Startling New Church Video

[Robert F. Smith]

Wrong Roads and Revelations:

http://www.lds.org/new-era/2005/07/wrong-roads-and-revelation?lang=eng&query=Wrong+roads+and+revelations

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"He continued, “The Lord has taught us an important lesson today. Because we were prompted to take the road to the left, we quickly discovered which one was the right one. When we turned around and got on the right road, I was able to travel along its many unfamiliar twists and turnoffs perfectly confident I was headed in the right direction.

“If we had started on the right road, we might have driven for 30 minutes or so, become uneasy with the unfamiliar surroundings, and been tempted to turn back. If we had done that, we would have discovered the dead-end so late that it would have been too dark to find our way back in totally unfamiliar territory.”

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Also see the comment on youtube about the actors and the truck.

You got the story backward, Tiki.

[cdowis]

The comments here are very insightful.

 

I remember a discussion I had with a religion professor at BYU, where he said that the Lord would guide us in everything that we do.  I disagree with him, that He wants us to learn how to figure out things for ourselves.

 

In this particular case, the Lord gave him an experience that He knew would eventually be related to the entire church by an apostle.  And I think this apostle is still trying to contemplate its deeper lessons and meaning.

[Freedom]

The comments here are very insightful.

 

I remember a discussion I had with a religion professor at BYU, where he said that the Lord would guide us in everything that we do.  I disagree with him, that He wants us to learn how to figure out things for ourselves.

 

In this particular case, the Lord gave him an experience that He knew would eventually be related to the entire church by an apostle.  And I think this apostle is still trying to contemplate its deeper lessons and meaning.

Perhaps it is a matter of semantics, but I distinguish between guiding and telling. An effective teacher will let us figure things out for ourselves with gentle guidance. A poor teacher will tell us the answers. Sometimes as parents when a child is learning to read, we get impatient and read the difficult words for our children rather than guiding them by helping with pronunciation or pointing out a letter that they missed. My son was installing a door once and was using a certain method to measure. I tried to advise him but rather than get into an argument I encouraged him to try his method. It didn't work but there was little effort involved in correcting it. Now he knows, after learning for himself and through gentle guidance how to property install a door.

[Thinking]

God plans these things in advance you know. He's a clever one.

 

Or maybe Elder Holland just took the wrong road.

[MorningStar]

Maybe they were meant to learn that they should be prepared and bring a map?    Years ago when my husband and I were newlyweds, taking a wrong turn was one of the best thing we ever did.  We had printed out directions that the military had given us from Texas to Utah, but they were confusing.  After we took a wrong turn, we went through a gorgeous area and eventually crossed the Rio Grande Canyon.  We just had to pull over and look at the view, which was amazing.  It's a deep, black canyon and we had never seen anything like it.  After that, we located a map and were able to find a route that would get us where we needed to go without going all the way back.  One of my favorite memories.

 

We also read Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus during the drive.   

[stemelbow]

I don't get this type of thing.  It's been bothering me lately.  Why does it matter?  They would have found their way even if they took the wrong road without any harm at all.  It seems like God should just ignore this and stick to answering us on important stuff or intentionally mislead us as it seems what happened here (unless of course you don't think God had any hand it in at all and they were simply mistaken), teaching us the lesson we don't bother Him with junk like this. 

 

Some time ago I was a leader for the young men and we had a joint activity at the park with the young women.  We played some game.  When it was over a young man said he lost his phone out on the open grass field.  I was like, "no problem, we'll go out and find it."  The YWs leader stopped us all and made us all pray together to find it.  Then we went out and found it sitting in the grass right the middle of where our game was played.  Miracle. 

 

Paint me cynical and stupid but I don't get this mindset.  I've driven to different areas and have taken the wrong road.  I've never suffered for anything because of it. 

[changed]

I love this vid, and I love that it came from an all-too-human apostle.  As a parent, I've used the same tactic on my kids - let them have the hot sauce (instead of arguing with them that they will not like it)... my grandfather gave a cigarette to my aunt when she was 5yo and asked for one, she never asked for one again .  It's a wonderful feeling to know you are on the "right road" and I agree that that knowledge comes with experience. 

