Bom: Do We Really Need It?

[Gervin]

 

 

There are clear statements in the BOM which totally revolutionize what we thought we knew about Christianity.  If you don't find those valuable, then what IS valuable in anything Joseph "wrote"?

Curious about who "we" are, but more curious about finding a link about this revolutionized thought, if there is one. thx

[Palerider]

I would suggest that perhaps you have not read the Book of Mormon with much intent. Some unique teachings of the Book of Mormon:

 

Why Christ, being perfect, still needed to be baptized (2 Nephi 31:4–10)

The atonement is "infinite and eternal". (Alma 34:14)

All things given of God are a type of Christ and testify of Him (2 Nephi 11:4, Alma 30:44)

The nature of the resurrection: "this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that they can die no more, their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal..." (Alma 11:45)

How Satan will be bound during the millennium (1 Nephi 22:26)

What motivates Satan - retribution for his misery (2 Nephi 2:18, 2 Nephi 2:27)

The devil hates all men, including those that follow him (Alma 30:60)

The fall of Adam and Eve was part of God's plan – had he not fallen, they would have remained in the garden forever, knowing no joy or misery, doing no good nor evil, having no children. (2 Nephi 2:22–25)

This life is a probationary state, a time to prepare to meet God. (Alma 42:1-10,13, Alma 12:24 (20-24), Alma 34:32)

"We are saved by grace, after all we can do." (2 Nephi 25:23)

Baptism existed before John the Baptist (2 Nephi 31:4–6,8,11–12 Mosiah 18:10,13,15–17)

How to retain a remission of your sins (Mosiah 4:11-26)

We must repent, be baptized and become as a little child or we can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. (3 Nephi 11:37–38)

Baptism not for infants (Moroni 8:4-23)

Why we need the Book of Mormon in addition to the Bible (2 Nephi 29:1-14, Title Page (see end of last paragraph))

The answer to the age-old question 'How can God be a god of love, yet have commanded the Israelites to destroy the Canaanites?' (1 Nephi 17:32–45)

Priestcraft defined and condemned (2 Nephi 26:29-31)

"By small and simple things are great things brought to pass, and by very small means the Lord doth confound the wise and bringeth about the salvation of many souls" (Alma 37:6, 1 Nephi 16:9)

The role and ministry of angels (Moroni 7:25,29-32)

 

 

 

Why Christ, being perfect, still needed to be baptized (2 Nephi 31:4–10)

 

Explained in Matt.3:15 and Mark 1:11

 

The atonement is "infinite and eternal". (Alma 34:14)

 

2 Tim. 2:10

2 Cor. 4:17

Heb. 5:9

John 10:28

 

All things given of God are a type of Christ and testify of Him (2 Nephi 11:4, Alma 30:44)

 

Colossians 2:16-17

Heb. 8: 4-6

Acts 3:18

 

The nature of the resurrection: "this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that they can die no more, their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal..." (Alma 11:45)

 

Luke 24:39

1 john 3:2

Heb.13:8

Colossians 3:4

Ephesians 2:6

Romans 8:11

 

How Satan will be bound during the millennium (1 Nephi 22:26)

 

The real way in which Satan will be bound: Rev. 20:1-2

 

What motivates Satan - retribution for his misery (2 Nephi 2:18, 2 Nephi 2:27)

 

Revelation 12:9-10

 

The devil hates all men, including those that follow him (Alma 30:60)

 

This is an eye opener??????

 

The fall of Adam and Eve was part of God's plan – had he not fallen, they would have remained in the garden forever, knowing no joy or misery, doing no good nor evil, having no children. (2 Nephi 2:22–25)

 

Fortunate Fall or “Felix culpa” has been around for centuries, including Milton’s Paradise Lost. Not a surprise to see Joseph include it here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_culpa

 

 

This life is a probationary state, a time to prepare to meet God. (Alma 42:1-10,13, Alma 12:24 (20-24), Alma 34:32)

 

"We are saved by grace, after all we can do." (2 Nephi 25:23)

 

 

This is a false doctrine.

