Religion And "pornography Addiction", Reality And Perception Study.

[Duncan]

Does anyone deny the fact that if you believe in your head that there is such thing as sins, then when you commit one of these sins, you will feel guilty. And when you feel guilty, a dopamine release will temporarily make you feel better about your guilt?

 

 

I have wondered is something a sin only because someone else say it is or is something sinful because it's bad regardless or what anyone else tells you. For example if nobody told me that drinking alcohol is bad would I do it or not do it and do I need someone to tell me that drinking alcohol is not a good idea?

[bluebell]

The whole point of the article was, in current DN style, to string together a bunch of news items. Since they've dismissed most of their reporters, this is how they report the news these days. If they're making an argument, it makes sense to put such things in the Op-Ed section and not call it news.

 

The DN definitely seems to have its own way of doing things.  

[bluebell]

I don't think it's a sin. And I'm not justifying anything, because porn is no longer a part of my life.

 

 

 

I can understand how someone, who doesn't think God condemns porn and all it stands for (and what it does to everyone involved), wouldn't think anyone should feel guilty for contributing to the porn industry a little bit.  

 

I can also understand how someone, who doesn't think porn ever hurts anyone involved, wouldn't think anyone should feel guilty for being a part of the porn industry a little bit.

[Kevin Christensen]

You've well described the nature of the problem, and the Church's approach to it.  Is it your belief that this approach is meeting the challenge?

The Addiction Recovery Program, and the quality of information on the LDS websites are vast improvement over previous approaches to the problem, that is, pelting undesirable behavior with large and heavy "Don't!"s accompanied by large doses of shame.

Meaning, decades from now, will Church members look back on the early 2000s as "that crazy time when pornography was a huge problem", or as "the time when the Church's huge problems with pornography just started getting going"?

I'm not a prophet. I'm just trying to help in the here and now.

If it's the former, then I am wrong and the Church should double-down on its current strategies.  If it's the latter, then what options does the Church have to improve the situation?  Will anything work?

I rather think that running out to embrace prodigals, and fully restoring them to the family, and mourning with those that mourn, helping to bear one another's burdens that they be light, comforting those who stand in need of comfort, as well as "seeking out of the best books words of wisdom" will, in the long run, be far more helpful to the LDS community than cynical detachment.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

[jkwilliams]

I'll probably regret posting this here, but here are my thoughts about this issue:

 

Pornography as Addiction and the LDS 12-Step Program

 

In my experience, lumping together occasional porn use, masturbation, or "lustful thoughts" with real addictions and compulsive behavior doesn't really help anyone. Judging from what I saw, the 12-step program created a lot of unwarranted shame and self-loathing in young men who were just behaving like normal, fallible humans.

[cinepro]

I can understand how someone, who doesn't think God condemns porn and all it stands for (and what it does to everyone involved), wouldn't think anyone should feel guilty for contributing to the porn industry a little bit.  

 

I can also understand how someone, who doesn't think porn ever hurts anyone involved, wouldn't think anyone should feel guilty for being a part of the porn industry a little bit.

 

I don't mean to be crass, but let's be realistic.  Any being of "spirit" that can see the actions of humans on the planet is literally seeing billions of naked people bathing, dressing, undressing, having sex etc. every second of the day. 

 

LDS teachings about modesty and pornography may be extremely reflective of God's views on the subject, but I would be very curious to know how much of those views are also shaped by the very human (and usually very conservative) views of the men who lead the Church.

 

I'm not saying that makes these things okay, but it does make me think God probably doesn't care quite as much if a 17 year old boy spends a little more time than he should watching an internet video of Kate Upton doing jumping jacks.

Edited February 19, 2014 by cinepro

[mormonnewb]

I'm not saying that makes these things okay, but it does make me think God probably doesn't care quite as much if a 17 year old boy spends a little more time than he should watching an internet video of Kate Upton doing jumping jacks.

Ok, you got me!

[Bernard Gui]

  

You really think I was equating adultery, abuse and leaving the toilet seat up?

For future reference, whenever someone lists three items and the third seems entirely out of place, then it's very likely that they are joking. In fact, this kind of joke is so common that it has its own name -- the Rule of Three or the Triple.

http://www.humorpower.com/art-rulethree.html

Ha ha ha. (Rule of Three.) Sitting with grieving sisters twice a week and listening their feelings of betrayal have totally removed any humor that might be associated with pornography and addiction, as far as I am concerned. There is nothing funny about it.

