The Harm In Disobeying The Word Of Wisdom

[theplains]

I had a question about something mentioned in chapter 11 of "Teachings of Presidents

of the Church - David O. McKay".

 

"President McKay taught and testified that the Word of Wisdom was a commandment 

given by the Lord to bless us both physically and spiritually" (page 103).

 

Disobeying the Word of Wisdom brings harmful physical and spiritual consequences.

 

"There is a substance in tea and coffee which when taken into the human system, tends 

to increase the beating of the heart; which in turn increases the rapidity of the 

circulation of the blood and of breathing. This causes the body to become warmer and

more exhilarated. After a time, however, this temporary enlivenment passes off, and 

the body is really in a greater need of rest and recuperation than it was before the 

beverage was taken. Stimulants are to the body what the lash is to the lagging horse—

it causes a spurt forward but gives no permanent strength or natural nourishment. 

Frequently repetitions of the lash only make the horse more lazy; and the habitual 

use of strong drink, tobacco, tea, and coffee, only tends to make the body weaker and

more dependent upon the stimulants to which it is addicted. The Lord has said in 

unmistakable words that these things are not good for man. Science declares the same. 

God’s word alone should be sufficient for every true Latter-day Saint" (page 104).

 

Is caffeine the substance that Latter-day Saints are commanded to avoid?  If yes, has 

any General Conference talk or Ensign magazine ever told members to also avoid Coke, 

Pepsi, GingerAle, etc?

 

Thanks,

Jim

[bluebell]

No, caffeine is not the substance that LDS are commanded to avoid.

 

If i remember right, Pres. McKay loved to drink Coke.

[Grudunza]

The Church has clarified in recent years that caffeine is NOT specifically prohibited by the Word of Wisdom.  However, there have also been several articles in the Ensign about avoiding energy drinks and such, and anything that is habit-forming.  I've struggled in recent years with drinking soda, and I'm currently off of it for quite a while and feel much better.  I can justify to say well, I have to drive several hours for my job (I often do), so I could use something to keep me alert, but really that's a lie, because I've done that many many times without drinking caffeine.  I may just need a nap at some point, but often, even when drinking soda, I'll still need that nap on a long drive.  

 

And yes, as Pres. McKay describes, that kind of exhilaration and nervousness does seem to happen for me when I'm in that mode (drinking caffeinated drinks), where there's a push-pull of my body's energy, a feeling of not getting good sleep, and an increased feeling of thinking I need it (dependence).  If I could indeed just drink a diet Wild Cherry Pepsi once in a while, like at a barbecue or on a long drive, that would probably be okay, but I've found that in so doing, in having now allowed myself or justified myself to do that, that it will almost certainly become a habit, to the point that I'm seeking that out at many other times, not just when it might actually be somewhat beneficial to my alertness or enjoyable as a beverage.

But of course, caffeine is in chocolate (in much smaller amounts) and in some migraine medicines and other foods and substances, so I believe that's why the Church had to make a point to clarify that caffeine specifically is not against the Word of Wisdom.  It is definitely in a much higher concentration in coffee/tea and energy drinks, though.  But I feel that the WoW is to some extent a personal thing, anyway, which we each must fine-tune to our own body's needs.  My wife had a myriad of health issues, and though green tea is normally considered "tea" and in violation of the WoW, one of her doctors recommended that to help with something she had, and our bishop agreed.  Therefore, in her case, that was not a WoW violation.  It's easy to become our own doctors and justify or rationalize all kinds of harmful things to ourselves, though, so I've had to learn (the hard way, at times) that just because caffeine isn't strictly prohibited by the WoW, for me, it's not a good fit and should be avoided in amounts that are intended to have some energizing effect (i.e., soda/energy drinks).

[rpn]

God hasn't said why He bans coffee and tea.  Therefore, as they are prone to do, mortals speculated.   Some of the speculation reach the status of cult following, prompting leaders recently to remind everyone that the Lord hasn't banned caffeine. 

 

I think the harm may be entirely different for various people.   Coffee costs a lot, it requires labor that don't meet western standards and probably not God's standards for treating people.   It interferes with getting sufficient sleep and can make people be rude and mean to each other.   Drinking it historically accompanied smoking, with its own dangers.   Drinking it wastes a lot of time and causes fights in the break room over washing the cups and who is mooching.   Etc., Etc.

 

On the other hand, for a view people caffeine can be a cheap and easily used ADHD treatment.

