The Whole Truth About Helmuth Hubener?

[mormonnewb]

Today, I came across a blog post about Helmuth Hubener, the LDS boy who was executed for distributing anti-Nazi leaflets in Germany during World War II. Even as a convert, I was already familiar with the story. However, my mouth dropped when I read that he was excommunicated by the Church shortly after his arrest.

Is this true? Was he excommunicated prior to his execution and then posthumously rebaptized?

If so, how is it the case that the Church can keep telling HALF of this story? BYU's hour-long documentary on Hubener doesn't mention it. The Church History Manual doesn't mention the excommunication. This to me seems like the height of mendacity -- to claim this young hero as one of our own, even though, we expelled him from the flock for his act of heroism.

Someone PLEASE explain to me what I am not seeing properly here because, right now, it appears that I belong to the one HALF-true Church.

[jwhitlock]

The "church" did not excommunicate him. His branch president, who also was a Nazi Party member, excommunicated him once he was arrested. German Latter-day Saints did not have communication with SLC during this time and so were doing things on their own. Once the war was over, and the church was able to review the situation, the excommunication was reversed.

[jwhitlock]

To me, one of the significant points of the Huebener situation is that even when leaders make significant mistakes, from an eternal perspective things eventually get worked out correctly. In this case, a local leader significantly overstepped his bounds. Once the connection was restored between the German Saints and church leadership in Salt Lake, they were able to remedy a number of errors that happened and odd procedures that crept in during the war.

 

The other point that is of interest is how far and how quickly church congregations can start straying if left without direction from living prophets. Very similar to what happened in the New Testament.

[halconero]

Yeah, the Latter-day Saint church in Germany was not in "communion" with SLC for the duration of the war. There were some Latter-day Saint members of the Nazi party, of which his branch president was one, who excommunicated him for his anti-Nazi activities.

After the war this, among other irregularities, was reversed. I believe Helmulth didn't even have a vicarious baptism done on his behalf, they simply said that the excommunication wasn't valid.

I read this from a book sold in Deseret Books, so take it for what it's worth. Let's not make mountains out of mole hills.

[mormonnewb]

The "church" did not excommunicate him. His branch president, who also was a Nazi Party member, excommunicated him once he was arrested. German Latter-day Saints did not have communication with SLC during this time and so were doing things on their own. Once the war was over, and the church was able to review the situation, the excommunication was reversed.

To me, this does not change the fact that the Church is leaving out information that is SIGNIFICANT to the story.

Dr. King once said, "A fact is the absence of contradiction. The truth is the presence of coherence." Omitting that Hubener was excommunicated doesnt lend itself to creating a coherent narrative. For one, it allows the hearer to assume that the saints courageously stood with their brother. And while it doesn't explicitly say so, it could have removed any confusion by stating that just the opposite was the case. THAT would be the presence of coherence,

You also make the point that this is a great lesson about the dangers of not being in communication with living prophets. However, that lesson can't be learned from this telling of the story. So why the half-truth?

[Duncan]

A few years ago there was a man in my ward who fought for Germany in WW2 and then joined the Church some years later. He told us that he wasn't surprised Huebner got exed and then executed 

 

 

 

Just  a question, if the Church "is leaving out information that is significant to the story" then how did you find out?

[mormonnewb]

A few years ago there was a man in my ward who fought for Germany in WW2 and then joined the Church some years later. He told us that he wasn't surprised Huebner got exed and then executed 

 

 

 

Just  a question, if the Church "is leaving out information that is significant to the story" then how did you find out?

From the source of all truth -- Wikipedia.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_Hübener

The source for the excommunication story comes from a German book (see Footnote 6). I do not read German, so I'm asking here if someone has any contradictory information.

I have looked on lds.org and did not find ANY mention of his excommunication. Once again, I may have missed it. If so, I will be VERY happy to learn that my Church goes out of its way to be truthful, even when the truth isn't pretty.

[jwhitlock]

To me, this does not change the fact that the Church is leaving out information that is SIGNIFICANT to the story.

Dr. King once said, "A fact is the absence of contradiction. The truth is the presence of coherence." Omitting that Hubener was excommunicated doesnt lend itself to creating a coherent narrative. For one, it allows the hearer to assume that the saints courageously stood with their brother. And while it doesn't explicitly say so, it could have removed any confusion by stating that just the opposite was the case. THAT would be the presence of coherence,

You also make the point that this is a great lesson about the dangers of not being in communication with living prophets. However, that lesson can't be learned from this telling of the story. So why the half-truth?

 

We've had this discussion before about BYU and official church communications. You're beating a dead horse; it's not worth going the rounds again on this. You're simply making a wrong assumption here to set up a false rationalization about the church intentionally omitting information.