 

 

Baptism existed before John the Baptist (2 Nephi 31:4–6,8,11–12 Mosiah 18:10,13,15–17)

 

How to retain a remission of your sins (Mosiah 4:11-26)

 

 

Heb. 10: 16-26

 

Romans 1:16 – 2:10

 

We must repent, be baptized and become as a little child or we can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. (3 Nephi 11:37–38)

 

Luke 18:17

 

Baptism not for infants (Moroni 8:4-23)

 

 

Interesting that you should bring this up. Because the Mormons are just a half step behind Catholics in this area. A Jewish child is considered approaching accountability at approx. Age 12-13

 

Yet, you baptize little children who are arguably not hardly accountable for sin. Isn’t this like the pot calling the kettle black?

 

Luke 18:16

 

So if the Savior said to you: “Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God” would you really come to the conclusion that they needed to be baptized for the remission of sins?????

See also Romans 5:14-15 and see if you can figure that one out and then get back to me.

 

Why we need the Book of Mormon in addition to the Bible (2 Nephi 29:1-14, Title Page (see end of last paragraph))

 

This is circular logic: “We need the Book of Mormon because the Book of Mormon says we do............

Right.....

 

The answer to the age-old question 'How can God be a god of love, yet have commanded the Israelites to destroy the Canaanites?' (1 Nephi 17:32–45)

 

This is nothing more than a commentary on Leviticus 18:24-30, Even you could have written it.

 

Priestcraft defined and condemned (2 Nephi 26:29-31)

 

"By small and simple things are great things brought to pass, and by very small means the Lord doth confound the wise and bringeth about the salvation of many souls" (Alma 37:6, 1 Nephi 16:9)

 

1 Cor. 1:27

 

The role and ministry of angels (Moroni 7:25,29-32)

 

Heb. 1:13-14

 

I think Paul beat him to it.............

 

I may have missed one or two but I have limited time and I think you get the point.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Palerider

[why me]

So one must have written a book to be a true prophet? Don't tell that to Moses, Samuel, Elijah, et al.

I thought JS received the priesthood by divine ordination and not by virtue of publishing the BOM. Isn't that the real source of the restoration?

I guess that one doesn't need a book to be a prophet. But of course in Mormonism there is a book that came about by divine intervention through Joseph Smith. So, we do have a problem. Now if there were no book and Joseph claimed to be a prophet, then one could go by your assumption that one does not need a book to be a prophet. But in our case there is a book. We can not change that fact and claim that the book is fiction but Joseph still had a heavenly visitation to restore the priesthood.

[Duncan]

Why Christ, being perfect, still needed to be baptized (2 Nephi 31:4–10)

 

Explained in Matt.3:15 and Mark 1:11

 

The atonement is "infinite and eternal". (Alma 34:14)

 

2 Tim. 2:10

2 Cor. 4:17

Heb. 5:9

John 10:28

 

All things given of God are a type of Christ and testify of Him (2 Nephi 11:4, Alma 30:44)

 

Colossians 2:16-17

Heb. 8: 4-6

Acts 3:18

 

The nature of the resurrection: "this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that they can die no more, their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal..." (Alma 11:45)

 

Luke 24:39

1 john 3:2

Heb.13:8

Colossians 3:4

Ephesians 2:6

Romans 8:11

 

How Satan will be bound during the millennium (1 Nephi 22:26)

 

The real way in which Satan will be bound: Rev. 20:1-2

 

What motivates Satan - retribution for his misery (2 Nephi 2:18, 2 Nephi 2:27)

 

Revelation 12:9-10

 

The devil hates all men, including those that follow him (Alma 30:60)

 

This is an eye opener??????