[thesometimesaint]

As with anything too much of a good thing is too much. We'd probably be better off health wise if we limited the amounts of caffeine we ingest. Take a little chocolate for the stomachs sake.

[JLHPROF]

I have said many times, that the Word of Wisdom is the most poorly interpreted and poorly followed piece of divine instruction.

Really, we just need to read it and stop overthinking it.

 

1. Is it a commandment? "not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days"

So it is the will of God, but it is not a direct commandment.

 

2. What is actually forbidden?

Alcohol - inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

Strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies. (Identified with wine, so liquor)

Tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle

Hot drinks are not for the body or belly (no specification as to tea, coffee or any ingredient, just temperature)

 

3. What is actually recommended?

All wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man

Herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof

Flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;  And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit

 

 

Really, all this debate over caffeine, coffee, tea, energy drinks or chocolate are completely irrelevant to the Word of Wisdom.  The scripture says what it says and that is all God has said on the matter.  We either follow it or we don't.  And picking and choosing which parts we focus on is not following it.

And as for the harm, well, the actual harm is the loss of the blessing and promise:

 

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ^ashall receive ^bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall ^afind ^bwisdom and great ^ctreasures of ^dknowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall ^arun and not be ^bweary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the ^adestroying angel shall ^bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

Edited January 5, 2014 by JLHPROF

[thesometimesaint]

It is a commandment. It also subject to interpretation by the Prophets. IE: Baptizmal and Temple attendance requires obeying the WoW as interpreted by the current Prophet.

[JLHPROF]

It is a commandment. It also subject to interpretation by the Prophets. IE: Baptizmal and Temple attendance requires obeying the WoW as interpreted by the current Prophet.

 

Based on what?  Where are we told it's a commandment?  God never called it such, but He did say it was His will.  Not a sin to break, but a promise to be lost.

 

And interpretation by the current prophet doesn't change the word of God.  It becomes the word of man.  Explanation by the prophet of what God said is however, entirely correct.

Scriptures aren't meant to be interpreted (according to Joseph Smith) but to be read as they are given from the mouth of God.

And using the current "interpretation" none of the first 4 prophets of the Church would be allowed in the temple.

Edited January 5, 2014 by JLHPROF

[Grudunza]

Really, all this debate over caffeine, coffee, tea, energy drinks or chocolate are completely irrelevant to the Word of Wisdom.  The scripture says what it says and that is all God has said on the matter.  We either follow it or we don't.  And picking and choosing which parts we focus on is not following it.

 

Eh, I don't think it's as cut-and-dried as that.  It has, in essence, changed to be a commandment, at least pertaining to the Saints and temple recommends and such.  And some of the specifics were contextual and catered to the time period, and as thesometimesaint says, interpretation from Prophets applies.  For example, if you are going to take "hot drinks" as being forbidden, based only on temperature, wouldn't that also include soup?  ("No soup for you!")  Of course, that seems absurd to me.  Thus the clarification was needed from the Prophets that "hot drinks" specifically means coffee and tea.  I think the WoW in particular needs some personal and modern revelation added to it, though I agree that it's simpler than many may interpret it as being. 

[thesometimesaint]

Based on what?  Where are we told it's a commandment?  God never called it such, but He did say it was His will.  Not a sin to break, but a promise to be lost.

 

And interpretation by the current prophet doesn't change the word of God.  It becomes the word of man.  Explanation by the prophet of what God said is however, entirely correct.

Scriptures aren't meant to be interpreted (according to Joseph Smith) but to be read as they are given from the mouth of God.

And using the current "interpretation" none of the first 4 prophets of the Church would be allowed in the temple.

 

http://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual/section-81-89/section-89-the-word-of-wisdom?lang=eng

 

Yes it does change our application of it. We do believe in modern revelation by the way. Christ in his mortal ministry never said a word about the internet either. Through his modern day prophets however he has said considerable.

 

Scriptures are not of private interpretation. We rely upon the Prophets to tell us what God wants for his Church.

SEE http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+4%3A11-13&version=KJV

 

Irrelevant. Christ himself drank wine, and so will we when he returns. I prefer a dry white wine.

[canard78]

Scriptures are not of private interpretation. We rely upon the Prophets to tell us what God wants for his Church.

SEE http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+4%3A11-13&version=KJV

 

I disagree. So does Hugh Nibley:

 

"There's no office in the Church that qualifies the holder to give the official interpretation of the Church. We're to read the scriptures for ourselves, as guided by the Spirit.

