Redemption From Spiritual Death

[theplains]

I had a few questions about something mentioned on pages 39-40 of "Mine Errand from

the Lord" by Boyd K. Packer.

 

He said, "But redemption from spiritual death, from hell, is another matter. For this, there

are conditions set. There are requirements established which are as eternal and absolute

as the laws of mercy and justice themselves. Nevertheless, the way was opened for us to

become clean once more and to be eligible to return to the presence of God if we will. Our

redemption from spiritual death can be worked out only under the conditions which God

has established, beginning with faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and repentance. Covenants

and ordinances are required".

 

Is hell outer darkness?

 

Is the above statement by Mr. Packer in "redemption from spiritual death" equal to Nephi's

"saved by grace after all we can do"?

 

Does one experience spiritual death when that person has failed to do all they can do?

How does one know when they have succeeded or failed to do all they can do? Is it too

late for the person who realizes they have failed?

 

Thanks,

Jim

[CV75]

 

I had a few questions about something mentioned on pages 39-40 of "Mine Errand from

the Lord" by Boyd K. Packer.

 

He said, "But redemption from spiritual death, from hell, is another matter. For this, there

are conditions set. There are requirements established which are as eternal and absolute

as the laws of mercy and justice themselves. Nevertheless, the way was opened for us to

become clean once more and to be eligible to return to the presence of God if we will. Our

redemption from spiritual death can be worked out only under the conditions which God

has established, beginning with faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and repentance. Covenants

and ordinances are required".

 

Is hell outer darkness?

 

Is the above statement by Mr. Packer in "redemption from spiritual death" equal to Nephi's

"saved by grace after all we can do"?

 

Does one experience spiritual death when that person has failed to do all they can do?

How does one know when they have succeeded or failed to do all they can do? Is it too

late for the person who realizes they have failed?

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

My understanding is that spiritual death or hell is spiritual separation from God and can occur in degrees. Outer darkness would be an extreme degree; the telestial kingdom less extreme and the condition can be of lesser and lesser severity until we can abide in His presence. Spiritual death is expressed in immortality by the degree of glory we attain. It is expressed in mortality by the degree of companionship we enjoy of the Holy Spirit.

 

Any kind of redemption is some kind of saved condition, and I believe both spiritual and physical redemption are dependent upon the Lord’s grace. In the physical redemption, there currently isn’t much we can do to be resurrected since that determination was made in the war in Heaven. In the spiritual redemption, there are the covenants and ordinances (and their effects upon us, to the degree we permit them) as Elder Packer indicated.

 

Does one experience spiritual death when that person has failed to do all they can do? Yes.

How does one know when they have succeeded or failed to do all they can do? They look at the direction they are going and if they are improving, and honestly want to improve, they can rest assured they are doing all they can do. Is it too late for the person who realizes they have failed? No. There is a talk about this in the recent General Conference.  See http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/10/you-can-do-it-now?lang=eng

[JLHPROF]

My understanding is that the kind of spiritual death mentioned here (aka Hell) is not actually "The Spiritual Death" or the Second Death.

 

That is reserved for perdition - the death of the spiritual elements being the same as the death of the physical elements, a return to native elements as it was once said, or a loss of identity.  From this there is no redemption.

 

This "spiritual death" mentioned in this article is a more poetic turn of phrase for the loss of God's spirit and being thrust into hell/outer darkness.

[teddyaware]

 

I had a few questions about something mentioned on pages 39-40 of "Mine Errand from

the Lord" by Boyd K. Packer.

 

He said, "But redemption from spiritual death, from hell, is another matter. For this, there

are conditions set. There are requirements established which are as eternal and absolute

as the laws of mercy and justice themselves. Nevertheless, the way was opened for us to

become clean once more and to be eligible to return to the presence of God if we will. Our

redemption from spiritual death can be worked out only under the conditions which God

has established, beginning with faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and repentance. Covenants

and ordinances are required".

 

Is hell outer darkness?

 

Is the above statement by Mr. Packer in "redemption from spiritual death" equal to Nephi's

"saved by grace after all we can do"?

 

Does one experience spiritual death when that person has failed to do all they can do?

