What Constitutes A Modest Living Allowance?

[The Nehor]

Nay!  You're richer than you realize, My Young Padawan!

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/12.4?lang=eng

 

Don't think I am there yet.

[Kenngo1969]

Don't think I am there yet.

No one who's still here is, but we're on the path.

[thatjimguy]

Well, if he was married and had children as some have suggested I suppose a lot of whatever money he acquired went there. He also allowed money to be ostentatiously spent on himself.

 

We have little data on the apostles living conditions outside of Paul. Paul traveled a lot but we do not know much about how he lived or if he acquired money and what he did with what he got.

 

Is it wrong for a prophet to own a house? Save some money instead of giving it to the poor? Live on a level above that of the impoverished?

I do know that Jesus allowed oils to be used on him. Judas had a problem with it. I guess it comes down to hoping that it works out. I cant really blame anyone for being worries with televangleisys living like they do and scamming people.

[The Nehor]

I cant really blame anyone for being worries with televangleisys living like they do and scamming people.

 

Why worried? I am disgusted by it but not really worried...well except for their souls but let's face it, they are hard to care about.

[Kenngo1969]

But then again, we must always tip the door guy.

Christ? (See 2 Nephi 9:41).

[Alan]

I personally think there should be no difference between the President of the church, or an apostle, or a mission president, or a missionary, or a Seventy etc based simply upon their ecclesiastical position. They should have what they need but no more. Like a Catholic priest.

 

If the President spends most of the time sitting in his office dealing with church stuff, all he'll need is his food etc covered. Whereas if a mission president is having to travel over a wide area etc he should receive more to cover larger expenses.

 

To each according to his need.

[wenglund]

Once again the modest living allowances of the GA's are being discussed. One of the reasons that this topic is frequently resurrected is the ambiguity of the word modest. What do you think is a modest living allowance?

 

What business is this of our's? In other words, why should we care?

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[mbh26]

Modest living allowance would legitimately be defined as sufficient for their needs (including recreation and play and retirement  and medical bills), and not more.

 

I'd venture to say that most people who pay tithing can't afford these things.  Yet if they don't pay up, they're condemned.  GAs do have these things and they have a promise of eternal life in the world to come as well.  It doesn't seem to quite add up to fair to me.  

[ERayR]

Maybe but I'm factoring in housing, food, clothing, tithing, utilities, transportation, insurance, savings, children's activities, college fund donations, repairs and maintenance on home and auto, gas, etc. I don't see getting by on much less than that.

 

As I said modest living allowance means different things to different people. 

 

If you can afford it OK but some do get by on considerable less.

[ERayR]

How would the savior live? There's got to be a hint there. 

 

How did the apostles live after he died?

 

One problem I have with the whole "What would the Savior do" thing is that it can be and is open to each individuals understanding and interpretation of what is written in the scriptures.

 

However using that standard everyone gets a robe and a pair of sandals, a home with no electricity or indoor plumbing, eats fish and bread, and walks every where you go.  Seems a bit sparse even by limited means.

[thesometimesaint]

Modest compared to what?  What is one expected to cover with this stipend?  Modest would be enough to cover the cost of adequate but not ostentatious housing, wholesome food and presentable clothing appropriate for what one does.  In some areas $100,000 would be modest.  In other parts of the world $300 would be modest. 

 

In the US for the average family of 4 it takes $130,000 per year to maintain a middle class lifestyle. I seriously doubt the stipend is anywhere near that amount.

[ERayR]

In the US for the average family of 4 it takes $130,000 per year to maintain a middle class lifestyle. I seriously doubt the stipend is anywhere near that amount.

 

Neither is mine.

[Ahab]

I'm so happy that we don't need money in heaven.

We don't really need money here either, it's just that some people insist on others using money to get things.

[ERayR]

I'm so happy that we don't need money in heaven.

 

There very well could be some medium of exchange.  Think United Order.

[thesometimesaint]

Neither is mine.

 

For better or worse we're no longer a family of 5 but a family of two with everything paid off. We didn't even own a TV for the first 10 years. City parks, the libraries, little league, scouts, and long walks were our entertainment.

[The Nehor]

 

 

 

I'd venture to say that most people who pay tithing can't afford these things.  Yet if they don't pay up, they're condemned.  GAs do have these things and they have a promise of eternal life in the world to come as well.  It doesn't seem to quite add up to fair to me.  

 

Condemned by who exactly? 