 

The fall of Adam and Eve was part of God's plan – had he not fallen, they would have remained in the garden forever, knowing no joy or misery, doing no good nor evil, having no children. (2 Nephi 2:22–25)

 

Fortunate Fall or “Felix culpa” has been around for centuries, including Milton’s Paradise Lost. Not a surprise to see Joseph include it here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_culpa

 

 

This life is a probationary state, a time to prepare to meet God. (Alma 42:1-10,13, Alma 12:24 (20-24), Alma 34:32)

 

"We are saved by grace, after all we can do." (2 Nephi 25:23)

 

 

This is a false doctrine.

 

 

Baptism existed before John the Baptist (2 Nephi 31:4–6,8,11–12 Mosiah 18:10,13,15–17)

 

How to retain a remission of your sins (Mosiah 4:11-26)

 

 

Heb. 10: 16-26

 

Romans 1:16 – 2:10

 

We must repent, be baptized and become as a little child or we can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. (3 Nephi 11:37–38)

 

Luke 18:17

 

Baptism not for infants (Moroni 8:4-23)

 

 

Interesting that you should bring this up. Because the Mormons are just a half step behind Catholics in this area. A Jewish child is considered approaching accountability at approx. Age 12-13

 

Yet, you baptize little children who are arguably not hardly accountable for sin. Isn’t this like the pot calling the kettle black?

 

Luke 18:16

 

So if the Savior said to you: “Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God” would you really come to the conclusion that they needed to be baptized for the remission of sins?????

See also Romans 5:14-15 and see if you can figure that one out and then get back to me.

 

Why we need the Book of Mormon in addition to the Bible (2 Nephi 29:1-14, Title Page (see end of last paragraph))

 

This is circular logic: “We need the Book of Mormon because the Book of Mormon says we do............

Right.....

 

The answer to the age-old question 'How can God be a god of love, yet have commanded the Israelites to destroy the Canaanites?' (1 Nephi 17:32–45)

 

This is nothing more than a commentary on Leviticus 18:24-30, Even you could have written it.

 

Priestcraft defined and condemned (2 Nephi 26:29-31)

 

"By small and simple things are great things brought to pass, and by very small means the Lord doth confound the wise and bringeth about the salvation of many souls" (Alma 37:6, 1 Nephi 16:9)

 

1 Cor. 1:27

 

The role and ministry of angels (Moroni 7:25,29-32)

 

Heb. 1:13-14

 

I think Paul beat him to it.............

 

I may have missed one or two but I have limited time and I think you get the point.

 

 

the Book of Mormon has 5 reasons why Christ was baptized and those two verse you cite posit on reason, the mark verse just says that God the father was pleased... checked out the resurrection verses because CSI is a rerun and it looks like it descends in convinciability

Edited January 16, 2014 by Duncan

[why me]

I think Paul beat him to it.............

 

I may have missed one or two but I have limited time and I think you get the point.

And if the book of mormon was directly opposed to the bible in its teachings, would that make it more believable and true? I would have to assume that the teachings would need to be rather the same and not different unless of course god would have a different plan for the people of the new world.

[mormonnewb]

I guess that one doesn't need a book to be a prophet. But of course in Mormonism there is a book that came about by divine intervention through Joseph Smith. So, we do have a problem. Now if there were no book and Joseph claimed to be a prophet, then one could go by your assumption that one does not need a book to be a prophet. But in our case there is a book. We can not change that fact and claim that the book is fiction but Joseph still had a heavenly visitation to restore the priesthood.

 

Yes, that is a slight problem, isn't it?  Perhaps, we could just sort of "de-emphasize it."  Or say that "it's too sacred to speak about."  

[BlueDreams]

Okay. So I'm starting to see why we need the Book of Mormon but I'm still not convinced that we should LEAD with it, given the difficulties with its historicity.