[altersteve]

I thought that was beautiful.

[altersteve]

I don't get this type of thing.  It's been bothering me lately.  Why does it matter?  They would have found their way even if they took the wrong road without any harm at all.  It seems like God should just ignore this and stick to answering us on important stuff or intentionally mislead us as it seems what happened here (unless of course you don't think God had any hand it in at all and they were simply mistaken), teaching us the lesson we don't bother Him with junk like this. 

 

Some time ago I was a leader for the young men and we had a joint activity at the park with the young women.  We played some game.  When it was over a young man said he lost his phone out on the open grass field.  I was like, "no problem, we'll go out and find it."  The YWs leader stopped us all and made us all pray together to find it.  Then we went out and found it sitting in the grass right the middle of where our game was played.  Miracle. 

 

Paint me cynical and stupid but I don't get this mindset.  I've driven to different areas and have taken the wrong road.  I've never suffered for anything because of it. 

They didn't just get confirmation that the left road was the correct one. They learned something about God that day, that he truly does care about us. And they drew a little bit closer to him in the process. Asking him about trivial matters like "do I go left or right?" does not bother him; he LOVES it when we come to him with things like this, and he LOVES answering us. Like Elder Holland noted in the video, he is, after all, our Father. It's not just things relating to our ultimate salvation that he cares about, it's the little things too. He cares about every single aspect of our lives, and very deeply too, because he just wants us to be happy. He wants us to feel the happiness that comes from partaking of the sacrament, for example, but he also loves it when we appreciate the little things, like the smell of a freshly cut lawn.

 

And besides that, one thing I've learned about God over the last few months, and that I keep on being reminded of consistently, is that he gets a huge kick out of surprising us. He truly enjoys answering prayers in ways and at times that we least expect. And I think that makes us appreciate those answers even more.

[cdowis]

>he gets a huge kick out of surprising us.

 

An interesting insight.  I remember as a young man praying that I would have alot of money when I was retired.  I got a positive answer, but now that that time has come, it came in a very surprising form -- I have the health and job skills to find work in my senior years.

[CV75]

Wrong Roads

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNQC-_srxH8

 

 

Elder Holland recounts an experience with his son regarding an answer to prayer.  But it's not what you think it is.

 

Before I make a comment, I want to see what you think.

Thnak you for sharing that!

 

Here's what I think: God sees the scope and extent of our circumstances and uses them to teach and then confirm to us the right path. Because He sees ahead what we do not, there is an element of Fatherly protection in His approach.

 

In Elder Holland’s example, God saw that the incorrect road only went a short distance, and that the travelers would not be so foolish as to continue past a dead end. It was a good way for Him to reveal, and for them to conclude on their own agency, which road would safely take them home without feeling like or worry that they were guessing until they came to a recognizable landmark. In doing this, He gave them the gift of father-son time by eliminating the preoccupation with finding their way home, and they could enjoy the “present” since all things were now before them. He gave Brother Holland a revelation on how he works, and he was able to teach his son a great lesson in the moment. The spiritual growth from this experience has obviously lasted a lifetime.

[stemelbow]

They didn't just get confirmation that the left road was the correct one. They learned something about God that day, that he truly does care about us. And they drew a little bit closer to him in the process. Asking him about trivial matters like "do I go left or right?" does not bother him; he LOVES it when we come to him with things like this, and he LOVES answering us. Like Elder Holland noted in the video, he is, after all, our Father. It's not just things relating to our ultimate salvation that he cares about, it's the little things too. He cares about every single aspect of our lives, and very deeply too, because he just wants us to be happy. He wants us to feel the happiness that comes from partaking of the sacrament, for example, but he also loves it when we appreciate the little things, like the smell of a freshly cut lawn.

 

And besides that, one thing I've learned about God over the last few months, and that I keep on being reminded of consistently, is that he gets a huge kick out of surprising us. He truly enjoys answering prayers in ways and at times that we least expect. And I think that makes us appreciate those answers even more.

 

I'm sure you do know it, but I have no idea how anyone can know the mind of God so well. 

