Ordain Women Responds To The First Presidency Statement

[JAHS]

"We sustain the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and are grateful to receive guidance from our leaders. We pray that they will continue to respond directly to the needs and desires of Church members and take their concerns and questions to God. The statement describes current church policy on priesthood, in which “only men are ordained to serve in priesthood offices.” There is no mention of why women cannot be ordained or that they will not be in the future. We continue in the sincere hope that our leaders will prayerfully bring this question before the Lord.

We also acknowledge that the statement publicly discloses the official definition of apostasy from Church Handbook of Instructions Volume 1, a volume of church policy that is available to thousands of male leaders but restricted to only nine women in the Church. We affirm that we are not acting in opposition to the prophet or the Church, have not taught false doctrine and do not meet any definition of apostasy.

Ordain Women Executive Board:

April Bennett

Chelsea Strayer

Debra Jenson

Hannah Wheelwright

Heather Beal

Kate Kelly

Lorie Winder

Nancy Ross"

 

Perhaps every ward needs to have a class on the definition of Apostasy as stated in the Church Handbook. Hard to believe they can be so obtuse on this.

[BCSpace]

The fact that KK was excommunicated for doing exactly what OW does should be a big clue.  He who hath an ear to hear, let him hear.

[jwhitlock]

One of the more misleading items in their statement is that the handbook is restricted to only nine women in the church. Anyone, including sisters, can access the content through their bishops, and many do just that. Hardly restricted, in that case.

[blooit]

Sounds like a comprehensive list of "excommunications to be."

[Calm]

"We pray that they will continue to respond directly to the needs and desires of Church members and take their concerns and questions to God."

Sigh....

[Calm]

Sounds like a comprehensive list of "excommunications to be."

If they truly sustain the FP and 12, perhaps if Kelly does appeal all the way and get rejected they may realize they are pushing their interpretation out of line to what is meant (though it seems unlikely, I have known people who want something so badly they hear the opposite to what is actually said, so I am open to this being a possibility here) and change their behaviour.

[Garden Girl]

 

"We also acknowledge that the statement publicly discloses the official definition of apostasy from Church Handbook of Instructions Volume 1, a volume of church policy that is available to thousands of male leaders but restricted to only nine women in the Church. We affirm that we are not acting in opposition to the prophet or the Church, have not taught false doctrine and do not meet any definition of

This statement makes it sound like women have no access to the Church Handbook of Instructions...  whenever I have requested a meeting with the bishop to discuss a question I have on policy... the bishops have pulled out the CHI and have gone over the policy as stated in the handbook with me as they counseled me, turning the book so I could read with them.  I'd like to know what exactly the OW statement means by the CHI being "restricted to only nine women."  If I understand it correctly, these "thousands" of male leaders handle their meetings with male members in the same way as female members who meet with them in regard to questions the members may have..  I don't know what "nine women" the OW statement refers to, but I have never had any problem having access to what was contained in the Handbook during my meetings with bishops.

 

GG

[Calm]

Probably the three general presidencies, but I would like to know why they think that (is there some reason the general female presidencies would need it where stake and ward female presidents don't?)

[MorningStar]

Man they are annoying!  If they listened to recent Conference talks, they would realize they have been answered.  They're not going to rest until they are answered, "Dear Ordain Women ......."  And then of course the letter continues with telling them how wrong the church has been and that they should be ordained.  BAH!!!! 

[The Nehor]

Probably the three general presidencies, but I would like to know why they think that (is there some reason the general female presidencies would need it where stake and ward female presidents don't?)

 

The Church Handbook of Instructions is limited to the Bishopric and Stake Presidencies. Other Priesthood and Auxiliary presidencies do not get access to the full book. There are other books covering these responsibilities. Most of the information in the CHI is only needed by people who are spiritually counseling others as their Priesthood leader, dealing with confessions, administering discipline, and administering a Church unit. A local Relief Society President does not need access just like the Sunday School President and the Elder's Quorum President do not need access. General Auxiliary Presidencies do.

 

 

We also acknowledge that the statement publicly discloses the official definition of apostasy from Church Handbook of Instructions Volume 1, a volume of church policy that is available to thousands of male leaders but restricted to only nine women in the Church. We affirm that we are not acting in opposition to the prophet or the Church, have not taught false doctrine and do not meet any definition of apostasy.

 

Were they trying to be subtly snarky or just openly sarcastic? Either way they really need to work on whatever they were trying to do. 

[Calm]

"General Auxiliary Presidencies do."

Why them and not Stake?