[Duncan]

From the source of all truth -- Wikipedia.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_Hübener

The source for the excommunication story comes from a German book (see Footnote 6). I do not read German, so I'm asking here if someone has any contradictory information.

I have looked on lds.org and did not find ANY mention of his excommunication. Once again, I may have missed it. If so, I will be VERY happy to learn that my Church goes out of its way to be truthful, even when the truth isn't pretty.

 

 

https://ldsmag.com/article/1/11597/1/page-1

 

here you go! exed, executed and reinstated and all on the same page!

[Calm]

Excommunication discussed here in detail:

http://www.mormonchannel.org/legacy/42

It was apparently just announced, no church court. His membership record has a note "excommunication was a mistake" iirc.

Edited June 22, 2014 by calmoriah

[BCSpace]

To me, this does not change the fact that the Church is leaving out information that is SIGNIFICANT to the story.

 

 

I think you're illustrating perfectly why the info isn't signifcant at all.  Instead of affecting the overall outcome, it's a stumbling block to some.

[strappinglad]

I'm more curious about what happened to the Branch President who overstepped his authority. To say that Hubener was exed would be misleading in that the process was reversed and it was as if it had not happened. I supposed there could have been an addendum linked to the story that would give more detail.

[Mystery Meat]

Has it really come to this? Really? Now we are just looking for reasons to get angry.

[smac97]

A few things about this issue merit observation:

1. The excommunication of Helmut Hubener was by his local LDS leader, Arthur Zander, who excommunicated Hubener on February 15, 1942 (ten days after his arrest by the Gestapo) for distributing anti-Nazi materials.

2. One of Hubener's friends, Rudi Wobbe, noted that Hubener typed some of the leaflets on the typewriter belonging to his LDS branch and recruited two fellow Mormons to distribute them, and in in doing so alienated some Church members, including his branch president, Zander, who was a member of the Nazi party.
 
3. Here is a brief summary of the situation that provides some useful context (emphases added):
 

In 1937, LDS President Heber Grant had visited Germany and urged the members to remain, get along, and not cause trouble. Consequently, some LDS members saw Huebner as a troublemaker who made things tough for other Mormons. Local LDS leader Arthur Zander was a fervent member of the Nazi Party, even to the extent of affixing notices to the church door stating "Jews not welcome" since 1938. He had attempted to protect others of his religious group and thus had excommunicated the young man, but in his haste and likely fear, had done so without proper authority, without first obtaining his district president's permission. That district president was Otto Berndt, who, in fact, was sympathetic to Hübener and was suspected of assisting and encouraging the boy. Berndt was soon after questioned by the Gestapo and released with an ominous warning: "After Jews, you Mormons will be next." Hübener was arrested by German authorities and two days later was excommunicated by local authorities of the LDS Church. Four years later and after the war, Hübener was posthumously reinstated in the LDS Church in 1946, with the note "excommunicated by mistake", because the specific process required for excommunication from the LDS Church was not followed by Arthur Zander, Hübener's local church leader at the time. 

 
4. This blog article also includes some useful context (emphasis added):
 

Of course, it is well known that Hübener’s Branch President was a member of the Nazi party and had Hübener excommunicated after his arrest. This is fertile subject matter for plenty of criticism in the Bloggernacle. But in truth, the Branch President was placed in a very difficult situation of either supporting Hübener and thereby putting his congregation in danger, or acting in the interest of the congregation and trying to gain favor in the eyes of the government. Whether his decision was just or not, only God can judge. But Hübener’s fate with the Gestapo was sealed regardless of any ecclesiastical action taken by the Branch President against him.

 
5. This Sunstone article also includes some useful context (emphases added):
 

Back in Hamburg Hubener’s arrest set off another chain of events. On the Sunday after the arrest, Karl, Rudi, Hubener’s mother, and grandmother all attended the St. Georg branch, where they heard Brother Friedrich Jakobi say: "I’m glad they caught him. If I’d known what he was doing, I’d have shot him myself.’’13 The next Sunday, February 15th, President Zollner wrote "Excommunicated" on Hubener’s membership record. He did this with the apparent consent of Interim West German Mission President, Anton Huck, although there is no evidence that a Church court was convened. Nor is it clear that external threats to the survival of the Church necessitated the excommunication, is (At least one other branch president felt that Hubener’s actions created no immediate danger to the Church’s well-being.)  

 

These events, however, can only be understood in the context of a tense, suspicion-filled situation. Gestapomen had been attending branch meetings, contributing to the long-standing fears of some members for the continued existence of the Church as well as for their very lives. Additionally, there were no American Church authorities available to whom the local German leaders could turn for counsel in this time of near-panic. Having had little previous experience in Church government, some now tended to see Hubener’s actions, not as the religious and patriotic idealism he claimed, but as an almost criminal disregard for Mormon doctrine.  