 

This assumes that because it was difficult for you to take, many others haven't had that same experience. The book's major purpose by the writers/keepers was to convert unto Christ. I've personally witnessed it as a doing so powerfully. A number of people I met or taught on my mission were brought to the church in large part because of it. One man I knew, had a long and struggling way to conversion. At the last minute he tried to back out, renouncing/intellectualizing/wrangling his way out of everything....he tried to do that with the BoM, and couldn't do so honestly, it stopped him and it would be instrumental in changing his heart for baptism. Another person was in the depths of severe, debilitating depression/grief, she described reading the book and feeling happy when she did so (it was so strange that she was shocked that she was even saying such). Another had been severely turned away and overwhelmed by her family and some aspects of church history, but she came back because she found there was really something with the BoM.

 

 

This is just the short version of their stories that I found to be miraculous. And there's more I haven't mentioned. Jonah's story usually does not have the same effect . Though it may not have the same effect and there are a number who don't find the same sense of power....the book is powerful to many a potential convert. It's often used to lead out, because it does have the power to change heart, lives, and minds toward the restored gospel.

 

With luv,

BD

[why me]

Yes, that is a slight problem, isn't it?  Perhaps, we could just sort of "de-emphasize it."  Or say that "it's too sacred to speak about."  

I think that you now realize that your argument is null and void. The book of mormon comes with the package. Of course, one could forsake it as the CoC did. But...that will not happen.

[Palerider]

And if the book of mormon was directly opposed to the bible in its teachings, would that make it more believable and true? I would have to assume that the teachings would need to be rather the same and not different unless of course god would have a different plan for the people of the new world.

 

Sorry, no moving the goal posts.

 

The position was that the BofM had numerous doctrines that could only be found there.

 

The reality is that Joseph simply took Biblical doctrines that were either a little obscure or required some critical thinking, and then made commentary on them to suit himself, just as he did when "re-translating" the Bible. And we see how well that worked out. 

 

From what I've read here from TBM's, most are running away from the "inspired version" as a true or actual translation.

 

It's like I tell my brother when he tries to talk to a non-english speaking hispanic: "Just because you're speaking english with a spanish accent, doesn't mean your speaking Spanish...."

 

Just because you're puting your "commentary" in elizabethan english doesn't mean your really translating scripture or establishing new doctrine..........

Edited January 16, 2014 by Palerider

[Tacenda]

Sorry, no moving the goal posts.

The position was that the BofM had numerous doctrines that could only be found there.

The reality is that Joseph simply took Biblical doctrines that were either a little obscure or required some critical thinking, and then made commentary on them to suit himself, just as he did when "re-translating" the Bible. And we see how well that worked out.

From what I've read here from TBM's most are running away from the "inspired version" as a true translation.

It's like I tell my brother when he tries to talk to a non-english speaking hispanic: "Just because you're speaking english with a spanish accent, doesn't mean your speaking Spanish...."

Just because you're puting your "commentary" in elizabethan english doesn't mean your really translating scripture or establishing new doctrine..........

Joseph Smith wasn't alone in wanting answers to questions regarding God. He and others received revelations. But he started answering them and developed a new religion.

And he was much more learned than people know. He apparently had a library card, heard that today. Plus, his mother Lucy said he regaled their family with stories he'd made up. Seems to me the BoM could be inspired fiction.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Tacenda

[mormonnewb]

I think that you now realize that your argument is null and void. The book of mormon comes with the package. Of course, one could forsake it as the CoC did. But...that will not happen.

 

While the numerous heartfelt testimonies and persuasive arguments are enough for me to pick up the Book of Mormon again to see if I can gain a testimony of its truth for myself, I can't imagine that it will ever top this:

 

 

 

Here's what the ladies in RS came by and did for my wife's birthday tomorrow.  This is how I KNOW the Church is true.

 

"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." -- John 13:35

[mormonnewb]

Joseph Smith wasn't alone in wanting answers to questions. He and others received revelations. But he started answering them with a new religion. And he was much more learned than people know, he apparently had a library card, heard that today...plus his mother Lucy said he regaled his family with stories he'd made up. Seems to me the BoM could be inspired fiction.

