Religion And "pornography Addiction", Reality And Perception Study.

[drums12]

Just get Colleen Harrison's He Did Deliever Me From Bondage. It just had a new edition come out.

 

12 Steps in the Book of Mormon

1. We admitted that we were powerless over our addiction, that our lives had become unmanageable.

 Even so, I would that ye should remember, and always retain in remembrance…your own nothingness…and humble yourselves in the depths of humility. (Mosiah 4:11)

2. Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

 And this is the means by which salvation cometh. And there is none other salvation save this… Believe in God; believe that he is, and that he created all things…believe that he has all wisdom and all power…believe that man doth not comprehend all the things the Lord can comprehend. (Mosiah 4:8-9)

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him.

 But if ye will turn to the Lord with full purpose of heart, and put your trust in him,… he will, according to his own will and pleasure, deliver you out of bondage. (Mos. 7:33)

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

 Yeah, and I did remember all my sins and iniquities…yeah, I saw that I had rebelled against my God (Alma 36:13)

 I am encompassed about because the of the temptations and sins which do easily beset me. And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins. (2 Nephi 4:18-19)

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being, the exact nature of our wrongs.

 And whosoever transgresseth against me, him shall ye judge according to the sins which he hath committed; and if he confess his sins before thee and me, and repenteth in the sincerity of his heart, him he shall forgive, and I will forgive him also. (Mosiah 26:29)

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

 “Oh God, Aaron hath told me that there is a God;…wilt thou make thyself known unto me, and I will give away all my sins to know thee…” (Alma 22:18)

7. Humbly asked God to remove our shortcomings.

 Oh Lord wilt thou redeem my soul?... Wilt thou make me that I shake at the appearance of sin? (2 Nephi 4:31)

 I give unto men weakness that they may humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves… and have faith in me…I will make weak things become strong unto them. (Ether 12:27)

8. Made a list of all the persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

 “And they traveled throughout all the land of Zarahemla… zealously striving to repair all the injury they had done to the church, confessing all their sins…” (Mosiah 27:35)

9. Made direct amends to such people whenever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

 “return unto them and acknowledge your faults and the wrong which ye have done.” (Alma 39:13)

10. Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.

 And now, my beloved brethren, seeing that our merciful God has given us so great knowledge concerning these things, let us remember him, and lay aside our sins, and not hang down our heads, for we are not cast off. (2 Nephi 10:20)

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood 

 But this was not all; they had given themselves to much prayer, and fasting; therefore they had the spirit of prophecy, and the spirit of revelation and when they taught, they taught with power and authority of God. (Alma 17:3)

12.  Having had a spiritual awakening because of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

 And we have suffered all manner of afflictions, and all this, that perhaps we might be the means of saving some soul, and we supposed that our joy would be full if perhaps we could be the means of saving some. (Alma 26:30)

 

Best,

 

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

Colleen's husband, Phil Harrison, has written a 12 step book patterned after "He Did Deliver Me From Bondage" entitled "Clean Hands Pure Heart."  I have both books, and would recommend CHPH over HDDM for someone dealing specifically with the shame and difficulty of a sexual addiction.  Incidentally, I emailed Phil at the end of 2012 asking if he knew of anyone in my area who might be willing to sponsor me.  He surprised me by saying "I will sponsor you."  We've emailed on and off for the last 14 months, and talked on the telephone when I shared my 4th step inventory with him.  I highly recommend his book. 

[frank_jessop]

Of course. Jacob 2 and D&C 63:16 clearly define God's boundaries for sexual thought and  behavior. I hope we hold to these standards

and strive to observe them. No one is perfect and everyone struggles, but the standards are high and we are in for the fight.

 

Thanks for thoughts, I was getting the wrong impression; that being that you took issue with premise of the article.

[Mystery Meat]

Thanks for thoughts, I was getting the wrong impression; that being that you took issue with premise of the article.

 

Just because one thinks religion has an influence on how one views porn, doesn't mean they don't take issue with the premise of the article. 

[frank_jessop]

Just because one thinks religion has an influence on how one views porn, doesn't mean they don't take issue with the premise of the article. 

 

Do you disagree with the article? And by article I mean the article linked in the first post, not the abstract quoted in the first post.  For the following, imo, is the premise of the article and, I would add is supportive of religious belief:

 

“The respondents acknowledged viewing online pornography at least once in the past six months,” Grubbs said. “But the findings revealed no connection between hours viewed and how religious a person was.” ...

