Unordain Men

[Pahoran]

Announcing the formation of a new pressure group: Men Intently Seeking Enhanced Religious Activity Beyond Leadership Eminence.

We are a group of men who are tired of the spiritual inequality that exists in the Mormon Church. Because while both men and women have equal access to all the blessings of the Priesthood, both in this life and in eternity, only men are required to shoulder the responsibilities of the Priesthood.

This is manifestly unfair and unequal. And we demand equal treatment!

[teddyaware]

Announcing the formation of a new pressure group: Men Intently Seeking Enhanced Religious Activity Beyond Leadership Eminence.

We are a group of men who are tired of the spiritual inequality that exists in the Mormon Church. Because while both men and women have equal access to all the blessings of the Priesthood, both in this life and in eternity, only men are required to shoulder the responsibilities of the Priesthood.

This is manifestly unfair and unequal. And we demand equal treatment!

I like the acronym M.I.S.E.R.A.B.L.E. And what's good for the LDS "goose" is also good for the LDS "gander." It will be interesting to see all the nursing moms having to attend those early morning priesthhood meetings with "the little one" in tow... (Young Female Bishop speaks up in P.E.C meeting while her baby cries up a storm): "Excuse me, brethren and sisters, while I give little Abigail her breakfast."

Edited June 27, 2014 by teddyaware

[jkwilliams]

Don't men already have the right to refuse priesthood ordination?

[teddyaware]

Don't men already have the right to refuse priesthood ordination?

Pahoran isn't talking about shirking priesthood ordination. He's talking about willing believers, both male and female, equally sharing the priesthood's responsibilities, accountabilities and labors.

Edited June 27, 2014 by teddyaware

[jkwilliams]

Pahoran isn't talking about shirking priesthood ordination. He's talking about willing believers, both male and female, equally sharing the priesthood's accountabilities, responsibilities and labors.

 

Actually, he's talking about the exact opposite of that. It's supposed to be funny, apparently.

[teddyaware]

Actually, he's talking about the exact opposite of that. It's supposed to be funny, apparently.

Wrong. Read the original post again and you'll see that Pahoran is, through the use of comedic sarcasm, decrying the apparent inequality found in men having to shoulder all the burdens of priesthood responsibility.

Edited June 27, 2014 by teddyaware

[Senator]

 

both in this life and in eternity, only men are required to shoulder the responsibilities of the Priesthood.

 

Is this true?

 

Is not the Relief Society a subset of the priesthood, exercising in its power and authority?

Is the mandate of the RS not a responsibility to fulfill?

 

Your premise is faulty.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Senator

[stemelbow]

The question arises, if being able to hold the priesthood is to benefit the holder, why are some deprived of having the opportunity to be so blessed? If holding the priesthood is of no eternal benefit to the holder, than we've been told some untruths by our leaders.

If "men are priesthood bearers" is some eternal truth, then what authority to women hold in eternity if any and how are they to know about and practice it here?

[Rain]

It was easy to see the sarcasm, not so easy to see the comedic part of it. It comes out rather biting and I did not support OW or really or have much sympathy towards it. This seems to me more of of a rub your face in it kind of thing though I am sure Pahoran didn't mean it that way.

Yes, women share those responsibilities. Ours are just not always specifically labeled.

And the nursing mothers gag? Uncalled for. Nursing mothers sit in those types of meetings all the time. Babies nurse all day long, not just the morning and women still manage to get to ward council, BYC, and other meetings. Besides there are health reasons men may have a hard time in those meetings. Are we going to make fun of that as well?

Edited June 27, 2014 by Rain

[busybee]

In the words of Sheri L.Dew - "Lighten up!!!"

[watermelongirl]

Yesterday Bukowski commented that women don't post often here. It all makes sense now.

[Rain]

In the words of Sheri L.Dew - "Lighten up!!!"

 

Interesting choice of quotes since that was first made famous in LDS circles by Chieko Okazaki, not Sheri Dew, in her book Lighten Up.  Her book talks about not being down on yourself so much, to enjoy life and not be weighed down by the burdens of every day life..     

Edited June 27, 2014 by Rain

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Of course Pahoran would start this thread. He is a guy. What we need is a woman's view in this thread.

[The Nehor]

Is this true?

 

Is not the Relief Society a subset of the priesthood, exercising in its power and authority?

Is the mandate of the RS not a responsibility to fulfill?

 

Your premise is faulty.

 

No, the relief society is not a subset of the Priesthood. It is an auxiliary organization operating under the direction of the Priesthood.

 

Women enter the order of the Priesthood through temple ordinances.

[Tacenda]

It was easy to see the sarcasm, not so easy to see the comedic part of it. It comes out rather biting and I did not support OW or really or have much sympathy towards it. This seems to me more of of a rub your face in it kind of thing though I am sure Pahoran didn't mean it that way.

Yes, women share those responsibilities. Ours are just not always specifically labeled.

And the nursing mothers gag? Uncalled for. Nursing mothers sit in those types of meetings all the time. Babies nurse all day long, not just the morning and women still manage to get to ward council, BYC, and other meetings. Besides there are health reasons men may have a hard time in those meetings. Are we going to make fun of that as well?

Just saw this on another board....

 

http://www.hillaryhunt.com/blog/from-one-who-left

 

One quote c/p'd from the article, it's an insightful article IMO.  

 

"If women had the priesthood, men would slack off, and we women would have to do even more. When only men have the priesthood, they are forced to better themselves. Whereas women are born awesome, so we don't need that extra boost like the men do."