 

As far as I know General Authorities do not get a carte blanche promise of eternal life in the world to come. If anything their spiritual road is harder. There are no shortcuts to exaltation. Becoming an apostle is definitely not one.

[The Nehor]

There very well could be some medium of exchange.  Think United Order.

 

If you have inherited all the Father hath what would you need to exchange for?

[Sleeper Cell]

I personally think there should be no difference between the President of the church, or an apostle, or a mission president, or a missionary, or a Seventy etc based simply upon their ecclesiastical position. They should have what they need but no more. Like a Catholic priest.

 

If the President spends most of the time sitting in his office dealing with church stuff, all he'll need is his food etc covered. Whereas if a mission president is having to travel over a wide area etc he should receive more to cover larger expenses.

 

To each according to his need.

 

Just who decides what each person’s “need” really is?  

 

And how can we possibly hope to live the Law of Consecration if we cannot avoid second guessing what someone else’s stipend should be?.    .  

 

Unlike Catholic priests, our general authorities are married and have obligations to their families.  It is one thing to ask a general authority to live at or near a bare subsistence level.  Quit another to impose this on his family. .  

[Raingirl]

I personally think there should be no difference between the President of the church, or an apostle, or a mission president, or a missionary, or a Seventy etc based simply upon their ecclesiastical position. They should have what they need but no more. Like a Catholic priest.

 

If the President spends most of the time sitting in his office dealing with church stuff, all he'll need is his food etc covered. Whereas if a mission president is having to travel over a wide area etc he should receive more to cover larger expenses.

 

To each according to his need.

Like a Catholic priest? What exactly does that mean?

I worked for priests in the diocese and at a Catholic university. None of them had to worry about food, clothing, shelter, transportation, medical care, etc. (wish I could say the same for myself). They had the comfort of knowing all of those needs would be taken care of for a lifetime.

They all traveled regularly for pleasure and to see family. None had to do their own housekeeping. The diocesan priests had cooks. Each of the diocesan priests I worked for had sufficient discretionary funds to finance hobbies such as cigar-smoking, raising orchids in their own private greenhouse, traveling in the latest and greatest camper, etc.

Is that having what they need and no more?

[Alan]

It is the individual themselves who determines their needs.

"We have sufficient for our needs" ..... many of you will recognize that phrase.

 

My point about the Catholic priest is that they are provided with their needs, but don't make any money.

 

To give a GA a salary/stipend (there's no real difference) based on the position he occupies rather than his needs is just wrong. It is clearly wrong.

[Storm Rider]

I think this poll has value for the naive.  Living in Qatar almost all professional expats that work here are offered a salary +++ i..e car and/or driver, home/apt, insurance, one month for vacation, and one to two tickets per year for travel.  Those not in professional positions may get significantly less.  

 

For many this would seem extravagant and for others not nearly enough to compensate them to live in the Middle East.  We have few US citizens who work here; mostly English and western European.

 

For this poll, it would be helpful to get some clarification:  is housing included; travel, annual vacation, insurance and other benefits, etc?   Compensation can take many forms; at their stage it is not about money, it is about convenience and ease of doing the work.

 

I would expect the leadership to be treated in a professional manner without any need to worry about their day-to-day needs.  The purpose is to allow them to focus on their function as prophets, seers, and revelators.  

[katherine the great]

As I said modest living allowance means different things to different people.

If you can afford it OK but some do get by on considerable less.

I absolutely agree. I'm getting the impression that my figures seem kind of high. I think a big factor for families is how much parents decide to invest over time in to their children's education. Some feel obligated to subsidize and others not. We do X 5. We also have a daughter with type one diabetes and her medical expenses are considerable. Edited August 8, 2014 by katherine the great

[ERayR]

I absolutely agree. I'm getting the impression that my figures seem kind of high. I think a big factor for families is how much parents decide to invest over time in to their children's education. Some feel obligated to subsidize and others not. We do X 5. We also have a daughter with type one diabetes and her medical expenses are considerable.

 

Each family has different needs and each family has a different ability as to how and to what extent they can meet those needs.

[Thinking]

For this poll, it would be helpful to get some clarification:  is housing included; travel, annual vacation, insurance and other benefits, etc?   Compensation can take many forms; at their stage it is not about money, it is about convenience and ease of doing the work.

 

And yet the only description given to the members from the brethren is modest living allowance.

[ERayR]

And yet the only description given to the members from the brethren is modest living allowance.

 

Yep and yet even the posters on this board cannot define what a modest living allowance is.