[Bernard Gui]

I thought it was funny.

I didn't. This is not a funny topic. It is deadly serious and deserves to be treated as such.

[Bernard Gui]

Sometimes there is no choice.  If you are in a bleak, featureless, dark emptiness where all that you loved is gone and those who loved you now hate you. You hate the Creator, or yield to the will of the one who made you to the abandonment of all else.

The only thing we can yield is our will. 

[Bernard Gui]

I have wondered is something a sin only because someone else say it is or is something sinful because it's bad regardless or what anyone else tells you. For example if nobody told me that drinking alcohol is bad would I do it or not do it and do I need someone to tell me that drinking alcohol is not a good idea?

Sin is that which opposes the will of God. One could ask if it is God's will that we drink alcohol or view pornography. Probably not, in my opinion.

[Bernard Gui]

Does anyone in this discussion have experience in treating or dealing with people that have sexual/pornography addictions?

Edited February 20, 2014 by Bernard Gui

[EllenMaksoud]

The only thing we can yield is our will. 

Yes, our will. And I give it freely to Heavenly Father. Tonight I got confirmation that I have an extra gene. This explains so much, thought I doubt that the family will listen. I have peace.

[Bernard Gui]

I don't mean to be crass, but let's be realistic.  Any being of "spirit" that can see the actions of humans on the planet is literally seeing billions of naked people bathing, dressing, undressing, having sex etc. every second of the day. 

 

LDS teachings about modesty and pornography may be extremely reflective of God's views on the subject, but I would be very curious to know how much of those views are also shaped by the very human (and usually very conservative) views of the men who lead the Church.

 

I'm not saying that makes these things okay, but it does make me think God probably doesn't care quite as much if a 17 year old boy spends a little more time than he should watching an internet video of Kate Upton doing jumping jacks.

CFR that any being of "spirit" can see billions of naked bodies doing what they do.

 

God's views are plainly described in Jacob 2. 

 

​Doesn't saying God doesn't care much mean the same thing as saying they're ok?

Edited February 20, 2014 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

Yes, our will. And I give it freely to Heavenly Father. Tonight I got confirmation that I have an extra gene. This explains so much, thought I doubt that the family will listen. I have peace.

Finding reasons for things that have been long unexplained can bring peace! God bless!

[EllenMaksoud]

Finding reasons for things that have been long unexplained can bring peace! God bless!

Yes! Thank you. I am so excited. I wish there were more peopple up to share this with. :)000000000000000000000000000000000000

[Bernard Gui]

Does anyone deny the fact that if you believe in your head that there is such thing as sins, then when you commit one of these sins, you will feel guilty. And when you feel guilty, a dopamine release will temporarily make you feel better about your guilt?

Kind of a weird question, but yeah....I'll deny that. Guilt brings remorse, and when it is the right kind of remorse, it leads

to repentance, forgiveness, and restoration. Guilt just for the sake of guilt....not so much.

[Tacenda]

Yes, our will. And I give it freely to Heavenly Father. Tonight I got confirmation that I have an extra gene. This explains so much, thought I doubt that the family will listen. I have peace.

They will, give them time. They just need more knowledge on the subject and for the shock to wear off. I'm so glad you shared with us awhile back, it makes it so easy to see where you're coming from now. Your family are just more connected and have known you a different way, as you already know of course, not telling you anything new. So glad you have this new evidence to support your case, not that anyone should have to have that to go by what they feel is right for them, but glad it gives you peace.

[EllenMaksoud]

They will, give them time. They just need more knowledge on the subject and for the shock to wear off. I'm so glad you shared with us awhile back, it makes it so easy to see where you're coming from now. Your family are just more connected and have known you a different way, as you already know of course, not telling you anything new. So glad you have this new evidence to support your case, not that anyone should have to have that to go by what they feel is right for them, but glad it gives you peace.

I almost crashed in the Bishops office with the pres there. My Stepfather tried to killl me over this, and said he would if I did not do what he wanted and it has been a life ime and I just don't know that to do now. I want to laugh and cry at the same time and dance in the street.

[EllenMaksoud]

Kind of a weird question, but yeah....I'll deny that. Guilt brings remorse, and when it is the right kind of remorse, it leads

to repentance, forgiveness, and restoration. Guilt just for the sake of guilt....not so much.

This may be premature, but it is my fervent prayer that we will find genetic causation for gays and lesbians. Then we will have to figure out how to address that.