 

There are people walking this earth that seem to be nothing more than absolutely miserable.  And many who have lived who lived nothing but misery.  OFten these people didn't/don't even know there is a God.  Did He care about every single aspect of each of their lives too?  And if so, why did/does He seem disinterested in their happiness but seems supremely attentive to your happiness? 

 

I would suspect that God will reward us all as He sees fit.  He'll find a way to make up for the misery that people lived here on this earth.  I simply don't know that He's interested in every little aspect of each of our lives though.  I don't see how that would be, otherwise there'd be more people who are happy, or at least say they are happy. 

 

I admit what you say and describe of God and reality is just very foreign to me.  I guess that's why these types of stories seem to mean very little to me.  So, I guess I am just a stupid and cynical person.  Ah well.  Can't help it, I guess. 

[bluebell]

 

 

Paint me cynical and stupid but I don't get this mindset.  I've driven to different areas and have taken the wrong road.  I've never suffered for anything because of it. 

 

I think that's a problem that a lot of us have.  I would imagine that there are times we are saved from disaster, but because we are saved, we never know the pain and horror that would have been if God had not intervened...  All those nights that we pray, sometimes absentmindedly, that we'll be safe from harm, and then we don't give it a second thought when we actually are, kind of thing. 

 

We expect to be safe from harm, so when it happens, we don't automatically assume that God had anything to do with it. 

 

And because we don't know what we don't know-because God doesn't provide us with a glimpse of the alternate course our life could actually have taken-we say things like 'I've never suffered for anything because I haven't turned to God when I needed guidance'.

 

When we say things like that though, and use it as a judgment against someone who does ask for guidance, we assume something that we have no right to assume.  We assume that just because we've made it out of certain situations without asking for help, that everyone would be just as fine as we were if they did the same in a similar situation.  And we also assume that God had no hand in our safety.  We just don't know that.

 

We have no way of knowing what would have happened if Elder Holland and his son had not had the experience that they had that day. 

[CV75]

 

A very interesting insight , which also is additionally fascinating to consider when applied to the institutional Church. Maybe one can apply it as a suggested reference to policies and positions held by the Church in the past that are perhaps viewed by some as the brethren as having been allowed so that the leadership and membership could learn for sure by their experience that it was definitely the WRONG Path,  leading to a dead-end, and, to use President Uchtdorf's words, "not in harmony with our values, principles or doctrine".

 

It presents a "Yes, we know today with firm conviction that the path, understanding, and policy was ultimately the wrong way, but we don't regret having gone down that path, and now we know by experience even stronger that the New Path is the right one. We are grateful for having gone down the wrong path to understand with greater clarity today the True Path. This is a form of revelation."

 

What's very interesting about this is that it somewhat parallels some of the thoughts I expressed a little over a year ago as to how I might view the life of Brigham Young as modeling a form of revelation that clarified by contrast of experience the true nature of God.  See my Review and Musings on Brigham Young: Pioneer Prophet.

 

Here's some of my thoughts from that post:

 

 

If this is the case, such “wrong” paths are no more mistaken than the Fall (which was literally a dead end) since it clearly demonstrated how we have to choose to turn around and get onto the path to Exaltation. And in its own right, remaining forever innocent in the Garden of Eden might have been even more of a dead end / wrong path.

 

So, in relation to the other thread charging the Church with specific mistakes, it could be argued that none of these were mistakes but inspired prayer-answered direction designed to teach us te highest laws possible.

 

And in relation to predicting how the Church will correct purported current mistakes, we can confidently say it doesn’t matter how far the saints travel down this so-called incorrect path, because the Lord will not lead us astray, and He this is how He teaches His people.

 

Sustaining the Brethren is always the right way to go, for this is how God teaches us!

Edited November 8, 2013 by CV75

[stemelbow]

I think that's a problem that a lot of us have.  I would imagine that there are times we are saved from disaster, but because we are saved, we never know the pain and horror that would have been if God had not intervened...  All those nights that we pray, sometimes absentmindedly, that we'll be safe from harm, and then we don't give it a second thought when we actually are, kind of thing. 