 

Even District President Otto Berndt, considered by most to be a liberal and therefore under close scrutiny by the Gestapo, did not wish to compromise himself by openly opposing or even overturning this "excommunication"--though he did refuse to actively support Zollner’s decision by co-signing the excommunication statement. It wasn’t until well after the war when, on 11 November 1946, he and the new mission president, Max Zimmer, wrote "excommunication done by mistake" on Hubener’s membership record. Later, Zimmer’s successor, Jean Wunderlich, notified the Salt Lake leadership of the affair, and on 24 January, 1948, the First Presidency ordered a similar notation placed on the membership record.

 

...

 

Throughout their investigation of the case, the Gestapo strongly suspected that Hubener had been acting as a "front" for some mysterious agent.  Hugo Hubener, the Storm Trooper who had always distrusted the Mormons told the police that he suspected "that liberal" Otto Berndt of corrupting his stepson.  (District President) Berndt was picked up for questioning and held for four days at Gestapo headquarters.  As president of the Hamburg District, Berndt knew that the Gestapo's judgment of him could affect every Church member in Germany.  He prayed earnestly for guidance and, as he reports, the Lord supplied him the right words throughout his four days of detention.  Finally, at the end of that time, the Gestapo, apparently satisfied, he was released.  Although Berndt remembers nothing he said or did during those four days, he does vividly recall his release, when a Gestapo officer accompanied him from his cell to the exit.  "Make no mistake about it, Berndt," the man told him, "When we have this war behind us, when we have time to devote to it and after we have eliminated the Jews, you Mormons are next!"

 
It should go without saying, but given the absurdity of the OP in this thread, I suppose we'll have to explain the obvious:

• All of these things happened in the geopolitical epicenter of World War II, the most destructive war in the history of the world.
• These things happened during a time when LDS leaders in Germany were cut off from the rest of the Church, including its leadership.
• These things happened in a geopolitical context that was twisted with fear - real, legitimate fear - of one of the most evil regimes in the history of the world.  Today we have adopted words like "Nazi" and "storm troopers" and "brown shirts" and "Gestapo" for their exaggerated rhetorical effect.  These people were facing the real Nazis, storm troopers, Gestapo, etc.  As this article appropriately notes: "We certainly cannot judge those who remained silent in Germany or opposed the efforts of these three brave LDS young men.  The pressures to support the German government before and during the war were enormous, the propaganda spread by the Nazis was compelling, and the risks of showing any signs of rebellion were swift and terrifying.  Only God can judge the local branch president who mistakenly excommunicated young Helmuth after his arrest."
• Hubener's excommunication happened in violation of the Church's doctrines and guidelines.
• Hubener's excommunication was reversed shortly after the war, that is, as soon as the LDS Church learned about it.

The OP accuses the Church of "the height of mendacity."  The only "mendacity" I see in this thread is the execrable attempt to leverage Hubener against his own faith.
 
I will close by quoting from a letter Hubener wrote on the day of his execution:
 

I am very grateful to my Heavenly Father that my miserable life will come to an end tonight–I could not bear it any longer anyway. My Father in Heaven knows that I have done nothing wrong. I am just sorry that I had to break the Word of Wisdom at my last hour. I know that God lives and He will be the Just Judge in this matter. I look forward to seeing you in a better world!

 

Your friend and brother in the Gospel,

 

Helmuth

 
Let us remember these words.  And let us not leave unanswered the repugnant efforts of the enemies of our faith - of Hubener's faith - to exploit Hubener's experience to attack the faith that he stood by until the very day of his death.

 
Thanks,
 
-Smac

Edited June 22, 2014 by smac97

[omni]

I'm more concerned with the Lord calling a member of the Nazi Party to be branch president. 

[Garden Girl]

 

It should go without saying, but given the absurdity of the OP in this thread, I suppose we'll have to explain the obvious:

 

• Hubener's excommunication happened in violation of the Church's doctrines and guidelines.
• Hubener's excommunication was reversed shortly after the war, that is, as soon as the LDS Church learned about it.

The OP accuses the Church of "the height of mendacity."  The only "mendacity" I see in this thread is the execrable attempt to leverage Hubener against his own faith.

 

I will close by quoting from a letter Hubener wrote on the day of his execution:

 

I am very grateful to my Heavenly Father that my miserable life will come to an end tonight–I could not bear it any longer anyway. My Father in Heaven knows that I have done nothing wrong. I am just sorry that I had to break the Word of Wisdom at my last hour. I know that God lives and He will be the Just Judge in this matter. I look forward to seeing you in a better world!

 

Your friend and brother in the Gospel,

Helmuth

 

 

-Smac

 

Thank you, Smac...