 

I listened to that same episode of Mormon Matters yesterday!

[Tacenda]

I listened to that same episode of Mormon Matters yesterday!

Oh good! I was worried someone was going to CFR me. Glad to know I heard right. That was a good podcast, I listened on the way to work but didn't finish it.

[Palerider]

the Book of Mormon has 5 reasons why Christ was baptized and those two verse you cite posit on reason, the mark verse just says that God the father was pleased... checked out the resurrection verses because CSI is a rerun and it looks like it descends in convinciability

 

I don't think so.

 

2 Nephi 31:4-10 is nothing more than a reiteration of already present Biblical principles.

 

1. "It becometh us to fulfill all righteousness" Matt. 3:15

2. "But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do." John 14:31

3. " For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you."  John 13:15

4. "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."  Matt. 7:14

 

It really doesn't take all that much to adopt elizabethan english and create a sermon from already existing doctrines or principles.

 

It's done every Sunday in thousands of wards for sacrament meetings........except we use modern english.

[mormonnewb]

Oh good! I was worried someone was going to CFR me. Glad to know I heard right. That was a good podcast, I listened on the way to work but didn't finish it.

 

I expect you're still going to get CFR'd on it, so be ready.  I think it either came from Rough Stone Rolling or from something by Lucy Smith.

[Duncan]

I don't think so.

 

2 Nephi 31:4-10 is nothing more than a reiteration of already present Biblical principles.

 

1. "It becometh us to fulfill all righteousness" Matt. 3:15

2. "But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do." John 14:31

3. " For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you."  John 13:15

4. "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."  Matt. 7:14

 

It really doesn't take all that much to adopt elizabethan english and create a sermon from already existing doctrines or principles.

 

It's done every Sunday in thousands of wards for sacrament meetings........except we use modern english.

 

I was thinking of some others from 2 Nephi 31

witness of his humilty

obedient to the commandments

work out his own salvation

provide an example

enjoy the companionship of the Holy Ghost

[Duncan]

I expect you're still going to get CFR'd on it, so be ready.  I think it either came from Rough Stone Rolling or from something by Lucy Smith.

 

 

I suspect that mormon matters provides an interpretation of what Lucy Mack Smith said. if she didn't believe his stories she wouldn't have joined the Church

[Palerider]

Joseph Smith wasn't alone in wanting answers to questions regarding God. He and others received revelations. But he started answering them and developed a new religion.

And he was much more learned than people know. He apparently had a library card, heard that today. Plus, his mother Lucy said he regaled their family with stories he'd made up. Seems to me the BoM could be inspired fiction.

 

I've been spiritually moved by fictional stories numerous times in my life. They motivate me to live better and to want to draw closer to Heavenly Father in some cases.  Doesn't make them historical.......... 

[Tacenda]

While the numerous heartfelt testimonies and persuasive arguments are enough for me to pick up the Book of Mormon again to see if I can gain a testimony of its truth for myself, I can't imagine that it will ever top this:

Here's what the ladies in RS came by and did for my wife's birthday tomorrow. This is how I KNOW the Church is true.

"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." -- John 13:35

I've been a member my whole life, I'm glad you're seeing the good in mormonism. There's so much, and it's goodness on steroids. But when I look at other faiths, for instance the EV's, they tell theirselves everyday their sinners and how much they need Grace. We as LDS know we are children of God right out the door. Thereby making us feel more in tune possibly? Does that make sense? I just wonder if elevating ourselves more makes us act differently, or is that hog wash? Or is it our callings that make us serve? Or our covenants we make. Or constant teachings to read the scriptures and pray. Or our good living like abstaining from alcohol/cigarettes...both can be gateways to other drugs.