 

We expect to be safe from harm, so when it happens, we don't automatically assume that God had anything to do with it. 

 

And because we don't know what we don't know-because God doesn't provide us with a glimpse of the alternate course our life could actually have taken-we say things like 'I've never suffered for anything because I haven't turned to God when I needed guidance'.

 

When we say things like that though, and use it as a judgment against someone who does ask for guidance, we assume something that we have no right to assume.  We assume that just because we've made it out of certain situations without asking for help, that everyone would be just as fine as we were if they did the same in a similar situation.  And we also assume that God had no hand in our safety.  We just don't know that.

 

We have no way of knowing what would have happened if Elder Holland and his son had not had the experience that they had that day. 

 

So if we're not saved from horror and misery is it because we made some bad choice in the past or something?  We didn't pray when we came to a fork in the road? 

 

Are we not supposed to gain some supremely magnificent lessons through our suffering?  or are we supposed to be saved from suffering at every turn?  People suffer.  Why aren't we all suffering?  Why is it we assume God saves us from suffering when we simply don't know that the suffering could have been the better benefit to us? 

[altersteve]

I'm sure you do know it, but I have no idea how anyone can know the mind of God so well. 

 

There are people walking this earth that seem to be nothing more than absolutely miserable.  And many who have lived who lived nothing but misery.  OFten these people didn't/don't even know there is a God.  Did He care about every single aspect of each of their lives too?  And if so, why did/does He seem disinterested in their happiness but seems supremely attentive to your happiness? 

 

I would suspect that God will reward us all as He sees fit.  He'll find a way to make up for the misery that people lived here on this earth.  I simply don't know that He's interested in every little aspect of each of our lives though.  I don't see how that would be, otherwise there'd be more people who are happy, or at least say they are happy. 

 

I admit what you say and describe of God and reality is just very foreign to me.  I guess that's why these types of stories seem to mean very little to me.  So, I guess I am just a stupid and cynical person.  Ah well.  Can't help it, I guess. 

Us being unhappy does not mean God doesn't care. You're right that he will make up for the misery, pain, and sadness we've lived through in mortality, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about every little aspect of our lives. It breaks his heart to see us sad or in pain; sometimes he just chooses not to do something about it for the time being. I'm sure has a good reason for that. But the fact is, it's not as black and white as you're making it out to be.

 

As for the video, maybe God answered their prayer the way he did partly because he knew it would lead to the Church eventually making this video, and he knew that video would help increase the faith and bless the lives of many of his other children. He tends to plan for things in advance like that a lot (see the lost 116 pages as an example).

 

Food for thought.

 

Also: I'm not claiming to know the mind of God. This is just what I believe about him. Through all the experiences I've had and things I've learned throughout my life, that's the picture of God I've painted in my mind. Maybe it's completely wrong, but that understanding of my Heavenly Father, that he cares deeply about every aspect of our lives so very much that we can't even comprehend it, is where I'm at right now.

Edited November 8, 2013 by altersteve

[cinepro]

As others have pointed out, while the Hollands were faced with two choices, either choice would have resulted in a faith-promoting story.  

 

Even if they had chosen the "right" road, doubted, then turned around and gone back to the wrong road, discovered their error and then had to try and go back, it would be a tremendous story.  

 

(Alternate Universe Elder Holland)

 

"Brothers and Sisters, when faced with two paths, we had prayed.  We had prayed and received our answer.  We recognized the spirit and knew what it was.  And yet we doubted.  As the sun went down, we strayed from our conviction, and forgot the Lord that we knew.  We turned around, and discovered too late that the other road was the wrong one.  Unable to find the correct path again in the dark, we did the only thing that we could.  We huddled together in the desert night, and upon the sun's rising, continued our journey.  

 

We arrived home late but safely, much to the relief of our family.  But we carried with us from that day a knowledge that the Lord will NOT lead us astray, and it is folly to ignore His voice."

Edited November 8, 2013 by cinepro

[cinepro]

(Alternate Universe Elder Holland 2)

 

"As we journeyed down that divinely appointed road, the scenery was unfamiliar.  At times, we may have doubted the choice we had made.  What if this road was not the correct choice after all?