 

GG

[Calm]

Omni,

You should listen to the podcast I linked to. It deals with the environment at that time, why people were accepting of the Nazis and even joined them. What made Helmuth a remarkable young man is that he could see through the facade and was able to even predict with great accuracy future outcomes, even though he was only 16. The Gestapo were convinced there was an adult involved. Even a college professor, iirc, because of the unusual intelligence and insight the boy had.

The comment by the Nobel Laureate where he stated 'why did he see and I did not, why did he do and I did not' was the most moving part of the podcast for me. What an awful burden to carry.

Otoh the ability to forgive that Karl was able to experience after his extreme hardships (termed miraculous by him) teaches us that such burdens can be placed at Christ's feet whether one is the victim or the sinner.

Edited June 22, 2014 by calmoriah

[omni]

Omni,

You should listen to the podcast I linked to. It deals with the environment at that time, why people were accepting of the Nazis and even joined them. What made Helmuth a remarkable young man is that he could see through the facade and was able to even predict with great accuracy future outcomes, even though he was only 16. The Gestapo were convinced there was an adult involved. Even a college professor, iirc, because of the unusual intelligence and insight the boy had.

The comment by the Nobel Laureate where he stated 'why did he see and I did not, why did he do and I did not' was the most moving part of the podcast for me. What an awful burden to carry.

Otoh the ability to forgive that Karl was able to experience after his extreme hardships (termed miraculous by him) teaches us that such burdens can be placed at Christ's feet whether one is the victim or the sinner.

 

I can understand why the district president would call him to BP, what I don't understand is why God would presumably inspire him to do this.

[cinepro]

What exactly are the implications of a posthumous reinstatement to the Church?  After all, John D. Lee was reinstated too, so I'm mystified on what the standards are (and what it means).

[cinepro]

The "church" did not excommunicate him. His branch president, who also was a Nazi Party member, excommunicated him once he was arrested. German Latter-day Saints did not have communication with SLC during this time and so were doing things on their own. Once the war was over, and the church was able to review the situation, the excommunication was reversed.

 

So if a local leader excommunicates someone it has no effect? 

 

John Dehlin and Kate Kelly will be so relieved.

[Calm]

Nazis were not all the fanatics that we see in depictions to. It was at that time seen as just another political party like the democrats and republicans are viewed now...and given that good things were happening in the country at the time, people had food again and shelter....a good life and Hilter appeared in many ways to be a reasonable and charitable man that LDS could get along with...he encouraged people to not smoke or drink and refrained himself, he apparently instituted a "Pot Sunday" where families would eat one mel once a month and donate what was saved to the poor. It was easier to focus on the good the Nazis were doing and see oneself as part of that.

It is when it developed and lines were no longer so gray, when the sign on the chapel door said "no Jews allowed" which could only mean one man, the convert Solomon who was Jewish by lineage, though Christian by faith who they could see outside through the window crying in despair that those he saw as family had turned him away, though later at least there were youth that gathered at his home to comfort him....it is during those times we can ponder what might have been if that branch president had chosen a different path and supported his efforts rather than try to distance the rest of his flock from the young men; perhaps Mormons would have joined Jews and JW in the camps and in death as threatened but at least those of us alive today would be abe to brag about how noble and brave our people always were from the safety of our homes.

Edited June 22, 2014 by calmoriah

[Calm]

So if a local leader excommunicates someone it has no effect?

John Dehlin and Kate Kelly will be so relieved.

If he does it against the rules without a court, just announces it on his own say so.

Just as it would be if he baptised someone without following what are considered the core necessities....or married if he had no permission from either law or church to do so but took it upon himself because others had done it in the past...though they had followed the rules. Pretty straightforward I suspect. Excommunication is more like group therapy than an exorcism. The BP would likely have held an exorcism if he had a chance he was likely so desperate to keep the Eye of Mordor off his people.

Edited June 22, 2014 by calmoriah

[cinepro]

If he does it against the rules without a court, just announces it on his own say so.

 

Were all the baptisms done in that branch during that period subsequently re-performed as well?

[Calm]

What exactly are the implications of a posthumous reinstatement to the Church?  After all, John D. Lee was reinstated too, so I'm mystified on what the standards are (and what it means).

There is a difference between the two. Helmuth's was ruled invalid, no restoration of blessings was needed. In effect, it had meant nothing spiritually. Otoh, Lee's excommunication was never ruled invalid, I believe he was given a proxy restoration of blessings be ause there were spiritual implications of what happened to him.

[Calm]

Were all the baptisms done in that branch during that period subsequently re-performed as well?

He didn't even abide by the rules he could have done, there was no court and the reason given for excommunication itself might have been invalid (we don't excommunicate based on political laws).

If the baptisms had been done properly, there would be no need to repeat.

Edited June 22, 2014 by calmoriah