Joseph Smith himself often disagreed with various of his brethren on different points, yet he never cracked down on them, saying they'd better change this or that, or else. He disagreed with Parley P. Pratt on a number of things, and also with Brigham Young on various things."

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=103&chapid=1154

 

 

And Elder Brown:

 

“[W]hile all members should respect, support, and heed the teachings of the authorities of the church, no one should accept a statement and base his or her testimony upon it, no matter who makes it, until he or she has, under mature examination, found it to be true and worthwhile; then one’s logical deductions may be confirmed by the spirit of revelation to his or her spirit, because real conversion must come from within.”

President Hugh B. Brown, An Abundant Life:The Memoirs of Hugh B. Brown

 

 

And Elder Uchtdorf:

 

"Latter-day Saints are not asked to blindly accept everything they hear. We are encouraged to think and discover truth for ourselves. We are expected to ponder, to search, to evaluate, and thereby to come to a personal knowledge of the truth."

Elder Uchtdorf

http://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ces-devotionals/2013/01/what-is-truth?lang=eng

 

[Acris Venator]

Didn't the hard line stance on the WoW begin with Prohibition?

[thesometimesaint]

I disagree. So does Hugh Nibley:

 

 

And Elder Brown:

 

 

And Elder Uchtdorf:

 

I never said blind obedience to any commandments including the WoW. To me blind obedience the same as deliberate disobedience.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

[thesometimesaint]

Didn't the hard line stance on the WoW begin with Prohibition?

 

No. It was a gradual implementation of an existing command.

[CV75]

 

I had a question about something mentioned in chapter 11 of "Teachings of Presidents

of the Church - David O. McKay".

 

"President McKay taught and testified that the Word of Wisdom was a commandment 

given by the Lord to bless us both physically and spiritually" (page 103).

 

Disobeying the Word of Wisdom brings harmful physical and spiritual consequences.

 

"There is a substance in tea and coffee which when taken into the human system, tends 

to increase the beating of the heart; which in turn increases the rapidity of the 

circulation of the blood and of breathing. This causes the body to become warmer and

more exhilarated. After a time, however, this temporary enlivenment passes off, and 

the body is really in a greater need of rest and recuperation than it was before the 

beverage was taken. Stimulants are to the body what the lash is to the lagging horse—

it causes a spurt forward but gives no permanent strength or natural nourishment. 

Frequently repetitions of the lash only make the horse more lazy; and the habitual 

use of strong drink, tobacco, tea, and coffee, only tends to make the body weaker and

more dependent upon the stimulants to which it is addicted. The Lord has said in 

unmistakable words that these things are not good for man. Science declares the same. 

God’s word alone should be sufficient for every true Latter-day Saint" (page 104).

 

Is caffeine the substance that Latter-day Saints are commanded to avoid?  If yes, has 

any General Conference talk or Ensign magazine ever told members to also avoid Coke, 

Pepsi, GingerAle, etc?

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

No, just tea and coffee ("hot drinks" from the scripture). While "God’s word alone should be sufficient for every true Latter-day Saint," President McKay had reason to try and get a threshold number of his audience to listen on its own level by explaining it in these terms and using his own examples.

[JLHPROF]

Didn't the hard line stance on the WoW begin with Prohibition?

Well, it started with Heber J. Grant, which I suppose was during the prohibition era.

Edited January 6, 2014 by JLHPROF

[JLHPROF]

I disagree. So does Hugh Nibley:

 

"There's no office in the Church that qualifies the holder to give the official interpretation of the Church. We're to read the scriptures for ourselves, as guided by the Spirit.

Joseph Smith himself often disagreed with various of his brethren on different points, yet he never cracked down on them, saying they'd better change this or that, or else. He disagreed with Parley P. Pratt on a number of things, and also with Brigham Young on various things."

http://maxwellinstit...103&chapid=1154

 

I love this fact from Church history.  I know that even down to as recently as 20 years ago the GA's had differing beliefs on doctrine.  Somewhere recently they've become much more homogenized as a group.  I personally would prefer to see them disagree on points of doctrine occasionally.  For me at least, it would breed more confidence rather than less.

 

And the important point in this quote is not that we don't have to take their word or that we can still find out for ourselves.  The important one is that nobody, not even President Monson, should have the right to set an "official interpretation" for the Church on a piece of scriptures, and that includes the WoW.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I had a question about something mentioned in chapter 11 of "Teachings of Presidents

of the Church - David O. McKay".

 

"President McKay taught and testified that the Word of Wisdom was a commandment 

given by the Lord to bless us both physically and spiritually" (page 103).