The information may help therapists understand that the perception of addiction is more about religious beliefs than actual viewing, researchers concluded.

“We can help the individual understand what is driving this perception,” Grubbs said, “and help individuals better enjoy their faith.”

 

So what is "addiction" to viewing pornographic material? That is an important question and important to overcoming the desire to intentionally view pornographic material.

 

It also appears to me that there is a specific model or method for applying the label "addiction" to something. Should a non-licensed untrained individual tell another person "you have an addiction", even if all the current information does not define the persons action as addiction?

 

Should LDS who wish to uphold the standards and teachings of the Church intentionally view things that most would consider pornographic? I do not think they should.

 

Should a LDS person, who realizes their own desires, view material he/she considers pornographic, but that most others including LDS would not consider pornographic? I do not think that person should.

[Tacenda]

Collen Harrison spoke at a RS meeting once, she shared some life experiences of her own, that told me she knows what she's talking about.

When Collen came to my church, I don't remember anything about steps to help with porn addiction. What stands out is ways to quit any kind of addiction. And it may have been food addiction that she may have had trouble with, I know that she had a rough patch in her life at one time and that may have made her turn to food. Could porn addiction also sooth, just like food does? Maybe there are those that are more inclined for these types of addictions.

[frank_jessop]

Hmmm...this thread is growing a little stale. Does anyone have any comments on this gem of an idea from the LDS Culture?

Discussing Pornography with Your Future Son-in-Law

This was an article in 2011 on the Meridian Magazine website wherein an LDS family therapist suggests that potential husbands of LDS women should be "interviewed" by their future father-in-laws, and that they should be asked about their "experience" with pornography.

I don't know if this ever caught on, but it certainly is a direct approach.  I especially like how "not wanting to talk to your future FIL about your experience with pornography" is a "Red flag"

I take the author would support a future Father in law or mother in law, asking the same questions of future Daughter in law.

[Mystery Meat]

Do you disagree with the article? And by article I mean the article linked in the first post, not the abstract quoted in the first post.  For the following, imo, is the premise of the article and, I would add is supportive of religious belief:

 

“The respondents acknowledged viewing online pornography at least once in the past six months,” Grubbs said. “But the findings revealed no connection between hours viewed and how religious a person was.” ...

The information may help therapists understand that the perception of addiction is more about religious beliefs than actual viewing, researchers concluded.

“We can help the individual understand what is driving this perception,” Grubbs said, “and help individuals better enjoy their faith.”

 

So what is "addiction" to viewing pornographic material? That is an important question and important to overcoming the desire to intentionally view pornographic material.

 

It also appears to me that there is a specific model or method for applying the label "addiction" to something. Should a non-licensed untrained individual tell another person "you have an addiction", even if all the current information does not define the persons action as addiction?

 

Should LDS who wish to uphold the standards and teachings of the Church intentionally view things that most would consider pornographic? I do not think they should.

 

Should a LDS person, who realizes their own desires, view material he/she considers pornographic, but that most others including LDS would not consider pornographic? I do not think that person should.

 

The article heavily implies that there is no such thing as porn addiction, but those of us who have gone through porn addiction are only addicted because our religious faith tells us so. I utterly, and totally reject that premise.

[Bernard Gui]

Hmmm...this thread is growing a little stale. Does anyone have any comments on this gem of an idea from the LDS Culture?

 

Discussing Pornography with Your Future Son-in-Law

 

This was an article in 2011 on the Meridian Magazine website wherein an LDS family therapist suggests that potential husbands of LDS women should be "interviewed" by their future father-in-laws, and that they should be asked about their "experience" with pornography.

 

 

 

 

I don't know if this ever caught on, but it certainly is a direct approach.  I especially like how "not wanting to talk to your future FIL about your experience with pornography" is a "Red flag"

You have 2 long-standing CFRs.

[Bernard Gui]

Hmmm...this thread is growing a little stale. Does anyone have any comments on this gem of an idea from the LDS Culture?

 

Discussing Pornography with Your Future Son-in-Law

 

This was an article in 2011 on the Meridian Magazine website wherein an LDS family therapist suggests that potential husbands of LDS women should be "interviewed" by their future father-in-laws, and that they should be asked about their "experience" with pornography.