[Avatar4321]

I can understand why Joseph was frustrated with us quite a bit. We do learn slowly.

[Stone holm]

"General Auxiliary Presidencies do."

Why them and not Stake?

Perhaps so the Apostles don't have to pull out the book and read it to them? No idea otherwise.

[Storm Rider]

If you want access go talk to your bishop.  Is there really an issue that an individual must ask rather than possess the actual book itself?  Few men have the book and few leaders also.  This is the mole hill being made into a mountain.  

[thesometimesaint]

 

"We sustain the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and are grateful to receive guidance from our leaders. We pray that they will continue to respond directly to the needs and desires of Church members and take their concerns and questions to God. The statement describes current church policy on priesthood, in which “only men are ordained to serve in priesthood offices.” There is no mention of why women cannot be ordained or that they will not be in the future. We continue in the sincere hope that our leaders will prayerfully bring this question before the Lord.

We also acknowledge that the statement publicly discloses the official definition of apostasy from Church Handbook of Instructions Volume 1, a volume of church policy that is available to thousands of male leaders but restricted to only nine women in the Church. We affirm that we are not acting in opposition to the prophet or the Church, have not taught false doctrine and do not meet any definition of apostasy.

Ordain Women Executive Board:

April Bennett

Chelsea Strayer

Debra Jenson

Hannah Wheelwright

Heather Beal

Kate Kelly

Lorie Winder

Nancy Ross"

 

Perhaps every ward needs to have a class on the definition of Apostasy as stated in the Church Handbook. Hard to believe they can be so obtuse on this.

 

 

Sophistry mixed in with a great deal of hubris.

[Buzzard]

Usually, the line coming out of a child who has been reprimanded is along the lines of "He hit me first!" or "It wasn't me!".  This particular group of sisters and ex-sisters seems to be screaming "See, I told you what we did was right!".

Not trying to be flippant or dismissive, really, I'm not. But this bunch is starting to get boring. 

[Stone holm]

If the Sisters had their own copy of both volumes of the General Handbook, they might start reading it.  That could cause all kinds of problems, its similar to the Catholics who for years discouraged reading the Bible -- if a person wanted to know what the Bible said then they could go ask the Priest.  That prevented all kinds of private interpretation and decreased the number of people who needed to be burned at the stake.  Same reasoning applies here, there is no need for a general distribution of the handbook to people who do not hold the keys of authority -- remember Dalin Oaks has indicated they have the full blessings of the Priesthood, so they do not need to bother their pretty little heads with such things.

[Buckeye]

If the Sisters had their own copy of both volumes of the General Handbook, they might start reading it.  That could cause all kinds of problems, its similar to the Catholics who for years discouraged reading the Bible -- if a person wanted to know what the Bible said then they could go ask the Priest.  That prevented all kinds of private interpretation and decreased the number of people who needed to be burned at the stake.  Same reasoning applies here, there is no need for a general distribution of the handbook to people who do not hold the keys of authority -- remember Dalin Oaks has indicated they have the full blessings of the Priesthood, so they do not need to bother their pretty little heads with such things.

 

Women don't need access to the CHI in order to understand the nuances of church governance.  Unlike men, they are born with natural perfect understandings. 

[Calm]

Women don't need access to the CHI in order to understand the nuances of church governance.  Unlike men, they are born with natural perfect understandings.

We have a inborn link to the Cosmic Mind which allows us perfect access to any information about anything anytime we want.

[The Nehor]

We have a inborn link to the Cosmic Mind which allows us perfect access to any information about anything anytime we want.

 

Every woman I have dated was defective then. That actually explains a lot.

[Calm]

If you check your future dates, properly working models will have a quality control stamp behind their right ear.

[Damien the Leper]

I have a copy of the CHI. Women are more than welcome to read it, borrow it, photocopy pages, etc. As long as I get it back. I'm also more than willing to purchase a copy/copies for women to have as a reference. Not a big deal at all.

[Calm]

Out of curiosity, where would you purchase this since they are not for sale by the Church itself....or are you referring to a different CHI?

[Damien the Leper]

Out of curiosity, where would you purchase this since they are not for sale by the Church itself....or are you referring to a different CHI?

 

Bookman's. It's a used book store. A couple months ago, when I bought mine, they were $2 each and there were five or six on the shelf. It's the same one my bishop uses. I say my bishop because I have good relationship with the bishop whose ward boundaries I'm in.

[Calm]

That is just wrong on so many levels, including the Church whose rules it is violating by selling them doesn't charge units or individuals who they give it too.