How does one know when they have succeeded or failed to do all they can do? Is it too

late for the person who realizes they have failed?

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

 

The Lord is much more interested in a continual process spiritual growth and progress for His earthly children than He is for us to reach some impossible to obtain threshold of perfect compliance and activity. Though all throughout this process we remain imperfect, He wants us to be true and faithful to the degree of grace and knowledge we have already obtained from Him. And if we remain true and faithful, He will elevate us to higher and ever higher states of grace, knowledge and spiritual empowerment . Even Christ Himself grew spiritually in this fashion, for we read: 

 

12 And I, John, saw that he received not of the fulness at the first, but received grace for grace;

13 And he received not of the fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fulness;

14 And thus he was called the Son of God, because he received not of the fulness at the first. (D&C 93)

 

So even the Lord Himself grew one step at a time and wasn't expected to 'run' faster that He was able at any given time in His process of spiritual progress on earth. And the sons and daughters of Christ are commanded to follow in His footsteps:

 

19 I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.

20 For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace. (D&C 93) 

 

So the Lord expects us to grow from one level of spiritual grace and empowerment to another, in a realistic process of spiritual growth. The Lord does not expect us to accomplish more than our present level of spiritual capacitation allows us to do (although it is true that there are times when great strides of progression in the Spirit can be made all at once if one has enough faith and integrity). 

 

Apparently, the time will never come when we can feel we have done all we can do. Even the exemplarily righteous and faithful Nephi felt at times He had let himself and the Lord down. Read his words for yourself:

 

17 Nevertheless, notwithstanding the great goodness of the Lord, in showing me his great and marvelous works, my heart exclaimeth: O wretched man that I am! Yea, my heart sorroweth because of my flesh; my soul grieveth because of mine iniquities.

18 I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me.

19 And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins; nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted.

 

Most interestingly, even the Brother of Jared -- who so many point to as a prime exemplar of such near perfect righteousness that he received the sure promise of eternal life by the Second Comforter -- was feeling very unworthy just before he saw the finger of the Lord and was immediately thereafter received personally by Him and sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise unto life eternal. Take a look at his prayer just prior to his mighty epiphany and tell me if it sounds like he thought he had done all he could do: 

 

2 O Lord, thou hast said that we must be encompassed about by the floods. Now behold, O Lord, and do not be angry with thy servant because of his weakness before thee; for we know that thou art holy and dwellest in the heavens, and that we are unworthy before thee; because of the fall our natures have become evil continually; nevertheless, O Lord, thou hast given us a commandment that we must call upon thee, that from thee we may receive according to our desires.

3 Behold, O Lord, thou hast smitten us because of our iniquity, and hast driven us forth, and for these many years we have been in the wilderness; nevertheless, thou hast been merciful unto us. O Lord, look upon me in pity, and turn away thine anger from this thy people, and suffer not that they shall go forth across this raging deep in darkness; but behold these things which I have molten out of the rock. (Ether 3)

 

So no, it doesn't look like there will ever come a time when we will feel confident we have done enough. That's why after doing all the good we can do, it's still only the grace of Christ that saves us. The best we can do is to remain steadfast, true and faithful as we grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord. And remember, even the works of righteousness we do are only made possible by the gifts and powers of the Spirit of God. That's why we can never boast of our own righteousness, because in the end our righteousness comes from God. And so we read:

 

24 And now I speak unto all the ends of the earth—that if the day cometh that the power and gifts of God shall be done away among you, it shall be because of unbelief.

25 And wo be unto the children of men if this be the case; for there shall be none that doeth good among you, no not one. For if there be one among you that doeth good, he shall work by the power and gifts of God. (Moroni 10)

 

So even our works of righteousness are in the end the works of God Himself. Our job is to grow in the grace and knowledge of God and endure in this blessed process of spiritual growth and progression to the end.

Edited November 10, 2013 by teddyaware

[theplains]

Is it too late for the person who realizes they have failed? No. There is a talk about this in the recent General Conference.  See http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/10/you-can-do-it-now?lang=eng

 

Thank you for all your insight.

 

Jim