Wanting The Priesthood.....or Not

[Paloma]

....and I hope you didn't think I was speaking from a defensive posture.  As I've very much approved of the things you've had to say.  There are some who try to offer rather fanciful assertions about the eternal reasoning behind gender roles, and for me, most of these are put in the recycle bin.  But at the end of the day, some things are the way they are, because that's just the way it is. We can either take it or leave........for now.

Thanks, Senator. No, I didn't think you were being defensive ... just realistic!

And I want to add that I always enjoy your posts!  

[jkwilliams]

If my unit leader called me (as a man) in and told me I was to be set apart as a Releif Society President, I would say, "I'd have to pray about it," and then get a second opinion.

I'm talking about a church-wide change. If, for example, the prophet proclaimed that he had received a revelation that men can now serve as Relief Society presidents, and your bishop called you, would you say no? Would you have to pray about it?

 

If my unit leader called me (as a man) in and told me I was to no longer hold the priesthood, I would ask to be educated about due process and then get a second opinion anyway.

Again, that doesn't really apply to what I was talking about.

[CV75]

I'm talking about a church-wide change. If, for example, the prophet proclaimed that he had received a revelation that men can now serve as Relief Society presidents, and your bishop called you, would you say no? Would you have to pray about it?

 

Again, that doesn't really apply to what I was talking about.

I'd always have to pray about it, but initially I'd be inclined to accept.

 

Of course it applies to what you're talking about, since, as a matter of new policy, the experience of receiving priesthood office for a woman would be as unusual as having priesthood office revoked for a man--however wonderful (or not) that experience may be for either.

 

Plus, priesthood and priesthood office aren't just offered as options (D&C 84:82), and neither are the recipients just informe that they will be ordained, unless that's part of the new policy, too... Great idea: a non-covenant / no-agency testament!

[webbles]

My understanding is that the "no" answer is based on women not having the option, so my interpretation is that most LDS women don't think it would be right to ask for something they currently cannot have. I think it would be more interesting to ask women what they would do if the prophet suddenly announced that women could be ordained to the priesthood. Would they refuse because they "don't want the priesthood"?

 

From my own experience, I'd say most people, even if they're not actively seeking a priesthood ordination, will accept when their bishop or stake president tells them they need to be ordained. For example, when my stake president called me in and told me I was to be ordained a high priest, my initial thought was that I was too young (I was 32) and there really was no reason for it (I was executive secretary, which does not require one to be a high priest). He told me that it was Heavenly Father's will, so I accepted, and my father ordained me a few weeks later. I didn't really want the ordination, but it didn't occur to me to say no.

 

So, my question is about what women would do in a similar situation. If the bishop or stake president called them in and told them they were to be ordained, would they say, No, I don't want it, or would they accept?

 

I know a woman who has mentioned to me that if the prophet announced that woman would be ordained to the priesthood, she might leave the church.

[JLHPROF]

I know a woman who has mentioned to me that if the prophet announced that woman would be ordained to the priesthood, she might leave the church.

My Uncle said the same thing - that's why I asked if there could be any announcements of changes that could cause others here to doubt.

Edited October 9, 2013 by JLHPROF

[jkwilliams]

I know a woman who has mentioned to me that if the prophet announced that woman would be ordained to the priesthood, she might leave the church.

Although that answer is extreme, that's the question I am asking of the women of the board: If the prophet announced that women would be ordained to the priesthood and your line leaders specifically said you were to be ordained, how would you respond?

1. Accept the ordination.

2. Hesitate and ask the leader for time to pray about whether you should accept.

3. Refuse because you don't want the priesthood.

I honestly would like to know what you think.

[Tacenda]

Although that answer is extreme, that's the question I am asking of the women of the board: If the prophet announced that women would be ordained to the priesthood and your line leaders specifically said you were to be ordained, how would you respond?

1. Accept the ordination.

2. Hesitate and ask the leader for time to pray about whether you should accept.

3. Refuse because you don't want the priesthood.

I honestly would like to know what you think.

I guess it would make me think first how bad off my spiritual side is and maybe work on it, not a bad effect of being asked if I'd like to be ordained, but my initial reaction was, he@# no!

[rongo]

Although that answer is extreme, that's the question I am asking of the women of the board: If the prophet announced that women would be ordained to the priesthood and your line leaders specifically said you were to be ordained, how would you respond?

1. Accept the ordination.

2. Hesitate and ask the leader for time to pray about whether you should accept.

3. Refuse because you don't want the priesthood.

I honestly would like to know what you think.

When I was a bishop, I asked my wife and my women's auxiliary leaders what they thought about women ordination. Every single one said that they would refuse to be ordained. They wouldn't leave the Church over it, but would not let themselves be ordained. This led me to seriously wonder how the "rollout" of women ordination would look. Would it be optional, with just a trickle of "OW" types seeking it?