But with all the good there can be underlining problems and we must be careful of not taking it all so seriously that we don't stop to smell the roses. Or get tunnel vision or be dogmatic, speaking from experience. But being on this board I get to see some very normal and fun LDS people. The church is very true in the goodness department!

[Palerider]

I was thinking of some others from 2 Nephi 31

witness of his humilty........ # 2.

obedient to the commandments........#2.

work out his own salvation.........I don't see those terms being used that he was "working out his own salvation". Can you reference the verse?

provide an example........#3.

enjoy the companionship of the Holy Ghost.........Matt. 3:16

 

I also have a huge problem with this chapter in general. Most Mormons say that Christ is the God of the Old Testament and that He is the one who deals with us when revelation is given, because He is our intermediary with the Father. I know I've seen some dithering on that concept here lately, but that is the way it has always been taught.

So why is Nephi stating in verse 11, that the Father spoke to him and said: "repent ye, repent ye and be baptized in the name of my beloved son." ?

[rodheadlee]

Agreed.  Even with all of the historical evidence that sets much of the Bible in specific times and places, there is no objective PROOF that Christ was the Messiah.  In the end, it does come down to a leap of faith.  However, there are things that can shorten the distance of that leap.  For me, researching the subject on the Internet widened that chasm, making the leap harder.

 

Of course, that was just MY experience and I am certainly, shall we say, "unique" in my thought processes.  Perhaps, there are others on the board who were also not raised in the Church, but received confirmation of the BOM from the text itself.  Bueller? Anyone?  Bueller?

I was a convert at the age of 28. I had been studying the bible with a TV preacher who was very innovative . I learned about the lost 10 tribes, studied all kinds of things including the blessings Israel gave to his sons, the blessings to Abraham, the pyramids, the area that the antichrist was to come from etc. We studied with local Bible groups (Baptists) we studied with the JWs and other Christian groups. One day I hiked up to the top of a local mountain to pray about what was God's will for me.  Within 2 days the missionaries came to my door. On that first visit  they were barely in the door before I grabbed the Book of Mormon out of their hands, opened it and I was stunned. After reading only a few chapters. I received such a powerful witness from the Holy Spirit there has never been any doubt for me that the Book of Mormon was the true word of God. That was 32 years ago.

[Calm]

.

And he was much more learned than people know. He apparently had a library card, heard that today. Plus, his mother Lucy said he regaled their family with stories he'd made up. Seems to me the BoM could be inspired fiction.

. I know three year old's with library cards...wouldn't call them learned. What he did with that card is what one should be interested in. Anyone give you a list of what books he checked out? Was it a free or paying library, I had only heard of the latter for that time period and considering their financial state if paying, the card's nice and all but probably gathered dust mostly.

His own writing and vocabulary, usually a very good indicator as to how much one reads (the more one reads the larger and more complicated a vocab), seems to indicate not very well read...but one really needs to test it against others of his time and not ours. What was the typical vocabulary of his time, etc.

The stories Lucy told about occurred after the visions...iow Moroni had given him instruction in the culture and history and shown him enough through visions that Joseph then passed the info on to others. Not much learning is required for that, or creativity.

[Calm]

http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/%22Amusing_recitals%22_of_ancient_American_inhabitants

Nothing indicating she thought they were "made up":

"Lucy's 1853 autobiography, Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet, and His Progenitors for many Generations was considered inaccurate by Brigham Young and was ordered to be rewritten. The reasons for this had nothing to do with Lucy's account of her son Joseph's "amusing recitals." The 1853 autobiography and the 1845 manuscript upon which it was based still exist, and both confirm that the "amusing recitals" mentioned by Lucy were done during the period during which Joseph was being instructed by the angel as he waited to retrieve the gold plates. Lucy Mack Smith said the following in her 1853 autobiography:

During our evening conversations, Joseph would occasionally give us some of the most amusing recitals that could be imagined. He would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent, their dress, mode of travelings, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, their buildings, with every particular; their mode of warfare; and also their religious worship. This he would do with as much ease, seemingly, as if he had spent his whole life among them.[1]

Critics use this as proof that Joseph Smith was a "teller of tall tales," and that he had a mind imaginative enough to create the story of the Book of Mormon on his own. B.H. Roberts, in his critical study of the Book of Mormon, pointed out how future critics might make use of this.