 

 

 

 

I don't know if this ever caught on, but it certainly is a direct approach.  I especially like how "not wanting to talk to your future FIL about your experience with pornography" is a "Red flag"

I know sisters who wish to God their fathers had had that conversation.

[Calm]

I know sisters who wish to God their fathers had had that conversation.

I hav no problem with a child to ask a parent to fill that role, I just think it is better coming fron the future spouse him or herself.

[Bernard Gui]

I hav no problem with a child to ask a parent to fill that role, I just think it is better coming fron the future spouse him or herself.

Should the victim have been more diligent then?

[Bernard Gui]

Cinepro....you have 2 long-standing CFRs. This is your topic....please answer.

 

Your evidence that beings of "spirit" view naked humanity in all activities and aspects....

Your evidence that God tolerates just a little use of pornography (17 year olds looking

at some babe doing jumping jacks)

Edited February 24, 2014 by Bernard Gui

[SeekingUnderstanding]

I don't mean to be crass, but let's be realistic.  Any being of "spirit" that can see the actions of humans on the planet is literally seeing billions of naked people bathing, dressing, undressing, having sex etc. every second of the day. 

 

LDS teachings about modesty and pornography may be extremely reflective of God's views on the subject, but I would be very curious to know how much of those views are also shaped by the very human (and usually very conservative) views of the men who lead the Church.

 

I'm not saying that makes these things okay, but it does make me think God probably doesn't care quite as much if a 17 year old boy spends a little more time than he should watching an internet video of Kate Upton doing jumping jacks.

CFR that any being of "spirit" can see billions of naked bodies doing what they do.

Okay, I'll tackle this one. Cinepro does not state that any being of spirit can see "billions of naked bodies ...." Rather he states that any being (of "spirit") that has the capacity to see all of the actions of humans on the planet (assume he is talking about your God of choice here) sees "billions of naked bodies..." Is this something that you dispute? You don't think that God can see us when we are naked?

ETA a scriptural reference:

Thus saith the Lord your God, even Jesus Christ, the Great I Am, Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the same which looked upon the wide expanse of eternity, and all the seraphic hosts of heaven, before the world was made;

The same which knoweth all things, for all things are present before mine eyes;

Edited February 24, 2014 by SeekingUnderstanding

[SeekingUnderstanding]

Your evidence that God tolerates just a little use of pornography (17 year olds looking

at some babe doing jumping jacks)

You are issuing a CFR for this statement? "I'm not saying that makes these things okay, but it does make me think God probably doesn't care quite as much if a 17 year old boy spends a little more time than he should watching an internet video of Kate Upton doing jumping jacks."

You want Cinepro to prove he really thinks this?

[Tacenda]

I recently read that the problem is huge in Mormonism, something like 70% males in the church say they have a problem with porn.  That sounds extremely high.  Can anyone verify whether this is correct or not?  Is there a figure?  If this is the case, the church needs to change something they're are doing.  Maybe it does create a problem, the guilt laid on thick scenario.     

[bluebell]

I recently read that the problem is huge in Mormonism, something like 70% males in the church say they have a problem with porn.  That sounds extremely high.  Can anyone verify whether this is correct or not?  Is there a figure?  If this is the case, the church needs to change something they're are doing.  Maybe it does create a problem, the guilt laid on thick scenario.     

 

Where did you read it?

[Mystery Meat]

I recently read that the problem is huge in Mormonism, something like 70% males in the church say they have a problem with porn.  That sounds extremely high.  Can anyone verify whether this is correct or not?  Is there a figure?  If this is the case, the church needs to change something they're are doing.  Maybe it does create a problem, the guilt laid on thick scenario.     

 

That number doesn't seem to far off to me, especially if it is talking about YSA men.

[Bikeemikey]

That number doesn't seem to far off to me, especially if it is talking about YSA men.

 

I realize i'm already in my 30's but i managed to get out of young mens and YSA with out looking at porn.

 

Perhaps this is more of an issue for the younger generation coming up through the programs now.

 

Certainly seems he internet has made access both free and easy.

[Mystery Meat]

I realize i'm already in my 30's but i managed to get out of young mens and YSA with out looking at porn.

 

Perhaps this is more of an issue for the younger generation coming up through the programs now.

 

Certainly seems he internet has made access both free and easy.

 

You are lucky. I was in a student ward at BYU about 5 years ago and served as the executive secretary. The bishop, wrongfully mind you, told me that there wasn't man in the ward who hadn't talked with him about porn. At first I thought he was just trying to make a point. Sadly, he wasn't.