[POP]

I have been involved in treating people who have problems with pornography viewing and accompanying masturbation. There are a few studies that dispute the consequences of pornography addiction and ascribe them to religion. The vast majority of the studies (scientific, survey-based and observation-based) affirm real and negative consequences for pornography viewing. Some lives and families are being destroyed but all are being negatively impacted (You can see a list of consequences and the sources at www.poweroverpornography.com/consequences).

 

My experience in trying to help those who want to overcome porn affirms the latter: porn-viewing's consequences to the viewer and his or her closest relationships are significant, negative and very real. They become most clear to the viewer who has abstained from viewing for at least six months. The positive results from abstinence clarify and magnify the negative consequences of viewing.

 

For those confused at the various studies and assertions, the best way to test them is to stop viewing pornography for six months and then compare one's personal situation before and after. I think they can then tell for themselves what the real consequences are and if it's made up by religion or real.

 

The problem is how to overcome viewing. Whether you call it addiction or not, it can be very difficult to stop for an extended period. 12-step programs, including the Addiction Recovery Program, can be of great help but tend to have a high relapse rate. Cognitive behavior-based programs, such as Power Over Pornography, are working for many and seem to have a lower relapse rate. The important point is getting help to stop. Regardless of the rationalizations and justifications, porn viewing can be harmful and one can know best if they try living without it.

[bluebell]

I'm not saying that makes these things okay, but it does make me think God probably doesn't care quite as much if a 17 year old boy spends a little more time than he should watching an internet video of Kate Upton doing jumping jacks.

Given what the scriptures say, what evidence do you have to support the idea that God doesn't really care when we lust after other people a little bit?

I'm thinking specifically of where the scriptures teach that anyone who lusts after another is guilty of sin.

And that God can look at no sin with any degree of allowance.

If we are going to put these things forward as things that the church should be teaching about God, then let's make sure we can support them.

[jkwilliams]

Given what the scriptures say, what evidence do you have to support the idea that God doesn't really care when we lust after other people a little bit?

I'm thinking specifically of where the scriptures teach that anyone who lusts after another is guilty of sin.

And that God can look at no sin with any degree of allowance.

If we are going to put these things forward as things that the church should be teaching about God, then let's make sure we can support them.

 

Sexual arousal is part of life. The answer is not to banish all sexual thoughts and desires from ourselves, as that would be extremely unhealthy, not to mention impossible. In obsessing over not thinking about sex, we make ourselves think about sex even more.

 

The key for me is to keep everything in perspective. I recognize that, if I see a beautiful woman, I might get aroused. Forcing myself to avert my gaze from every attractive women would be silly, to the point that I would probably start feeling "tempted" to look and feel guilty if I did look. It's preferable just to say, there goes an attractive woman instead of beating myself up over getting slightly aroused.

 

Lust, to me, is about taking that natural arousal and running with it. Unfortunately, too many people seem to think that all sexual feelings are lustful and must be banished. Makes for some very screwed-up attitudes about sex.

[bluebell]

Sexual arousal is part of life. The answer is not to banish all sexual thoughts and desires from ourselves, as that would be extremely unhealthy, not to mention impossible. In obsessing over not thinking about sex, we make ourselves think about sex even more.

 

The key for me is to keep everything in perspective. I recognize that, if I see a beautiful woman, I might get aroused. Forcing myself to avert my gaze from every attractive women would be silly, to the point that I would probably start feeling "tempted" to look and feel guilty if I did look. It's preferable just to say, there goes an attractive woman instead of beating myself up over getting slightly aroused.

 

Lust, to me, is about taking that natural arousal and running with it. Unfortunately, too many people seem to think that all sexual feelings are lustful and must be banished. Makes for some very screwed-up attitudes about sex.

 

Do whatever you want and justify it however you want.  That's between you and God.

 

But don't tell me it's what God wants everyone to do, or what His church should be teaching, unless you can back that up somehow.    

[jkwilliams]

Do whatever you want and justify it however you want.  That's between you and God.

 

But don't tell me it's what God wants everyone to do, or what His church should be teaching, unless you can back that up somehow.  

 

I have no opinion on what God wants everyone to do, and I don't care what the church teaches, so long as I can protect my kids from the more destructive teachings. I think it's crazy and very unhealthy to try and banish all sexual thoughts from your life, so if the church were to teach that, I would make sure my kids knew I think that's a terrible approach. But I'm not suggesting my approach is the best for everyone. So, go ahead and tell me I'm justifying my actions. It doesn't matter.