Consider The Lilies

[MiserereNobis]

Actually I hope that the church will build more malls. Why not? The mall in downtown salt lake provides many jobs for people who may not have a job if that mall was not built. It helps many college students pay off their loans and provides a added income to retirees and provides people with full time or part time work. What more could be asked for than putting money into something that provides work for people to keep them out of poverty? And how is that a world project? 

 

I don't have a dog in the fight over the mall one way or another, but it seems odd to me to argue that building a mall is not a worldly project, since the whole point of a mall is buying and selling and money.

Edited May 16, 2014 by MiserereNobis

[thesometimesaint]

I don't have a dog in the fight over the mall one way or another, but it seems odd to me to argue that building a mall is not a worldly project, since the whole point of a mall is buying and selling and money.

 

It's a bit  more complicated. The Church has to live in this world, and surroundings do give an overall "feel" to an area. A rundown, unkempt, area is not only an eye-sore, it gets associated with crime, and apathy. Somethings the Church actively teaches against. Making more money is at best a secondary consideration.

[Alan]

Birds do starve:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/biologists-worried-by-migratory-birds-starvation-seen-as-tied-to-climate-change/2013/06/19/c04d8a74-d90d-11e2-a9f2-42ee3912ae0e_story.html

 

http://www.falklands.net/PenguinsStarve.shtml

 

http://sciencenordic.com/puffin-chicks-die-hunger

 

I could keep going on.  Just because you don't notice it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

 

As a practicing ecologist for 20 years or so, I have never once come across a staving bird.

And I'm pretty sure Jesus was talking about the birds the disciples could see and were familiar with. Not many penguins or puffins in the holy land!

[Calm]

Surely birds will starve in times of drought and famine or during wintertime (seen frozen birds) just as lilies will dry up and die if not watered, etc.

[Coreyb]

We don't need to work from a metaphor

[why me]

It's a bit  more complicated. The Church has to live in this world, and surroundings do give an overall "feel" to an area. A rundown, unkempt, area is not only an eye-sore, it gets associated with crime, and apathy. Somethings the Church actively teaches against. Making more money is at best a secondary consideration.

Trust me. If salt lake looked like downtown detroit, the critics would still be complaining of the church's apathy. Nothing would satisfy the critics. This mall has provided many people with jobs. If my daughter was working in the mall and the job was keeping her busy and helping her to pay her loan, why would I complain about the church investment in the mall?

[why me]

I don't have a dog in the fight over the mall one way or another, but it seems odd to me to argue that building a mall is not a worldly project, since the whole point of a mall is buying and selling and money.

It is also about providing jobs to people who wish to work. And what is wrong with that? Would it be better to build a homeless shelter? Would the businesses in the area appreciate it And if you had a business in the area, would you be thankful? It is a win-win for the people who work in the area and for the people who are working in the mall. 

[Alan]

Surely birds will starve in times of drought and famine or during wintertime (seen frozen birds) just as lilies will dry up and die if not watered, etc.

 

Frozen birds usually die of the cold.

[Calm]

Frozen birds usually die of the cold.

And how is that God ensuring they get their needs met?

[thesometimesaint]

Frozen birds usually die of the cold.

 

They die from all sorts of causes. Cold weather usually means lack of access to sufficient food to keep alive.

[Traela]

If a bird is starving, it gets weak. When it gets weak, it is caught and eaten by another animal. So technically, it didn't die of starvation.

We are told to store food to protect ourselves, and so that we have the resources to help others in need, especially in a crisis situation.

Perhaps Ecclessiastes is is the proper scripture here: there is a time to travel without purse or scrip, and there is a time to store food.

[Calm]

1 Tim 5:8

 8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

[Alan]

If a bird is starving, it gets weak. When it gets weak, it is caught and eaten by another animal. So technically, it didn't die of starvation.

We are told to store food to protect ourselves, and so that we have the resources to help others in need, especially in a crisis situation.

Perhaps Ecclessiastes is is the proper scripture here: there is a time to travel without purse or scrip, and there is a time to store food.

 

Personally, I believe Christ's direct instruction to us, repeated 3 times (New Testament, Book of Mormon, D&C) trumps Ecclessiastes.

[strappinglad]

I can do without the purse , but I gotta have some scrip. Without scrip I'm not going very far from home base. Wait, how far away from home did the Apostles travel? I'm sure Paul was given free passage on all the ships he used. Then again, if one is in the custody of Roman soldiers, one travels on their dime.

[thesometimesaint]

I can do without the purse , but I gotta have some scrip. Without scrip I'm not going very far from home base. Wait, how far away from home did the Apostles travel? I'm sure Paul was given free passage on all the ships he used. Then again, if one is in the custody of Roman soldiers, one travels on their dime.

 

Paul was a tent maker.

[strappinglad]

Paul was a tent maker.

Oh ya , I forgot. That would make him a valuable asset repairing sails on a ship.

[thesometimesaint]

Oh ya , I forgot. That would make him a valuable asset repairing sails on a ship.

 

There is differences enough that that is a qualified yes. Though it was useful in funding his missions and when left on the Isle of Patmos