The face of it is first established by the testimony of the mother who bore him, Lucy Smith. Speaking of the days immediately following the revelation making known the existence of the Book of Mormon to her son...Lucy Smith in her History of the Prophet Joseph Smith, recounts how in the evening of that day, the young prophet sat up late detailing to the family the wonderful conversations he had with the angel;[2]

What critics do not point out, however, is that immediately prior to making this statement, Lucy told the story of Joseph's vision of the angel, and how he talked with his family in the evenings about the instruction that he had received. From Lucy's 1853 biography, we read:

Joseph commenced telling us the great and glorious things which God had manifested to him...he proceeded to relate further particulars concerning the work which he was appointed to do...From this time forth, Joseph continued to receive instructions from the Lord, and we continued to get the children together every evening, for the purpose of listening while he gave us a relation of the same...During our evening conversations, Joseph would occasionally give us some of the most amusing recitals... (emphasis added)[3]

From Lucy's 1845 manuscript, we read:

Now said he[,] Father and Mother the angel of the Lord says that we must be careful not to proclaim these things or to mention them abroad For we do not any of us know the wickedness of the world which is so sinful that when we get the plates they will want to kill us for the sake of the gold if they know we had <have> them...by sunset [we] were ready to be seated and give our atten undivided attention to Josephs recitals...From this time forth Joseph continued to receive instructions from time to time and every evening we gathered our children togather [together]...In the course of our evening conversations Joseph would give us some of the most ammusing [amusing] recitals which could be immagined [imagined]. he would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent their dress their man[n]er of traveling the animals which they rode The cities that were built by them the structure of their buildings with every particular of their mode of warfare their religious worship as particularly as though he had spent his life with them...The angel informed him at one time that he might make an effort to obtain the plates <on> the <22nd of the> ensueing september...[4]

Lucy Mack Smith simply said in her autobiography that her son told the family about information connected with the angel and the Book of Mormon plates (see Anderson, ed., Lucy's Book, 345). Lucy told the same information to Wandle Mace about seven years prior to producing her 1845 autobiography and clarified that this information was connected with the Book of Mormon "Nephites" and was shown to her son by vision.

In Joseph Smith's own official history he confirmed that he learned this information through the power of visions (Times and Seasons, vol. 3, no. 9, 1 March 1842, 707) and Oliver Cowdery made note of the same thing (Messenger and Advocate, vol. 1, no. 7, April 1835, 112). Thus, the origin of the stories mentioned by Joseph's mother in her autobiography was a heavenly one—she was not even remotely implying that her son was a teller of tall tales."

Edited January 16, 2014 by calmoriah

[why me]

Joseph Smith wasn't alone in wanting answers to questions regarding God. He and others received revelations. But he started answering them and developed a new religion.

And he was much more learned than people know. He apparently had a library card, heard that today. Plus, his mother Lucy said he regaled their family with stories he'd made up. Seems to me the BoM could be inspired fiction.

I think that you may need to be more selective in your websites or read them much more questioningly. Even Emma stated that no way could he put together a coherent sentence. When one reads the letters that he wrote emma one sees a guy who had difficulties in writing. And perhaps this is one reason he tried to avoid writing as much as possible. Here is something interesting to read:

 

http://www.nauvoo.com/library/card-bookofmormon.html

 

I don't think that the local library at his time had a large collection of books. And no one in town reported him hanging around the library very much. Certainly if I were the librarian and saw young joseph taking out books on topics related to the book of mormon I may just request an interview with the local newspaper and spill the beans. And I am sure that the critics at that time went to the library just to see if 'joe smith' spent some time there. But...he didn't.

