strappinglad Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 We should give the Death Penalty to those that succeed at committing suicide. This was in British law. Apparently it was not uncommon. People are strange.
thesometimesaint Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 This was in British law. Apparently it was not uncommon. People are strange. Strangeness always has an international flavor.
daz2 Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 I believe that the Atonement of Jesus covers all sin, including premeditated murder and suicide. I also think that in most cases suicide is not premeditated sin but is caused by mental illness. Boyd K. Packer: "I repeat, save for the exception of the very few who defect to perdition, there is no habit, no addiction, no rebellion, no transgression, no apostasy, no crime exempted from the promise of complete forgiveness. That is the promise of the atonement of Christ." https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1995/10/the-brilliant-morning-of-forgiveness?lang=eng
rodheadlee Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 Ok I confess. I committed suicide once. When I died I was outside of my body looking down on it from above. My main thought was I really, really messed up this time. I thought I was in hell and would be there forever. Hell was being alone, All alone with no one to hear my words, my thoughts or to listen to for all eternity. Which was the condition that brought me there in the first place or so I had thought.
Duncan Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 Ok I confess. I committed suicide once. When I died I was outside of my body looking down on it from above. My main thought was I really, really messed up this time. I thought I was in hell and would be there forever. Hell was being alone, All alone with no one to hear my words, my thoughts or to listen to for all eternity. Which was the condition that brought me there in the first place or so I had thought. if you don't mind me asking what do you mean "or so I had thought?"
JLHPROF Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) Wow, I can't that is in the article cited in the Gospel topic on suicide, it is very harsh compared to the Handbook of Instructions. Don't confuse doctrine and administration. The doctrine on suicide is one thing. How the Church handles it is another. It makes a lot of sense that the Church asks us to treat such a sad subject with an abundance of sensititivity and forgiving.As for the doctrine, I didn't find it harsh. It simply acknowledges that the taking of life is a sin, even when it's our own, because life is a gift from God.Any practice that leads to death over life is a sin - whether it's cold blooded murder or the original sin of putting off eternal life in favor of one where we die. (Heck, that's even where the "no birth control" belief some favor came from).All that leads to death is sin (although sometimes a lesser one as in Nephi's and Mother Eve's case), all that leads to life eternal is of God. Edited April 20, 2014 by JLHPROF 2
The Nehor Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 There are two unassailable facts in this life. We all die, and God is the one whom judges.I contest the former. I am planning to be translated. 1
GingerRed Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 This is why I don't get the phrase...'God never gives you more than you can handle.' To me, that's not true. If that was so, then there wouldn't BE any suicide. God would know that a certain thing would push someone over the edge to where they will commit suicide, then why does that happen? If God knows they WILL kill themselves, then why drive that person to it? I have a hard time believing that phrase. 2
Calm Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 "..'God never gives you more than you can handle"My version is God won't hold you accountable for more than you are capable of handling, but one can also look at it as he won't give you the hardships that are too much to bear, but he may allow them to happen to you because of the fallen mortal state of the world which also includes allowing others to choose evil if that is the desire of their soul. Thus the things he personally requires of someone are doable, but the only way to find those out are through asking him directly because even the Church creates impossible lists of to dos (which they recognise and therefore teach everything to a season) such as raising children, helping the poor, doing missionary work, going to the temple, doing genealogy work, etc. There are not enough hours in the day to do them all, especially when one has children...and then adding in unique struggles such as health or care for disabled individuals, poverty, social ills such as oppressive governments, etc.
Duncan Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 "..'God never gives you more than you can handle"My version is God won't hold you accountable for more than you are capable of handling, but one can also look at it as he won't give you the hardships that are too much to bear, but he may allow them to happen to you because of the fallen mortal state of the world which also includes allowing others to choose evil if that is the desire of their soul.Thus the things he personally requires of someone are doable, but the only way to find those out are through asking him directly because even the Church creates impossible lists of to dos (which they recognise and therefore teach everything to a season) such as raising children, helping the poor, doing missionary work, going to the temple, doing genealogy work, etc. There are not enough hours in the day to do them all, especially when one has children...and then adding in unique struggles such as health or care for disabled individuals, poverty, social ills such as oppressive governments, etc. I get and agree with what you are saying but my dad was born in Germany and was 7 when the WW2 started and he has a negative impression of religion and can't says I blame him. I dunno, to him and others who grow up in these horrible situations and you can see why people turn to atheism or suicide or like my dad have negative views of God. That is why I asked awhile back people who live and die without hearing the Gospel who have these backgrounds and attitudes and even addictions, what happens to them in the next life. If the same spirit that possesses your body when leave this life is the same in the next how does the atonement work then and why would God place them in the situations knowing what their reactions would be
Kenngo1969 Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 ... Definitely think some major depression of some kind was involved with both women. Or chemical inbalance.Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
rodheadlee Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) My quote function isn't working but to answer your question Duncan I thought I was all alone with no one to talk to but in reality my family and friends loved me and I could have talked to any one of them about my situation. I didn't realize how much they loved me. It was over 40 years ago but I remember it well. Edited April 21, 2014 by rodheadlee 3
mnn727 Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) They are judged by a God that knows their heart and feelings perfectly.You don't punish someone who is ill for the results of that illness. Edited April 21, 2014 by mnn727 1
thesometimesaint Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 I contest the former. I am planning to be translated. Even the translated will die. The change from mortal to immortal will come in a twinkling of an eye.