This one comes in slightly different variations, but the general theme is always the same. What I hear is that 1) women, stay in your assigned sphere so men can feel useful and strong and 2) men are kind of useless if they aren't micromanaged by the demands of the priesthood. 3) Women couldn't possibly handle being mothers and clergywomen in their church, but somehow men can be fathers and Bishops. Demeaning attitudes towards men abound in this argument, even while we're being told that it is feminists who "just hate men."   

 

[Senator]

No, the relief society is not a subset of the Priesthood. It is an auxiliary organization operating under the direction of the Priesthood.

It is also called an appendage. Whatever you want to call it, it is a priesthood functionary, and operates in, with and under Priesthood power and authority

Women enter the order of the Priesthood through temple ordinances.

Women enter the Priesthood order and receive Priesthood power and authority by the mere action of being set apart in any one of the Priesthood auxiliaries, appendages or subsets.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Senator

[The Nehor]

It is also called an appendage. Whatever you want to call it, it is a priesthood functionary, and operates in, with and under Priesthood power and authority

 

In a more limited sense than I think you are saying yes.

 

 

Women enter the Priesthood order and receive Priesthood power and authority by the mere action of being set apart in any one of the Priesthood auxiliaries, appendages or subsets.

 

No.

[Storm Rider]

I am not one of those that believes that women are naturally more spiritual than men; that women are glorious hard workers while men are slackers, etc. etc. etc.  

 

A slacker is a slacker regardless of gender and this is the same for one who is spiritual.  In some ways we may generally express these qualities differently, but the principles that motivate behaviors are the same.

 

It would be a wonderful thing if each could get exactly what they wish for in life.  One readily discovers that having is not nearly so interesting as wanting.  Humans too often want what they do not have for other reasons that the one that is obvious.  Happiness is found in a mud hut just as easily, if not more so, as in a mansion.  

 

On this Board answers have been provided repeatedly for many of the issues and yet it is as if no one learns or remembers.  They maintain their same positions, spout the same drivel, and maintain their same agenda.  When I see this I conclude that individuals are not really interested in being happy, at peace, or joyful.  What they are interested in is their own agenda; the aggrandizement of self and being rebellious for its own sake. 

 

When given a rose and all that is commented is that it has thorns what does it say about the observer?  

[Senator]

No.

Yes.

"the Relief Society “[has] been given power and authority to do a great many things. The work which they do is done by divine authority....

Thus, it is truly said that Relief Society is not just a class for women but something they belong to—a divinely established appendage to the priesthood....

...We are not accustomed to speaking of women having the authority of the priesthood in their Church callings, but what other authority can it be? When a woman—young or old—is set apart to preach the gospel as a full-time missionary, she is given priesthood authority to perform a priesthood function. The same is true when a woman is set apart to function as an officer or teacher in a Church organization under the direction of one who holds the keys of the priesthood. Whoever functions in an office or calling received from one who holds priesthood keys exercises priesthood authority in performing her or his assigned duties."

[The Nehor]

Yes.

"the Relief Society “[has] been given power and authority to do a great many things. The work which they do is done by divine authority....

Thus, it is truly said that Relief Society is not just a class for women but something they belong to—a divinely established appendage to the priesthood....

...We are not accustomed to speaking of women having the authority of the priesthood in their Church callings, but what other authority can it be? When a woman—young or old—is set apart to preach the gospel as a full-time missionary, she is given priesthood authority to perform a priesthood function. The same is true when a woman is set apart to function as an officer or teacher in a Church organization under the direction of one who holds the keys of the priesthood. Whoever functions in an office or calling received from one who holds priesthood keys exercises priesthood authority in performing her or his assigned duties."

 

Completely true but you said they "enter" the Priesthood.

 

Also, women do not enter the Priesthood Order until they receive temple ordinances.

[ERayR]

Announcing the formation of a new pressure group: Men Intently Seeking Enhanced Religious Activity Beyond Leadership Eminence.

We are a group of men who are tired of the spiritual inequality that exists in the Mormon Church. Because while both men and women have equal access to all the blessings of the Priesthood, both in this life and in eternity, only men are required to shoulder the responsibilities of the Priesthood.

This is manifestly unfair and unequal. And we demand equal treatment!

 

That would be:  MISERABLE.  right.

 

Do we have to publicly declare our support.?  While in agreement with its precepts I don't want the Danites to visit me either.

[Senator]

Completely true but you said they "enter" the Priesthood.

 

Also, women do not enter the Priesthood Order until they receive temple ordinances.

 

Meh, a game of semantics.

 

Regardless, this all floats us down the river from my original point that USU's premise is faultly, which even including your remarks, I say still stands.

 

But it was all a joke anyways, so who cares.

[mfbukowski]

Don't men already have the right to refuse priesthood ordination?

Absolutely not.

 

We are herded into a little room with no ventilation at gunpoint and threatened with death if we do not participate.  Since death without the priesthood means burning eternally in hell, everyone participates.

 

It's a horrible thing.  And then we are force to listen to people's problems and not even paid.

 

It's pure slavery.

[mfbukowski]

Of course Pahoran would start this thread. He is a guy. What we need is a woman's view in this thread.

Didn't you get the message that we scared away all the women? 

[The Nehor]

Meh, a game of semantics.

 

Never wander into areas where distinctions are important unless you are prepared to be exacting about semantics.