 

But one thing that was not unfamiliar was the voice of the Lord.  As had Lehi in the wilderness.  As had Moses, and Joshua.  We had heard it, and knew the course we should take.  We did not waver.  I don't know where that other road may have led, but I do know that if we follow that road that the Lord has appointed unto us, we will arrive home, safely."

Edited November 8, 2013 by cinepro

[altersteve]

Why aren't we all suffering?

We are. We all have things causing us pain in our lives, no matter how small. All our hearts are breaking in some way.

[strappinglad]

Ask the Philipinos if there is any type of sliding suffering scale or does an inconvenience = a disaster. Perhaps our 'god' is really great at supervision and their 'god' is less hands on. It occurs to me that the first of the ten commandments might have a different meaning than the one I've accepted all my life.

[bluebell]

Ask the Philipinos if there is any type of sliding suffering scale or does an inconvenience = a disaster. Perhaps our 'god' is really great at supervision and their 'god' is less hands on. It occurs to me that the first of the ten commandments might have a different meaning than the one I've accepted all my life.

 

The saints have suffered.  Everyone suffers.

 

Just because God sometimes tempers our suffering and sometimes lets us feel the full weight of it, does not mean that he is not involved.

 

I have no doubt that there are faithful Philipinos who are suffering because of the storm who still do not doubt the love of God, or His supervision in their lives. 

[bluebell]

oops.

Edited November 11, 2013 by bluebell

[bluebell]

So if we're not saved from horror and misery is it because we made some bad choice in the past or something?  We didn't pray when we came to a fork in the road? 

 

Are we not supposed to gain some supremely magnificent lessons through our suffering?  or are we supposed to be saved from suffering at every turn?  People suffer.  Why aren't we all suffering?  Why is it we assume God saves us from suffering when we simply don't know that the suffering could have been the better benefit to us?

I'm sorry if I was confusing.

My words were meant for those times when it is not God's will that we suffer.

I don't assume that God saves us from all suffering. I do believe that He does save us from some of it though. To me, that is what a testimony of God is-the belief that He cares and is a part of our lives.

[stemelbow]

Altersteve,

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Us being unhappy does not mean God doesn't care.

 

I agree.  That's basically my point.

 

 You're right that he will make up for the misery, pain, and sadness we've lived through in mortality, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about every little aspect of our lives. It breaks his heart to see us sad or in pain; sometimes he just chooses not to do something about it for the time being.

 

My assumption has been, it doesn't necessarily break His heart to see us in pain.  He sees the pain we have to suffer through as something better for us in the end.  So He lets it be.  If it broke His heart and we didn't need it, then He would put a stop to it, I'm guessing. 

 

I'm sure has a good reason for that. But the fact is, it's not as black and white as you're making it out to be.

 

I thought I was the one making it not black and white at all. 

 

As for the video, maybe God answered their prayer the way he did partly because he knew it would lead to the Church eventually making this video, and he knew that video would help increase the faith and bless the lives of many of his other children. He tends to plan for things in advance like that a lot (see the lost 116 pages as an example).

 

I hate to say it, but there could be an infinite amount of videos that would be better in terms of increasing faith than this, I imagine.  Indeed, there's a chance this video might hinder the cause of faith.

 

Food for thought.

 

Also: I'm not claiming to know the mind of God. This is just what I believe about him. Through all the experiences I've had and things I've learned throughout my life, that's the picture of God I've painted in my mind. Maybe it's completely wrong, but that understanding of my Heavenly Father, that he cares deeply about every aspect of our lives so very much that we can't even comprehend it, is where I'm at right now.

 

k.  Thanks.

[stemelbow]

I'm sorry if I was confusing.

My words were meant for those times when it is not God's will that we suffer.

I don't assume that God saves us from all suffering. I do believe that He does save us from some of it though. To me, that is what a testimony of God is-the belief that He cares and is a part of our lives.

 

It makes me curious if God stops our suffering because He knows we can't take it, but if we were able to take it He'd let it be because we can actually learn and grow from it.  Kind of an interesting thought.