The Nehor Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 Even the translated will die. The change from mortal to immortal will come in a twinkling of an eye. But they will never taste of death. So they do not actually die; they just transform.
thesometimesaint Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 But they will never taste of death. So they do not actually die; they just transform. Death is the separation of body and spirit. So they do die, but the change is so quick that the bitterness of that separation is less than the momentary loss of sight when we blink.
Ahab Posted April 22, 2014 Posted April 22, 2014 Death is the separation of body and spirit. So they do die, but the change is so quick that the bitterness of that separation is less than the momentary loss of sight when we blink.The change is that long for everybody at death. The change back, when the spirit reunites with the (then resurrected) body is what takes longer for some than for others.I think it's interesting that some spirits will reunite with their (then resurrected) body even faster than our Savior did.
thesometimesaint Posted April 22, 2014 Posted April 22, 2014 The change is that long for everybody at death.The change back, when the spirit reunites with the (then resurrected) body is what takes longer for some than for others.I think it's interesting that some spirits will reunite with their (then resurrected) body even faster than our Savior did. Agreed. I'd be happy with just 3 days.
JLHPROF Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 I think it's interesting that some spirits will reunite with their (then resurrected) body even faster than our Savior did. Agreed. I'd be happy with just 3 days. What makes you think 3 days isn't the "twinkling of an eye"? Who had more power over death than our Savior? Measuring time based on a scriptural statement has never been an exact science.
thesometimesaint Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 What makes you think 3 days isn't the "twinkling of an eye"? Who had more power over death than our Savior? Measuring time based on a scriptural statement has never been an exact science. At the time it was believed that our spirits stuck around after death. Christ waited longer than that time to disprove that belief. The Scriptures record it was three days. I blink pretty quickly but it is certainly is far less than three days. Now it may seem like a twinkling of the eye, having never experienced it myself. I'll be happy with anything less than 3 days.
JLHPROF Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) At the time it was believed that our spirits stuck around after death. Christ waited longer than that time to disprove that belief. The Scriptures record it was three days. I blink pretty quickly but it is certainly is far less than three days. Now it may seem like a twinkling of the eye, having never experienced it myself. I'll be happy with anything less than 3 days. Well if 1 day to God is 1000 years here, why couldn't a twinkle of his eye take about 3 days our time?And the half hour of silence would last about 22 years using the same scale. Edited April 23, 2014 by JLHPROF
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 You know this has been on my mind a bit. I think what happens to some extent is that they will be in hell. Most of the time our hell is brought upon us by our actions. Will they get redemption if they seek it? Yes I believe so. One of my friends killed himself in 2002. I think he regrets it and I think that is his hell and he will have to deal with his actions. I think this might be what is talked about in the scriptures when hell is talked about. But I cannot imagine that God would leave him there just as God will not leave us in hell here on this earth if we seek Him out. I hope that those that suffer with this illness do get the help and redemption they seek. It is my prayer that they do.
bcuzbcuz Posted April 23, 2014 Posted April 23, 2014 We should give the Death Penalty to those that succeed at committing suicide. I know a man in his forties who, when he was 20 years old, went as far as putting his rifle in his mouth with the intent of taking his own life. At the instant he pulled the trigger he backed away from the barrel. The blast took away his cheek bone and a good part of the right side of his face. He's had a series of facial surgeries....after he was released from prison..... after serving a two year sentence for attempted murder, of himself.
thesometimesaint Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 I know a man in his forties who, when he was 20 years old, went as far as putting his rifle in his mouth with the intent of taking his own life. At the instant he pulled the trigger he backed away from the barrel. The blast took away his cheek bone and a good part of the right side of his face. He's had a series of facial surgeries....after he was released from prison..... after serving a two year sentence for attempted murder, of himself. He obviously didn't succeed. Women attempt suicide at about 5 times more often than men. Men succeed about 5 times more often than women.
Duncan Posted April 24, 2014 Posted April 24, 2014 I know a man in his forties who, when he was 20 years old, went as far as putting his rifle in his mouth with the intent of taking his own life. At the instant he pulled the trigger he backed away from the barrel. The blast took away his cheek bone and a good part of the right side of his face. He's had a series of facial surgeries....after he was released from prison..... after serving a two year sentence for attempted murder, of himself. In Canada you can't be charged with attempting suicide, you'd probably get counselling or something, not sure. Mind you if you used an illegal weapon to do it then you might face a charge but who knows
Recommended Posts