 

In my experience, the vast majority of women in the Church would not only not want the priesthood, but would refuse it if offered. Aside from the fact that I don't think it would ever happen, no matter what pressure is exerted, I think the Brethren are also aware of most women's reactions and feelings, and that is a factor as well.

[CV75]

your line leaders specifically said you were to be ordained

It simply doesn't work this way, even for men! It runs contrary to covenanting and agency. If people have a problem with priesthood, it is often due to a misunderstanding of these two principles--just check out D&C 84 anad 121.

Edited October 10, 2013 by CV75

[jkwilliams]

When I was a bishop, I asked my wife and my women's auxiliary leaders what they thought about women ordination. Every single one said that they would refuse to be ordained. They wouldn't leave the Church over it, but would not let themselves be ordained. This led me to seriously wonder how the "rollout" of women ordination would look. Would it be optional, with just a trickle of "OW" types seeking it?

 

In my experience, the vast majority of women in the Church would not only not want the priesthood, but would refuse it if offered. Aside from the fact that I don't think it would ever happen, no matter what pressure is exerted, I think the Brethren are also aware of most women's reactions and feelings, and that is a factor as well.

 

I find that fascinating. Did they say why they would refuse?

[Stone holm]

Under current doctrine, a man who refused to be ordained would put his exaltation in jeopardy. If the Priesthood were suddenly offered to the women in this manner, there would probably be similar consequences. I do not believe, however, that will be how the issue gets resolved if there isventually a change.

[rongo]

I find that fascinating. Did they say why they would refuse?

My wife and I went to the temple last night with another couple who used to be in our ward. The wife was my young women's president (she is also the descendant of my ancestor's sixth wife, a 16 year old, while I am from the first wife, who was in her 60s when the younger wife was married. Lots of good-natured kidding over that!   ), and her husband was my elders quorum president. She is one of the women I asked about women ordination.

 

I re-asked both of them, as we sat over ice cream, why they would refuse ordination if it happened. My wife said that, aside from not believing that God wants women to be ordained, she feels a special connection to me receiving access to the priesthood through me, and she can't conceive of not having this connection (and doesn't want it to be otherwise). That was interesting.

 

Our friend said that, with the agitation over it by malcontents, she would consider such a change to be like the affirmative answer over the lost 116 pages: God saying in effect, "Fine. Go ahead and do it." She thinks that hypothetically such an change would be God letting us do it, but not His will.

 

Again, *all* the women I have asked about this unitedly don't want it, and regard these "Ordain Women" types as a foreign type of LDS woman, completely outside of their experience and feelings. Whenever I hear "Ordain Women" sympathizers downplay the polls that have 90% of LDS woman opposing women ordination ("invalid sample size, invalid sampling," etc.), I think of how this completely squares with my own experience. And probably everyone else's, except for maybe Washington D.C. or Marin County.

[Calm]

 she feels a special connection to me receiving access to the priesthood through me, and she can't conceive of not having this connection (and doesn't want it to be otherwise). 

 

I believe this type of experience can make a significant difference.

[jkwilliams]

My wife said that, aside from not believing that God wants women to be ordained, she feels a special connection to me receiving access to the priesthood through me, and she can't conceive of not having this connection (and doesn't want it to be otherwise). That was interesting.

I like that a lot. Thank you for posting that.

 

Our friend said that, with the agitation over it by malcontents, she would consider such a change to be like the affirmative answer over the lost 116 pages: God saying in effect, "Fine. Go ahead and do it." She thinks that hypothetically such an change would be God letting us do it, but not His will.

That makes sense, too, but it suggests that maybe some people believe the prophet would push his personal agenda on God. I hadn't thought of that.

And probably everyone else's, except for maybe Washington D.C. or Marin County.

I can't speak for Marin County, but our ward just outside of Washington, DC, is pretty conservative.

[BlueDreams]

My understanding is that the "no" answer is based on women not having the option, so my interpretation is that most LDS women don't think it would be right to ask for something they currently cannot have. I think it would be more interesting to ask women what they would do if the prophet suddenly announced that women could be ordained to the priesthood. Would they refuse because they "don't want the priesthood"?

 

I don't think that's necessarily and accurate assumption as to why women state no. From what i've seen, it's not about whether it's right to ask or not. For me personally, it has absolutely nothing to do with whether it would be right to ask for something they currently have and more to do if whether I believe that ordination as men have it, is the right choice. I don't...what I read, study, and ponder has led further and further from that conclusion. The hypothetical that you posture doesn't work. If it was offered, I would receive it. But I don't think it should be offered in the first place and the hypothetical is beside the point. 

 

With luv,

BD