 

Disobeying the Word of Wisdom brings harmful physical and spiritual consequences.

 

"There is a substance in tea and coffee which when taken into the human system, tends 

to increase the beating of the heart; which in turn increases the rapidity of the 

circulation of the blood and of breathing. This causes the body to become warmer and

more exhilarated. After a time, however, this temporary enlivenment passes off, and 

the body is really in a greater need of rest and recuperation than it was before the 

beverage was taken. Stimulants are to the body what the lash is to the lagging horse—

it causes a spurt forward but gives no permanent strength or natural nourishment. 

Frequently repetitions of the lash only make the horse more lazy; and the habitual 

use of strong drink, tobacco, tea, and coffee, only tends to make the body weaker and

more dependent upon the stimulants to which it is addicted. The Lord has said in 

unmistakable words that these things are not good for man. Science declares the same. 

God’s word alone should be sufficient for every true Latter-day Saint" (page 104).

 

Is caffeine the substance that Latter-day Saints are commanded to avoid?  If yes, has 

any General Conference talk or Ensign magazine ever told members to also avoid Coke, 

Pepsi, GingerAle, etc?

 

Thanks,

Jim

We are not children, we should be mature enough to know the need to obey the "spirit of the law"...and President Hickley did address caffeine. Few listen.

[Kenngo1969]

Whatever the physical benefits of obeying the Word of Wisdom, the harm for Latter-day Saints in disobeying the Word of Wisdom is chiefly spiritual in nature (see the last four verses of Section 89), because such disobedience entails breaking one or more covenants to obey it, whether the covenant we made to do so at baptism, or whether the covenant we made to do so in the Temple if we have been endowed (or both).

Edited January 6, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[Brian 2.0]

The church has disavowed all theories and explanations as to why we can't drink coffee and tea, including the anti-caffeine statements of past leaders, but it has not disavowed the ban on coffee and tea itself.

Sorry...... Couldn't resist.

[maxrep12]

I have said many times, that the Word of Wisdom is the most poorly interpreted and poorly followed piece of divine instruction.

Really, we just need to read it and stop overthinking it.

 

1. Is it a commandment? "not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days"

So it is the will of God, but it is not a direct commandment.

 

2. What is actually forbidden?

Alcohol - inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

Strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies. (Identified with wine, so liquor)

Tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle

Hot drinks are not for the body or belly (no specification as to tea, coffee or any ingredient, just temperature)

 

3. What is actually recommended?

All wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man

Herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof

Flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;  And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit

 

 

Really, all this debate over caffeine, coffee, tea, energy drinks or chocolate are completely irrelevant to the Word of Wisdom.  The scripture says what it says and that is all God has said on the matter.  We either follow it or we don't.  And picking and choosing which parts we focus on is not following it.

And as for the harm, well, the actual harm is the loss of the blessing and promise:

Refreshing.

 

I think that the WoW has become a target of rule inflation over time, maybe in the same manner as dress codes.

[thatjimguy]

 

"There is a substance in tea and coffee which when taken into the human system, tends 

to increase the beating of the heart; which in turn increases the rapidity of the 

circulation of the blood and of breathing. This causes the body to become warmer and

more exhilarated. After a time, however, this temporary enlivenment passes off, and 

the body is really in a greater need of rest and recuperation than it was before the 

beverage was taken.

 

 

I don't see how anyone can read this and not directly think the whole thing is about caffine.

[Kenngo1969]

The church has disavowed all theories and explanations as to why we can't drink coffee and tea, including the anti-caffeine statements of past leaders, but it has not disavowed the ban on coffee and tea itself.

Sorry...... Couldn't resist.

Good point, even tongue-in-cheek.

[thesometimesaint]

Although the Word of Wisdom was received on 27 February 1833, its acceptance by individual members of the Church was gradual. On 9 September 1851, some eighteen years after it was given, the Patriarch to the Church, John Smith, delivered a talk in general conference on the Word of Wisdom. During his address, President Brigham Young arose and proposed that all Saints formally covenant to abstain from tea, coffee, tobacco, whiskey, and “all things mentioned in the Word of Wisdom” (“Minutes of the General Conference,” Millennial Star, 1 Feb. 1852, p. 35). The motion was accepted unanimously and became binding as a commandment for all Church members thereafter.

[thesometimesaint]

Well, it started with Heber J. Grant, which I suppose was during the prohibition era.

 

1851 was a little before the administration of President Grant.