[Bikeemikey]

You are lucky. I was in a student ward at BYU about 5 years ago and served as the executive secretary. The bishop, wrongfully mind you, told me that there wasn't man in the ward who hadn't talked with him about porn. At first I thought he was just trying to make a point. Sadly, he wasn't.

 

Well, as I said, I was married by the time internet porn was free and highly prevalent. Even now on the internet it is impossible to fully avoid it, in my experience.

[jkwilliams]

Back when I was in the high priests group leadership (roughly 2006 or so), we were told in a training meeting that somewhere around 60% of the active adult males in our stake (which included wards for single and married students) had acknowledged using pornography at least occasionally. I have no idea how they arrived at that figure, but the stake presidency was very serious about the issue.

 

Judging by the numbers of men in the 12-step program in Orem 2 years ago, I'd say there are a lot of active priesthood holders using pornography, as I suspect the number of men attending those meetings is pretty small compared to the number who view pornography.

[Bikeemikey]

Back when I was in the high priests group leadership (roughly 2006 or so), we were told in a training meeting that somewhere around 60% of the active adult males in our stake (which included wards for single and married students) had acknowledged using pornography at least occasionally. I have no idea how they arrived at that figure, but the stake presidency was very serious about the issue.

 

Judging by the numbers of men in the 12-step program in Orem 2 years ago, I'd say there are a lot of active priesthood holders using pornography, as I suspect the number of men attending those meetings is pretty small compared to the number who view pornography.

 

Which would be appropriate because the majority of the people viewing porn would not be addicted (assuming their viewing was occasional).

[Calm]

Should the victim have been more diligent then?

Do you mean should everyone grill their future spouses?  Hadn't considered that, but I remember when we were engaged there was this '100 questions you should ask your future spouse' thing going around and it included questions about how one was going to raise children and such.

 

I do think it is a good idea to have conversations about how one expects to respond in the future though of course we can never really tell until we are actually in that situation.

 

Perhaps a question should be added (and I don't think one should be asking for info until one has made the commitment while it might be wise to offer info slightly before one asks commitment of others) along the lines of 'is there any habit you have had in the past that I might be able to be helpful with avoiding through emotional or other support?' and 'is there anything in your past that you feel might hurt the relationship if I came to know of it after marriage'.  And if one asks the question, they better be willing to share any such things themselves.

 

But we haven't been teaching people they should be this careful with spouses so I don't see it as the fault of a spouse if they didn't ask…nor do I think it is wrong for a person not to have shared it if they thought it was completely in their past.  People misjudge themselves all the time and act on that misjudgment.  I don't think we should lay guilt on them because of something they sincerely believed but were wrong about.

[Bikeemikey]

This is a fun little article:

 

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/22/1279622/-Mormons-Declare-War-on-Masturbation?detail=email#

 

[Tacenda]

Where did you read it?

 

Read it on another forum.  But here is the quote....

 

"Today was Stake Auxiliary Training. I'm the RS Pres in my ward. It was a lot of the usual: increasing testimonies of the members, fellowshipping, praying to know the needs of those we serve. And the unusual: pornography.

I say unusual, but I know this is a frequent topic for the Priesthood. Our SP referred to a meeting he was in with Pres Uchtdorf back in 2004 where they were taught that every priesthood meeting they held needed to touch on pornography in some way because it is such a rampant problem among the men. He then gave us statistics and said that ten years ago, 30-40% of active men in the church had a pornography problem--or addiction, he used the terms interchangeably. But that number has risen to 70%. When he said that, the sister sitting next to me gasped. And really, what a shocking statistic, to say that 70% of our men have a porn addiction! He then described the way men would think they could handle their problems on their own and keep it from their leaders for years until their wives found out about it or the guilt started to tear their families apart. He talked about what a terrible effect pornography has on these men's wives and families, but really didn't describe HOW it affected them. Only that it hurt their wives.

His point in talking to the RS leaders about this was that apparently the men can't fix this problem on their own. They need the women's help. As leaders, we need to provide a means for the women to confide in us, express their concerns about their husbands, and be a support to them. And we need to help the men get their porn addictions under control. As he was finishing his presentation, another sister raised her hand and asked exactly what we are supposed to do if someone does confide in one of us. The answer was, of course, report it to the Bishop."