and not hard.  You have to work both hard and smart to be successful.  

[Tacenda]

Sdc999, your analogy is almost spot on, until you figure in those jobs like school teachers etc. They go in early and stay late, but there ain't no way their pay will rise with that kind of extra oomph. They work for the student not for the almighty dollar. Why does government punish them so? Or the other low on the totem pole workers that seem to hold up everyone else.

[sdc999]

Tacenda,

My wife is a school teacher.  Yes, they work above and beyond.  But my wife does understand that there is a $$ cap at that level.  We are going on a mini vacation this weekend and YES, there will be papers to be graded going with us.  sigh.   

[Ahab]

wb, you misunderstood me if you thought I was judging you or even inferring that you don't try to help those who help you. I was talking in general terms about the nature of business, and all of them are in the business of making money. An employer's intent is typically to buy low or pay less and as little as possible while trying to maximize profits, and that in itself drives down what they want to pay for the labor of others otherwise their business won't make as much profit. It's just the nature of business.

And I was not bemoaning not being a millionaire. Far from it. I'll never be rich because I give and will continue to give my money to others before I ever accumulate that much money. And I would do so even if I owned a business. The only way I would ever be a millionaire is by being paid in the millions personally, and even then I would be giving most of that money to others. It's just the nature of me.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Ahab

[MormonFreeThinker]

John 13:34-35 New International Version (NIV) 34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.

Edited October 31, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[WysteriaBlue]

Yes, the model is right in order to keep a company viable and able to support and sustain growth.

I'm glad that you give well to the needy and do not want wealth just for wealth's sake.

I was also trying to say that an overall reform would be needed to help the poor and the middle classes and sustain a healthy economy where we can all earn a decent living and have choices to do the right things with wealth.

 

Best regards,

wb

[MormonFreeThinker]

Matthew 7:1 Judge not

[MormonFreeThinker]

Mormon 8:37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted