Will We Be With Our Beloved Pets In Heaven?

[strappinglad]

Please do not use this 'thread' to 'rag' on cat people. Do not use your 'mouse' to 'play' with them. If you 'scratch' a cat person, do they not 'me-ow'? If you rub their back, do they not 'purr'?

I could go on but my dog got me up too early this am !

[Tacenda]

My lil' buddy!

 

ETA:  Trying to post a pic is hard!

Edited March 24, 2014 by Tacenda

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Throughout my life I've had 3 cats that have touched my heart and each lived to be old ages and I cried over them. Are we to assume that eternal families will include our beloved pets? I'm not talking about pet goldfish, I'm talking about like our family dogs and cats that are part of our families. I'm interested in your thoughts, but my conclusion is it would be cruel of Heavenly Father not to include them in heaven with us and Heavenly Father would never be cruel to us.

I hope so...mother died this morning . Much weeping today, I realize she I'd not a pet, but this is only way could get the message out. Edited March 24, 2014 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[strappinglad]

2 Timothy 4:7

Condolences Papa

[Walden]

If there is a heaven, well, it just wouldn't be heaven without pets

[Buzzard]

The gospel according to Buzzard-with no scriptural or modern revelation to back it up:

I am of the opinion that we will be able to resurrect those animals that we desire to have as companions with us in our kingdom of glory. Joseph Smith is reputed to have said he wanted his horse with him in the eternities. 

Of course, this means that the great majority of resurrected companions will be dogs, since they are manifestations of God's infinite love, while cats are just cold blooded killers in miniature. 

Edited March 24, 2014 by Buzzard

[thesometimesaint]

Pa Pa:

 

My deepest condolences to you and yours.

[Tacenda]

I hope so...mother died this morning . Much weeping today

Pa Pa, I'm so, so sorry!  As you know my mom suffered also with dementia/Alzheimer's.  At least I thought your mom did too.  This is going to sound extremely crass but I think you'll understand.  My mom got pneumonia early in the disease.  She was put in the hospital and put on some powerful meds.  Looking back, I wish we'd done things differently.  At the time she was barely put into a nursing home.  She didn't know us and was put in diapers.  I feel now that we should have let the pneumonia take her.  Only because of the horrific things she went through later and I witnessed it's after affects.  Please know that I mean well that it was a blessing for your sweet mom.  It stinks that I said that because so many say that to people where it really isn't their place, but with people that know this disease and the other horrible ones out there, you'll understand.  My dad use to wonder how we can put animals, dogs and cats, out of their misery, but not humans.  Bless you and your family Pa Pa.   

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Pa Pa, I'm so, so sorry!  As you know my mom suffered also with dementia/Alzheimer's.  At least I thought your mom did too.  This is going to sound extremely crass but I think you'll understand.  My mom got pneumonia early in the disease.  She was put in the hospital and put on some powerful meds.  Looking back, I wish we'd done things differently.  At the time she was barely put into a nursing home.  She didn't know us and was put in diapers.  I feel now that we should have let the pneumonia take her.  Only because of the horrific things she went through later and I witnessed it's after affects.  Please know that I mean well that it was a blessing for your sweet mom.  It stinks that I said that because so many say that to people where it really isn't their place, but with people that know this disease and the other horrible ones out there, you'll understand.  My dad use to wonder how we can put animals, dogs and cats, out of their misery, but not humans.  Bless you and your family Pa Pa.

I had just saw my mother going back into her room, two hours later she was gone. On thing that was hard, while doing CPR., I broke one of her ribs. The paramedics tried to make me feel better that is happens a lot doing CPR on the Elderly.

[Ahab]

Throughout my life I've had 3 cats that have touched my heart and each lived to be old ages and I cried over them. Are we to assume that eternal families will include our beloved pets? I'm not talking about pet goldfish, I'm talking about like our family dogs and cats that are part of our families. I'm interested in your thoughts, but my conclusion is it would be cruel of Heavenly Father not to include them in heaven with us and Heavenly Father would never be cruel to us.

I hope I'll get to have at least one of my dogs to help me to herd all of my sheep. And I'd also like to have at least a few chickens and a rooster so I can get some eggs and make some more chickens. And at least a few cows, with a bull, and at least a few horses. I wouldn't have much of a farm without them. Edited March 24, 2014 by Ahab

[Ahab]

I hope so...mother died this morning . Much weeping today, I realize she I'd not a pet, but this is only way could get the message out.

Sorry for your loss, but happy for her. She's looking forward to when she will be with you again. I hope you have more loved ones who you can be with now and that you still will enjoy this life while you are here.

[The Nehor]

If there is a heaven, well, it just wouldn't be heaven without pets

I am bringing my pet mosquitoes with me. They get out occasionally. I hope the neighbors won't mind.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Sorry for your loss, but happy for her. She's looking forward to when she will be with you again. I hope you have more loved ones who you can be with now and that you still will enjoy this life while you are here.

One here now, my sister...other than of course my own children. My brothers are in route as they live in Texas. They will arrive around 1:00 this morning.

[thesometimesaint]

I had just saw my mother going back into her room, two hours later she was gone. On thing that was hard, while doing CPR., I broke one of her ribs. The paramedics tried to make me feel better that is happens a lot doing CPR on the Elderly.

 

My son is a RN. He'll tell you the same. When my dad died he was dead before he hit the ground. My mom took about 3 days. Fortunately she had an advanced directive for no heroic measures. She died peacefully in her sleep at about 2 AM.

[MiserereNobis]

What about all of those incredibly intelligent pigs that you've eaten as bacon?  What are they going to say to you in heaven?

 

Here's the dirt on pigs: They are perhaps the smartest, cleanest domestic animals known - more so than cats and dogs, according to some experts. But pigs don't have sweat glands, so they roll around in the mud to stay cool. A sign of their cleverness came from experiments in the 1990s. Pigs were trained to move a cursor on a video screen with their snouts and used the cursor to distinguish between scribbles they knew and those they were seeing for the first time. They learned the task as quickly as chimpanzees.

 

Because monkeys had been shown to use mirrors to locate food, Donald M. Broom of the University of Cambridge and his colleagues decided to check for a similar sort of so-called assessment awareness in pigs. They began by exposing seven 4-to-8-week-old pigs to five-hour stints with a mirror and recording their reactions. The pigs were fascinated, pointing their snouts toward the mirror, hesitating, vocalizing, edging closer, walking up and nuzzling the surface, looking at their image from different angles, looking behind the mirror. When the mirror was placed in their pen a day later, the glass-savvy pigs greeted it with a big ho-hum.

 

Next, the researchers put the mirror in the enclosure, along with a bowl of food that could not be directly seen but whose image was reflected in the mirror. They then compared the responses of the mirror-experienced pigs with a group of mirror-naïve pigs. On spotting the virtual food in the mirror, the experienced pigs turned away and within an average of 23 seconds had found the food. But the naïve pigs took the reflection for reality and sought in vain to find the bowl by rooting around behind the mirror.

 

(I say this jokingly, but it is the same point 3DOP is trying to make above -- why pets and not other animals?)

[Ahab]

What about all of those incredibly intelligent pigs that you've eaten as bacon? What are they going to say to you in heaven?

(I say this jokingly, but it is the same point 3DOP is trying to make above -- why pets and not other animals?)

They're going to be saying "thank you" to us for our part in sending them there.

[saemo]

What about all of those incredibly intelligent pigs that you've eaten as bacon? What are they going to say to you in heaven?

(I say this jokingly, but it is the same point 3DOP is trying to make above -- why pets and not other animals?)

Well, even if you view the Biblical story of Noah and the flood as figurative, you can't help but notice God wanted to save the animals along with the humans.

Don't have a care for tomorrow....like the birds that God cares for?

"Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, everything in the universe, cry out: "To the one who sits on the throne and to the lamb be blessing and honor, glory and might, forever and ever " (Rev. 5:11-14)

Etc.

St. Francis took it to heart.

Me, I have in mind that creation as it is flawed, because of the fall, not because of how God created us. The lamb and the lion will lie down together...perhaps too, the mosquito will no longer poke and drink our blood or spread disease.

Isaiah 11

6 The wolf will live with the lamb,

the leopard will lie down with the goat,

the calf and the lion and the yearling together;

and a little child will lead them.

7 The cow will feed with the bear,

their young will lie down together,

and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

8 The infant will play near the cobra’s den,

and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.

9 They will neither harm nor destroy

on all my holy mountain,

for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord

as the waters cover the sea.

Edited March 25, 2014 by saemo

[3DOP]

Hi saemo,

 

I think we can and should love God's creatures and be good to them as reflections of their Creator. But if all of the non-human animals are being resurrected, it seems like maybe we shouldn't take the liberty to eat their bodies when it pleases us. If only some of the non-human animals are resurrected, presumably pets, where do their souls (immortal?) go while awaiting the resurrection of the body? I believe in the Limbos of the Fathers and of the Children. Would we also need a Limbo of the Pets? I am not against the idea. It just seems insupportable. Are you familiar with the arguments for the immortality of the human soul offered by most Catholic thinkers including Aquinas? It excludes all non-human animals. The following comments are from the Summa, Part 1, Q.75

 

"We must conclude, therefore, that the human soul, which is called the intellect or the mind, is something incorporeal and subsistent."

 

"We must assert that the intellectual principle which we call the human soul is incorruptible."

 

The arguments for immortality of the soul are always based on what Aquinas calls "the intellectual principle". It is that in us which would exist if and when the body is corrupted. With regards to brute beasts, (lacking the intellectual principle), it is possible that they will be present in eternity, but it wouldn't seem possible for it be through any resurrection of the body which would unite to an immortal soul. It would not be resurrected animals but recently born animals. God gives some animals amazing abilities through instinct and imitation, but except for humans, all other animals seem to lack the rational principle by which we reflect upon ourselves, and by which we can be confident that we could not be annihilated except by God.

 

Article 3 answers the question "Whether the souls of brute animals are subsistent?" http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1075.htm#article3

Edited March 25, 2014 by 3DOP

[MiserereNobis]

I wish I could give 3 rep points everytime the Summa is quoted

[Ahab]

Hi saemo,

I think we can and should love God's creatures and be good to them as reflections of their Creator. But if all of the non-human animals are being resurrected, it seems like maybe we shouldn't take the liberty to eat their bodies when it pleases us. If only some of the non-human animals are resurrected, presumably pets, where do their souls (immortal?) go while awaiting the resurrection of the body? I believe in the Limbos of the Fathers and of the Children. Would we also need a Limbo of the Pets? I am not against the idea. It just seems insupportable. Are you familiar with the arguments for the immortality of the human soul offered by most Catholic thinkers including Aquinas? It excludes all non-human animals. The following comments are from the Summa, Part 1, Q.75

"We must conclude, therefore, that the human soul, which is called the intellect or the mind, is something incorporeal and subsistent."

"We must assert that the intellectual principle which we call the human soul is incorruptible."

The arguments for immortality of the soul are always based on what Aquinas calls "the intellectual principle". It is that in us which would exist if and when the body is corrupted. With regards to brute beasts, (lacking the intellectual principle), it is possible that they will be present in eternity, but it wouldn't seem possible for it be through any resurrection of the body which would unite to an immortal soul. It would not be resurrected animals but recently born animals. God gives some animals amazing abilities through instinct and imitation, but except for humans, all other animals seem to lack the rational principle by which we reflect upon ourselves, and by which we can be confident that we could not be annihilated except by God.

Article 3 answers the question "Whether the souls of brute animals are subsistent?" http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1075.htm#article3

With an understanding of our theology you would understand that all things that live have a spirit within them which gives life to their bodies and wben that spirit and body separates, like ours does at death, the spirit goes to a place we call the spirit world, which is a world where spirits await their resurrection. The fact that we eat the bodies of animals doesn't change that, just as it doesn't change for us if an animal eats our bodies. And if you could see the world of spirits you would see that it looks the same as ours does, with trees and other plants and animals too. And it is in the same place as ours is, here, on this world, just in another dimension.

[Calm]

They're going to be saying "thank you" to us for our part in sending them there.

For you, Ahab:

 

[3DOP]

With an understanding of our theology you would understand that all things that live have a spirit within them which gives life to their bodies and wben that spirit and body separates, like ours does at death, the spirit goes to a place we call the spirit world, which is a world where spirits await their resurrection. The fact that we eat the bodies of animals doesn't change that, just as it doesn't change for us if an animal eats our bodies. And if you could see the world of spirits you would see that it looks the same as ours does, with trees and other plants and animals too. And it is in the same place as ours is, here, on this world, just in another dimension.

 

But Ahab,

 

saemo is Catholic. I should perhaps have left the disclaimer that I ended up editing which clarified that the ideas enunciated, would have an application that would be limited to Catholics.

 

So according to Mormonism, every living organism, "all things that live" are resurrected? Not just pets? Every crawdad, every salamander, every bear, and even...vegetables? That just doesn't seem appropriate to me. Even if I were LDS, I think I would be skeptical about non-human animals and vegetables that weren't pets or at least nurtured (onions, cucumbers, and other garden style vegetables) by humans. Is the whole vine, or just the grape resurrected? It seems like with a little pondering, it would be a big confusing mess. But anyway, thanks for the insight. I hate to be perceived as being a "human supremacist" if all animals and vegetables have the same privileges, but there it is.

 

3DOP

[3DOP]

I wish I could give 3 rep points everytime the Summa is quoted

 

Heh Miserere. Me too. I would be the sole beneficiary around these parts!

[Ahab]

But Ahab,

saemo is Catholic. I should perhaps have left the disclaimer that I ended up editing which clarified that the ideas enunciated, would have an application that would be limited to Catholics.

So according to Mormonism, every living organism, "all things that live" are resurrected? Not just pets? Every crawdad, every salamander, every bear, and even...vegetables? That just doesn't seem appropriate to me. Even if I were LDS, I think I would be skeptical about non-human animals and vegetables that weren't pets or at least nurtured (onions, cucumbers, and other garden style vegetables) by humans. Is the whole vine, or just the grape resurrected? It seems like with a little pondering, it would be a big confusing mess. But anyway, thanks for the insight. I hate to be perceived as being a "human supremacist" if all animals and vegetables have the same privileges, but there it is.

3DOP

I suggest pondering some more about what the life in a living being is, which we LDS refer to as the spirit or breath of life, while also pondering some more about where each spirit goes at the point of separation of the spirit from the mortal body. It doesn't just vanish from all existence, as if that living entity is annihilated. Life never dies. Life is eternal. So each life in each living being will always live somewhere. Do you think each living being, even a bug's life, is God?

[MiserereNobis]

Heh Miserere. Me too. I would be the sole beneficiary around these parts!

 

Well, I had to give it to mfbukowski for his post here