[Tacenda]

http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/%22Amusing_recitals%22_of_ancient_American_inhabitants

Nothing indicating she thought they were "made up":

"Lucy's 1853 autobiography, Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet, and His Progenitors for many Generations was considered inaccurate by Brigham Young and was ordered to be rewritten. The reasons for this had nothing to do with Lucy's account of her son Joseph's "amusing recitals." The 1853 autobiography and the 1845 manuscript upon which it was based still exist, and both confirm that the "amusing recitals" mentioned by Lucy were done during the period during which Joseph was being instructed by the angel as he waited to retrieve the gold plates. Lucy Mack Smith said the following in her 1853 autobiography:

During our evening conversations, Joseph would occasionally give us some of the most amusing recitals that could be imagined. He would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent, their dress, mode of travelings, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, their buildings, with every particular; their mode of warfare; and also their religious worship. This he would do with as much ease, seemingly, as if he had spent his whole life among them.[1]

Critics use this as proof that Joseph Smith was a "teller of tall tales," and that he had a mind imaginative enough to create the story of the Book of Mormon on his own. B.H. Roberts, in his critical study of the Book of Mormon, pointed out how future critics might make use of this.

The face of it is first established by the testimony of the mother who bore him, Lucy Smith. Speaking of the days immediately following the revelation making known the existence of the Book of Mormon to her son...Lucy Smith in her History of the Prophet Joseph Smith, recounts how in the evening of that day, the young prophet sat up late detailing to the family the wonderful conversations he had with the angel;[2]

What critics do not point out, however, is that immediately prior to making this statement, Lucy told the story of Joseph's vision of the angel, and how he talked with his family in the evenings about the instruction that he had received. From Lucy's 1853 biography, we read:

Joseph commenced telling us the great and glorious things which God had manifested to him...he proceeded to relate further particulars concerning the work which he was appointed to do...From this time forth, Joseph continued to receive instructions from the Lord, and we continued to get the children together every evening, for the purpose of listening while he gave us a relation of the same...During our evening conversations, Joseph would occasionally give us some of the most amusing recitals... (emphasis added)[3]

From Lucy's 1845 manuscript, we read:

Now said he[,] Father and Mother the angel of the Lord says that we must be careful not to proclaim these things or to mention them abroad For we do not any of us know the wickedness of the world which is so sinful that when we get the plates they will want to kill us for the sake of the gold if they know we had <have> them...by sunset [we] were ready to be seated and give our atten undivided attention to Josephs recitals...From this time forth Joseph continued to receive instructions from time to time and every evening we gathered our children togather [together]...In the course of our evening conversations Joseph would give us some of the most ammusing [amusing] recitals which could be immagined [imagined]. he would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent their dress their man[n]er of traveling the animals which they rode The cities that were built by them the structure of their buildings with every particular of their mode of warfare their religious worship as particularly as though he had spent his life with them...The angel informed him at one time that he might make an effort to obtain the plates <on> the <22nd of the> ensueing september...[4]

Lucy Mack Smith simply said in her autobiography that her son told the family about information connected with the angel and the Book of Mormon plates (see Anderson, ed., Lucy's Book, 345). Lucy told the same information to Wandle Mace about seven years prior to producing her 1845 autobiography and clarified that this information was connected with the Book of Mormon "Nephites" and was shown to her son by vision.

In Joseph Smith's own official history he confirmed that he learned this information through the power of visions (Times and Seasons, vol. 3, no. 9, 1 March 1842, 707) and Oliver Cowdery made note of the same thing (Messenger and Advocate, vol. 1, no. 7, April 1835, 112). Thus, the origin of the stories mentioned by Joseph's mother in her autobiography was a heavenly one—she was not even remotely implying that her son was a teller of tall tales."

And that is the rest of the story.