mfbukowski Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Here is what McConkie said: "Or that predators claim those few who fall by the way? The caravan moves on."What am I missing?The caravan. 2
mfbukowski Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Are you saying that the caravan should eat the dissenters instead of letting the predators get them to preserve their food supplies? Makes sense.Now why didn't I think of that?
mormonnewb Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 You are missing context. The context of the talk. The context of the question, "Test ten: Am I so living that I will be saved in the kingdom of God?"The talk is all about what each of us personally need to ask ourselves in relation to the gospel. We have the choice to either stay with the caravan and go where it is heading (the celestial kingdom), or to fall by the wayside.Here is a tidbit on how McConkie felt about seeking out those who have fallen away. From a talk in 1975 entitled "Only an Elder":"Our great need, the charge that is laid upon us, is to perfect the elders so they can feed the flock, lest the sheep perish for want of the word of God. The number one need within the Church today is to reclaim the elders so they, in turn, can “feed the flock of God.”What are the resources for saving elders? There is no secret formula. We cannot wave a wand and reclaim inactive people without effort and without struggle. But we do have the whole program of the Church, and somewhere within its framework is something which will appeal to every person who is willing to let the blessings of the gospel come into his life."GlennOkay, I stand corrected.
Robert F. Smith Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Yes, CHRIST will separate the sheep from the goats but that isn't our job. Our job is to TRY to save them ALL and let Christ sort them out (ie, the parable of the wheat and tares).Kind of like what the papal legate of Pope Innocent III said on July 22, 1209, when confronted with the Cathar and Waldensian heretics in Bezier: He was told that half the inhabitants were loyal Catholics. He said, “Kill them all and let God sort them out.” ...............................................................
mfbukowski Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) deleted Edited October 5, 2014 by mfbukowski
Bernard Gui Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) Acts 20: 25-31And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. Edited October 5, 2014 by Bernard Gui 1
rpn Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 I think Bro. Snuffer said that when the First Presidency did not overturn his excommunication --- which apparently happened soon after April conference---, they abused their power and lost their priesthood, and God told Him that he had the power now. (Though his most recent post suggests that he thinks lots of people can have the same power he has in place of the church.)
Kenngo1969 Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) No, it is not in opposition, let alone exact opposition. The parables of the Savior were about finding the lost and fallen which the Church does. The parable of the caravan is about not choosing to get left behind. Parables are not exact. Or are you suggesting that finding the lost sheep requires stopping the caravan, halting the progress of the Church, and putting everything on hold because someone stamps their feet and refuses to go on. The parable of the Lost Sheep, the coin, and the prodigal do not suggest that any of them fought the rescuer nor does the parable of the caravan suggest that when there are defectors that we should shun them and not let them rejoin. Nice try though.Well said. You said what I would have said, if I had said it. Clear as mud? I gave you a rep point. P.S.: Newb, why is it that you seem to have a penchant for imputing the least charitable, often most strained readings to the things that leaders in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints say? Edited October 5, 2014 by Kenngo1969 2
Kenngo1969 Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 I think Bro. Snuffer said that when the First Presidency did not overturn his excommunication --- which apparently happened soon after April conference---, they abused their power and lost their priesthood, and God told Him that he had the power now. (Though his most recent post suggests that he thinks lots of people can have the same power he has in place of the church.)What fun is that? Power isn't any fun unless you can lord it over somebody! That's what I say!
Kenngo1969 Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Okay, I stand corrected.You wouldn't need such correction nearly as often if your default position weren't to attribute the least charitable, often-most-strained readings to the things the Brethren say. Just sayin'!
BookofMormonLuvr Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 I skimmed the Phoenix transcript and found no reference to the Spirit not being at Oct. General Conference.
mnn727 Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Who is Snuffer? and why do we care about his obviously mistaken predictions?
BookofMormonLuvr Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) Who is Snuffer? and why do we care about his obviously mistaken predictions?Which apparently was never made.Google "Denver Snuffer Jr." if you want to know who he is.Some say he is a modern-day John the Baptist, others say he is the next Jim Harmstrom.I say he is a sincere guy who has got some things right and some things wrong... like all of us. Edited October 5, 2014 by BookofMormonLuvr
Avatar4321 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Posted October 5, 2014 So he no longer made the prediction. Good to know.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 So he no longer made the prediction. Good to know. I haven't been able to find it, and nobody here has quoted it. So until such time as it is documented it remains a rumor/accusation.
tonie Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 If I remember correctly sniffer was predicting that the Spirit would withdrawal at this conference because of his excommunication. While I have not had a chance to catch it all, the Spirit has been powerful in the parts i have caught. What say ye? Any reaction from him and his group? What say me? I say, why are we using a board dedicated to discussion of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to ridicule and mock an individual who lost his way; which lead to his expulsion from the body of the True and Every Lasting Gospel.
mnn727 Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) others say he is the next Jim Harmstrom. Who? Edited October 5, 2014 by mnn727
BookofMormonLuvr Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Who?True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_and_Living_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Saints_of_the_Last_Days
Avatar4321 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Posted October 5, 2014 What say me? I say, why are we using a board dedicated to discussion of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to ridicule and mock an individual who lost his way; which lead to his expulsion from the body of the True and Every Lasting Gospel.who exactly are you or anyone else mocking and ridicule?the first presidency is exercising the same authority they have been since the beginning. The Spirit is confirming this conference. I hope those who have been mislead including me. Snuffer recognize that. I don't want them lead astray.
tonie Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) The Spirit is confirming this conference. I hope those who have been mislead including me. Snuffer recognize that. I don't want them lead astray. I am a glad you are feeling the Spirit from Conference. Perhaps an adjustment to your opening post is in order. For example, "As one who was mislead by Denver Snuffer - he claiming the Spirit has withdrawn from the Authorities of the Church and that the Spirit would not be present at General Confernce - I will attest that the Spirit is abundant as General Conference." Edited October 5, 2014 by tonie
mormonnewb Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 P.S.: Newb, why is it that you seem to have a penchant for imputing the least charitable, often most strained readings to the things that leaders in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints say?Because so many of you have a penchant for doing just the opposite. Perhaps, by tugging from our respective extremes, we may all come NEARER to truth.
Raingirl Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Because so many of you have a penchant for doing just the opposite. Perhaps, by tugging from our respective extremes, we may all come NEARER to truth.So....what the prophets and leaders of the church say is NOT truth and they need your superior corrections and insights to - hopefully - get somewhere in the neighborhood of the the truth.Every time I have hope that you're going to 'get it', you say something to prove my hope is unfounded.
ksfisher Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Because so many of you have a penchant for doing just the opposite. Perhaps, by tugging from our respective extremes, we may all come NEARER to truth. Playing the devil's advocate?
mormonnewb Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 Playing the devil's advocate? Not just for the sake of being contrarian. However, I must confess that, by nature, I am cynical; and not just of Church leaders. I view statements of government or business leaders with the very same suspicion. In fact, I'm pretty sure that had I been around after the resurrection, I would have been standing right next to Thomas saying, "And not only do I want to see your hands, but I'd like to see two forms of ID!"And quite frankly, since the Savior could deal with Thomas, I figure that this great Church can deal with the likes of me.
mormonnewb Posted October 5, 2014 Posted October 5, 2014 So....what the prophets and leaders of the church say is NOT truth and they need your superior corrections and insights to - hopefully - get somewhere in the neighborhood of the the truth.Every time I have hope that you're going to 'get it', you say something to prove my hope is unfounded.What prophets and leaders say MAY be truth. In fact, it is very likely truth, but it is not NECESSARILY truth. If prophets were incapable of lying, then they have been deprived of their agency. And if they are incapable of being just plain wrong, then they are not mere men but gods unto themselves.
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